Heroes of Might and Magic Community
please log in.! Register | Today's Posts | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile

<a href="http://www.game-advertising-online.com/" target=_blank>Game Advertising Online</a><br> banner requires iframes

Heroes 1 (Heroes 2 (Heroes 3 (Heroes 4 (Heroes 5 (Heroes 6 ()

Login:     Username:     Password:    
Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Haven Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Haven Faction [ This thread is 23 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 (16) 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ]
DIEGIS
DIEGIS


Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
posted January 07, 2009 05:37 AM

Now, I've red all the thread, and have seen oppinion about haven vs academy.
What skills would be better for Dougal for instance? lets say vs Havez.
Any ideas? And what upgraded creatures to have is the best?
Also, I've seen in the thread that some ppl are spiting the paladins....I think its not a good idea, may be zealots.



____________
dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloucester
bloucester


Famous Hero
MSN can go to hell
posted August 06, 2009 01:22 PM

the three skills i need: (ToE, Dougal)

attack - archery, battle frenzy, retribution
leadership - recruitment, divine guidance, empathy
magic - depends on my opponent - i usually go for LIGHT but dark is nice as well (against inferno for example)

then...
if playing against a might orientated faction like haven, inferno and sylvan, i take defence
in all other cases - luck - i want to hit'em hard

fifth skill - luck if 4th is defence, otherwise i might take enlightenment, logistics, sorcery... it depends on the map really

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted August 06, 2009 01:38 PM

Quote:
Now, I've red all the thread, and have seen oppinion about haven vs academy.
What skills would be better for Dougal for instance? lets say vs Havez.
Any ideas? And what upgraded creatures to have is the best?
Also, I've seen in the thread that some ppl are spiting the paladins....I think its not a good idea, may be zealots.



Splitting Paladins is very useful against Dark users since it means twice as many Lay Hands. Zealot splitting can also be useful, but Cleansing is less reliable and costs mana.
Personally, I often split of some Vindicators to be Squires to shield my Crossbowmen if I'm up against strong shooters.
____________
In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 06, 2009 02:57 PM

An insight in the haven faction. While it's true that there are not many possible effective builds it still very adaptable with enough tricks up its sleeve even though it looks straightforward. Which units will be used, which will be split, initiative/curse-bless management, take the offensive or wear out your opponent through defensive, where to dive, be it an occupied spot or one soon to be. More army doesn't mean better chances because there will be less unit interaction and one single slowed unit can prove fatal, especially vs dungeon.

For instance check this one, haven units move in harmony and cover each other. A haven with extra brutes and vindicators would not have done better. Game is from arena finals btw, Natalka vs Zilo.

I also had an interesting game with Azagal, this time haven vs necro. Had I taken the offensive it would be like crashing on a brick wall, I'd sustain casualties and fall back with undead hordes at my heels that would eventually drown me in their numbers. Vitality/frenzy with high numbers of skeletons and zombies is hard to deal with, they are surprisingly resilient and pack a punch. Especially under Orson.

(Before I proceed I'd like to mention that I had a perfect setup in skills - empathy, retribution, stormwind and enlightenment - as well as arties - necklace of bloody claw, ring of vitality, dwarven greaves for slow immunity and treeborn quiver)

Irina playing soon after Orson I decided to wait so as not to trigger empathy and I kept buffing myself while simultaneously dealing with the necro curses as they came. Purge took down enemy endurance, the waiting griffins were soon hasted and speed-diving, my crossbowmen free to shoot throughout the game. Only once they had to wait till confusion was dispelled. My only protection against dark was magical immunity which is usually bad news unless you have already established your advantage on the field - that will usually not happen for a while vs necro. A different build could have allowed the necromancer to sneak in a puppet/frenzy and kill half the crossbows in one attack of your own units.

Nothing that a duel regular wouldn't know but I appreciate seeing haven work so flawlessly. One single mistake like not waiting with the first units and getting morale could have wrecked my game.
What IS surprising though is how much the crossbowmen affected the game being only tier 2. They are slow, have high damage range and are usually unreliable but with the right setup they are killers. And that is the whole point, how to maximize your key units' effectiveness rather than hire as much meat as possible. If the formation breaks then things will start going downhill. Even the squires moving a tile from their post could have allowed Azagal to block me with a painful crystal.

