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RaZmuShaDoW
Known Hero
The Sync Bug Hunter
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posted July 12, 2006 05:13 PM |
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Quote:
In my opinion giving inocporeal ability to Spectre Dragons will fit the necro town for all kind of batlles. Maybe it could be with less chance - 30%-20% but such abilyty will mske their low hp more acceptable
All the factions have good units and worse units - that's the way it should be. Now you ask Ubi to make the worst Necro unit better just to fit better into the already perfect horde?  And let me guess - the week grouth of this leve 7 creatyre should stay the same? Biggest of all factions? Would't be fear
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What’s the point of being a renegade if you still have to pay taxes?
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 12, 2006 05:21 PM |
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My suggestion would be this:
Take away 1 initiative from Skeleton Arhers, to 9. Give an additional initiative to Spectral Dragons, to 12. I think that would even the scores a bit. If that is not enough, reduce the damage range from Skelli Archers to 1-1. Give extra damage to Vampires or Dragons. That way the race speciality can remain as it is. And I like Necromancy. Perhaps it is the initiative of 10 that allows Skelli Archers to act too frequently?
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ZeroXcuses
Known Hero
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posted July 12, 2006 07:10 PM |
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Well I'll come back since the fanboyism has dissipated.
alcibiades - Are you sure that you realize the magnitude of what you're asking? Nerfing skellie archers would mean having to adjust the entire Necropolis faction to make up for the power loss, which cold mean having to re-evaluate all the other factions, too.
If you have not figured it out already, the "imbaness" of skeleton archers was done quite on purpose.
-The Skill Battle Fury reeks "skele archers" for damage,
-There's that artifact that increases damage by 1; that's not for a lv 7 creature, let me tell you.
-Vitality increases HP by 2; again, that's not for high lv creatures.
Man, Nival knew what they were doing by making Skeleton Archers godly, animate dead a bastard, and all other necro units mediocre at best.
I don't have a problem with this. It's the same way I've been playing Necro for years. You should have seen what I did to my underwear when I found out we were getting ANOTHER ranged unit.
And as for the expense of LV 7 units, some of you look silly complaining about Necro's lv 7 unit when you're now saying that it's neigh impossible to actually deploy upgraded lv 7 units in a multiplayer game. This topic should be closed and we should start the "Necro PWNAGE" topic.
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Plexus22
Known Hero
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posted July 12, 2006 08:45 PM |
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Quote:
And as for the expense of LV 7 units, some of you look silly complaining about Necro's lv 7 unit when you're now saying that it's neigh impossible to actually deploy upgraded lv 7 units in a multiplayer game. This topic should be closed and we should start the "Necro PWNAGE" topic.
Thats part of the problem people are complaining about though......other factions really need their level 7 units while necro lvl 7 units are optional. For necro, no big deal if lvl 7 units arent built...just put the money into something else like converting units but for other factions those lvl 7 units are actually useful and a factor in balancing out the factions. I haven't played too many multiplayer games so I can't really comment on the impact of lvl 7 units in multiplayer but I'm sure that Nival specifically intended for lvl 7 units to play a key role in balancing out the factions and allowing other factions to compete against necro.
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RaZmuShaDoW
Known Hero
The Sync Bug Hunter
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posted July 12, 2006 09:20 PM |
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Quote:
Well I'll come back since the fanboyism has dissipated.
Man, Nival knew what they were doing by making Skeleton Archers godly, animate dead a bastard, and all other necro units mediocre at best.
I don't have a problem with this. It's the same way I've been playing Necro for years. You should have seen what I did to my underwear when I found out we were getting ANOTHER ranged unit.
And as for the expense of LV 7 units, some of you look silly complaining about Necro's lv 7 unit when you're now saying that it's neigh impossible to actually deploy upgraded lv 7 units in a multiplayer game. This topic should be closed and we should start the "Necro PWNAGE" topic.
I bet ZeroXcuses only/mostly plays with Necro? Because you will never understad the ovepowering of the Necro until you counter them with some other race. As I wrote earlier "But all of you who think that this faction is OK try to play with the same level Human player AGAINST Necro with some other race. You will understand."
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Klaital
Known Hero
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posted July 12, 2006 09:49 PM |
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I would personally think best fix for skellie archers would be to do the same thing as they did to assasins, give them ranged penalty and no melee penalty.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 13, 2006 01:23 AM |
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Quote:
alcibiades - Are you sure that you realize the magnitude of what you're asking? Nerfing skellie archers would mean having to adjust the entire Necropolis faction to make up for the power loss, which cold mean having to re-evaluate all the other factions, too.