Of course in a different setup other units might have been more useful to depend on. Like vindicators, battle griffins or a full champion stack. Ellaine's vampiric brutes with soldier's luck are the stuff of legend
____________
I gotta say I'm starting to feel
a bit elitist now that the qp
starts to sink into my
subconscius.
- Veco

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted August 07, 2009 09:37 AM

lol, what the hey, Elvin, u show a losing haven;t against empowered deep freezer with master of ice/cold death & icicle  Really felt for haven;t player after champs 1st major attack blocked by little furies & then "that" spell & ensuing extra dmg by blackies (attack after hero turn due to stormwind) & kythra-enhanced minos ---> thought game over but was surprised it wasn't complete rout in the end (interesting atb allowing counters by zealots & priests)
interesting nec battle which is also in line with another I've seen where crossies were main end determinant (nice teaching of countering dark!).  Can't believe 18 pals used a turn to remove confession from other pals instead of skewering another target but seems it worked. Yeah great if can get enlight & more mana than opponent necro
haven;t has so many ways to lose without enlight & subsequent low spellpwr/mana & average might stats that it's (with peasants being useless unless Ellaine)
altho I can definitely appreciate it if opponent can let me have un-countered haste/RM before main battle is joined on mainly my side of battle field
Hope defeats despair
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 07, 2009 09:59 AM

Since I mentioned the defensive formation let me show you what happens if the opponent finds the weak spots. Inferno brings haven defenses crashing down within one round, man that has gotta hurt.

http://www.speedyshare.com/577530295.html
____________
I gotta say I'm starting to feel
a bit elitist now that the qp
starts to sink into my
subconscius.
- Veco

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
veco
veco


Legendary Hero
I'm here!
posted August 07, 2009 10:23 AM

Quote:
Can't believe 18 pals used a turn to remove confession from other pals

Lol, I never expected them to charge out, was rather wondering if they will lay hands on those palas or angels
____________
Inelegant, but pleasingly loud.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted August 07, 2009 11:00 AM

man, the hurt, the pain has come back...
guess pals need to keep their hands on each other else they'll be seduced ha?
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 07, 2009 11:10 AM

Normally you won't see two paladins seduced at the same time We had both hasted so seducers acted faster and the paladin turn came earlier too. And griffins did not have a chance for morale dive that is another possibility. But yes I prefer to have them close to each other and angels. My placement in the necro match wasn't random, I had counted on griffins to dive so that the middle paladins could cleanse both if the need came to that.
____________
I gotta say I'm starting to feel
a bit elitist now that the qp
starts to sink into my
subconscius.
- Veco

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elwin
Elwin

Tavern Dweller
posted August 19, 2009 06:12 PM

Hi there. First of all apologies for this noob question since I am indeed a noob. Well I had been playing heroes for a long time but playing in the internet is a whole new world very different to hot seat or AI.

Basically the question is simple, i have a lot of trouble beating magical rushers, such as necromancers (caspar) or any wizard. Ive read much of the thread but still i cant think of any way to defeat them.

I know a few basics of course. Well ill put an example that has just happened to me in the "peninsula" map. I took vittorio since i knew my opponent would try to rush me and tried to get a lot of exp before he came. When he reached me 2nd week, 3rd day. He has lv 12 and i was 10 so i tought maybe i stood a chance. Big mistake. His healing tent was just too strong pretty much healing all the skeletons that my triple flaming ballista (yes, i had it with lv10) and thta my marksmen could do. and his destructive spells just did too much damage.

So.... what can i do? The same thing has happened to me against wizards and so.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 19, 2009 06:22 PM

Easy, play a balanced map, ubi's are notorious for being badly designed/balanced Haven stands zero chance there, try maps where the final battle is at the earliest week 4.
____________
I gotta say I'm starting to feel
a bit elitist now that the qp
starts to sink into my
subconscius.
- Veco

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elwin
Elwin

Tavern Dweller
posted August 19, 2009 06:50 PM
Edited by Elwin at 19:00, 19 Aug 2009.

Well, that definetely answers the questions altough it probably wasnt the answer i expected hehe.

Ok, then what balanced maps do you reccomend? So that i can use them when i create the game. Just naming one for 1v1 or for for players would be enough. I have the spanish version of the game but i think i will be able to guess them from the english names.

Thanks a lot for the quick answer.