Yes, I'm entirely aware of what it means. As I said in my previous post, I wan't to nerf the Skeletons in order to make room for improvements on Zombies, Ghosts, Wraiths and Spectral Dragons.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 13, 2006 01:28 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
alcibiades - Are you sure that you realize the magnitude of what you're asking? Nerfing skellie archers would mean having to adjust the entire Necropolis faction to make up for the power loss, which cold mean having to re-evaluate all the other factions, too.
Yes, I'm entirely aware of what it means. As I said in my previous post, I wan't to nerf the Skeletons in order to make room for improvements on Zombies, Ghosts, Wraiths and Spectral Dragons.
There isn't enough to nerf in Skeletons to give ALL those creatures improvements, unless you want the Racial Skill Necromancy completely out of the faction?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 13, 2006 01:32 AM |
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Well, if you took away their ranged ability, that would be a very good step on the way. Tweaking initiative is another likely candidate. As I said quite a number of posts back, I'd like to try the following for an alternative:
Quote:
- Skeletons without ranged ability, but have 50 % damage reduction from ranged attacks (skeletal ability).
- Zombies with ranged ability (but still low initiative)
- Spectres receive 50 % damage reduction from non-magical attacks (modified Incorporeal ability) + regeneration +/- mana drain.
- Vampires remain.
- Liches remain.
- Wraiths gain Death Strike (kill 10% x Wraith Numbers), float and possibly cursing attack.
- Bone Dragons have 50 % damage reduction from ranged attacks (skeletal ability).
- Spectral Dragons receive 50 % damage reduction from non-magical attacks (modified incorporeal ability) + aging ability.
None-magical attacks are melee or ranged attacks not affected by a spell or spell-like effect. Thus, a unit with Divine Strength will ignore the damage reduction, all damaging spells do full damage, a mage's ranged attack will do full damage, and the Cold Steel and Fiery Wrath abilitis will also negate this ability. Spells like Righteous Might or Haste will not affect this ability, however, and neither will abilities like Teleport Assault and Archery.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 13, 2006 01:48 AM |
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Edited by Shauku83 at 01:51, 13 Jul 2006.
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Quote:
Well, if you took away their ranged ability, that would be a very good step on the way. Tweaking initiative is another likely candidate. As I said quite a number of posts back, I'd like to try the following for an alternative:
- Skeletons without ranged ability, but have 50 % damage reduction from ranged attacks (skeletal ability).
- Zombies with ranged ability (but still low initiative)
- Spectres receive 50 % damage reduction from non-magical attacks (modified Incorporeal ability) + regeneration +/- mana drain.
- Vampires remain.
- Liches remain.
- Wraiths gain Death Strike (kill 10% x Wraith Numbers), float and possibly cursing attack.
- Bone Dragons have 50 % damage reduction from ranged attacks (skeletal ability).
- Spectral Dragons receive 50 % damage reduction from non-magical attacks (modified incorporeal ability) + aging ability.
None-magical attacks are melee or ranged attacks not affected by a spell or spell-like effect. Thus, a unit with Divine Strength will ignore the damage reduction, all damaging spells do full damage, a mage's ranged attack will do full damage, and the Cold Steel and Fiery Wrath abilitis will also negate this ability. Spells like Righteous Might or Haste will not affect this ability, however, and neither will abilities like Teleport Assault and Archery.
Yeah. I just think you go over the top, since such radical changes will never get implemented in the game. Modders can ofcource, but I'm quite sure that it will stay on singleplayer level. And that is great too, since that is a big part of the game and if this Necropolis will make someone happy then thats cool
Nevertheless, if something is to be changed by the devs (and perhaps should) it shouldn't change the faction completely. I haven't played nearly enough to know how drastic balancing is needed, but i have a feeling that it isn't much. A simple initiative change can shift the powerbalance inside the faction enough, to keep the essence of the Necromancy as a Racial and to bring the rest of the creatures to the party (namely Dragons).
btw. The skeletal ability fits totally well to bone dragons and skeletons, i liked that one in h4. Skeltons could have it, but Archers have to loose it when upgrading.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 13, 2006 07:34 AM |
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guys, forget about that nonsence. Ubi created upg skellie as a bowman and it will probably NEVER change, since they'd have to do another model, and that didn't happen in any game I can remember. FORGET IT. 
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kreszantas
Adventuring Hero
TOH Coordinator
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posted July 13, 2006 08:51 AM |
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well I think it about time we closed the book on this thread, since it all comes back to the same whining over and over again.
From experience I can tell you there is no way that Nival is going to do such a massive change as your stating aliciblades, that falls under the heading of wishful thinking.
the deficincy is the lack of knowledge on how to play necro, the apperance of a 1 creep rules all faction, lack of different tactics in MP unless you really know how to exploit the map and study all the heroes the same way do would do any other faction.
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Professional Sarcastic, never underestimate the value of truth as being only your point of view.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 13, 2006 10:03 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Well, if you took away their ranged ability, that would be a very good step on the way. Tweaking initiative is another likely candidate. As I said quite a number of posts back, I'd like to try the following for an alternative:
- Skeletons without ranged ability, but have 50 % damage reduction from ranged attacks (skeletal ability).
- Zombies with ranged ability (but still low initiative)
- Spectres receive 50 % damage reduction from non-magical attacks (modified Incorporeal ability) + regeneration +/- mana drain.
- Vampires remain.
- Liches remain.
- Wraiths gain Death Strike (kill 10% x Wraith Numbers), float and possibly cursing attack.
- Bone Dragons have 50 % damage reduction from ranged attacks (skeletal ability).
- Spectral Dragons receive 50 % damage reduction from non-magical attacks (modified incorporeal ability) + aging ability.
None-magical attacks are melee or ranged attacks not affected by a spell or spell-like effect. Thus, a unit with Divine Strength will ignore the damage reduction, all damaging spells do full damage, a mage's ranged attack will do full damage, and the Cold Steel and Fiery Wrath abilitis will also negate this ability. Spells like Righteous Might or Haste will not affect this ability, however, and neither will abilities like Teleport Assault and Archery.
Yeah. I just think you go over the top, since such radical changes will never get implemented in the game. Modders can ofcource, but I'm quite sure that it will stay on singleplayer level. And that is great too, since that is a big part of the game and if this Necropolis will make someone happy then thats cool
Nevertheless, if something is to be changed by the devs (and perhaps should) it shouldn't change the faction completely. I haven't played nearly enough to know how drastic balancing is needed, but i have a feeling that it isn't much. A simple initiative change can shift the powerbalance inside the faction enough, to keep the essence of the Necromancy as a Racial and to bring the rest of the creatures to the party (namely Dragons).
btw. The skeletal ability fits totally well to bone dragons and skeletons, i liked that one in h4. Skeltons could have it, but Archers have to loose it when upgrading.
Sure - I will never expect Nival to implement this. This is purely wishful thinking from my side - and then, something I might try to implement once I get more skilled in Modding and/or the gamers give us some tools like creature editors.
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G3
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 13, 2006 11:50 AM |
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Quote:
guys, forget about that nonsence. Ubi created upg skellie as a bowman and it will probably NEVER change, since they'd have to do another model, and that didn't happen in any game I can remember. FORGET IT.
What I don't get is where do all the bows they need come from? It's not like eg. archers are free or anything.
Raising zombies or even ghosts...now that's much more realistic.
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neoexdeath
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 13, 2006 12:02 PM |
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They can make their bows out of ribs and pieces of intestine 
Who said the game has to be realistic anyway?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 13, 2006 01:01 PM |
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Yeah, I think it's more of a question how the raise a group of distinctively humanoid skeletons from, say, a group of Hell Hounds or Griffins.
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RaZmuShaDoW
Known Hero
The Sync Bug Hunter
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posted July 13, 2006 01:15 PM |
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In this case "realistic" means "realistic for HOMM world". And "logical" also to the standarts of this game world.
I think it's nice then you can feel more logics in various game aspects. Then you can predict the game more and the game in general is more strategic.
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What’s the point of being a renegade if you still have to pay taxes?
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chpr
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 13, 2006 07:50 PM |
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10x for the support doomforge. I also think that it's time to end this topic. As we are all waiting a patch that allows us a cooler multiplayer i don't think there is what more to write about necro strats at this point. However i'd suggest that players who havent played much multiplayer should stop argueing with players who play only multi, i havent even started the campaigns fe.! Just things in multi are HELL DIFFERENT!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 14, 2006 09:14 AM |
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An argument that goes both ways, yes, because single player is totally different from multiplayer as well. But lets rest the case.
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chpr
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 14, 2006 11:11 AM |
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i know, and i dont argue about single peace bro \/
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This thread is pages long: 