EDIT: I also have another question. I am currently very confused with what build i should take. Actually most of you reccomend taking leadership to use divine guidance. I never minded it too much but not that everyone is mentioning it i should look it again. The thing is ... i always took attack, defense, logisctics, war machines and light magic. Wich is the one to be removed to leave space for leadership?

PS: This is kinda off topic: but i took mi nick Elwin from a hero of homm4. But now that i saw your name it made me wonder ... was the name of the hero elvin by any chance and i am mistaken or its just a coincidence that our names are so similar?
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 19, 2009 07:03 PM

Coincidence, I remember Elwin but he has nothing to do with mine Elvin was my first character in neverwinter nights, an Elvish warrior.

Maps I have liked are the Giants, MasterMind, Rat Race, The Abysmal, SideKick, Ability, Dragon Hill, Master of Disguise, Genesis, Battle for Honour amongst others. That said ability and battle for honours are pretty old, better try the others first. Mapmaking has a evolved a lot since the early days.

http://www.toheroes.com/h5maps.html
____________
I gotta say I'm starting to feel
a bit elitist now that the qp
starts to sink into my
subconscius.
- Veco

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted August 20, 2009 02:09 AM
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 02:13, 20 Aug 2009.

Elwin/Elvin, that's gonna be weird if u post here regularly
Quote:
...most of you reccomend taking leadership to use divine guidance...i always took attack, defense, logisctics, war machines and light magic. Wich is the one to be removed to leave space for leadership?...
@Elwin, it looks like u want a map suitable for haven which is longer & allows for training?

If longer game, then leadership/divine guidance/empathy with mass haste is good.  Preferred skills should depend on which faction you are fighting.  From your choice of hero/skills, that looks like it's picked for shorter game which has haven at disadvantage (war machines better for short game, but logistics is for longer games?) --> you may have to be very good/lucky to win some.

So best haven chance is to play longer map like superhero Elvis warrior said & then don't have to choose Vittorio/war machines.  Leadership is typically chosen for divine guidance AND empathy can outcast enemy with mass spells in the beginning of main battle with possibility of using divine guidance depending on atb, etc.  Other skills I'm sure you'll custom to your tastes/experience/spells available in guild BUT don't need to choose same skill in every real game.  [I won't comment on the other skills mentioned as it's situational, hope this helps]
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elwin
Elwin

Tavern Dweller
posted August 21, 2009 09:14 PM

Hi there again. I once more have been defeated in rather peculiar circustances and i would like to ask for advice again on what i could have done in this case.

But first, back to the skills discussion. I still cant let go of war machines since still most of the games i play rarely get to be late games (its very rare to find them on the server, long games are to play in hotseat with your friends, but i can beat my friends easily). SO far vittorio has been performing pretty good.

@SKPRIMUS: I am afraid i didnt understand very much what you said about logistics. You say they are not good to take in long games?. I agree that it doesnt help in battle but i have always tought logistics was a MUST. But then again i could try to do without them.

Ok, and now to the case i was mentioning before. 4 player map, the one that starts with one player in a corner and a island with a academy city in the middle. I played against wizard. I had hoped that the other 2 players would somehow help me against the wizard but one of them disconnected and the other one got killed by monsters (duh). So i had to face the wizard wich the special fireball skill (Nethir). He kept attacking me pretty much each week and i kept beating him however my losses were very great since in each battle he managed to cast many fireballs. It went on like this for a while and i decided to conquer the middle town when he seemed to be taking it easy to atack with bigger army.

I was very glad when i captured the town, i was 19 and he was still 15 and i had much greater army than his. The tabern said i was stronger so i tought that if i stayed in the academy town (that had castle) it wouldnt be much trouble specially since i bough many artifacts in the market.Unfortunately altough i was had mastery of light magic in neither of the guilds inmunity to magic had appeared.

So he came and we started fighting. his units didnt do me any damage but his double fireballs (mark of the wizard) combined with his expert srcery really killed my troops at a incredible pace(he has 120 mana and he wasted nearly all). however i managed to kill most of his troops, leaving only a small group of obsidian gargoyles.

Hes just casted armaggedon then with the mana he had left killing the 6 groups of units i had left.

To sum up: It was late game (mid second month), i had greater army, greater level, greater artifacts and i was defending a castle and yet he was able to beat me. How could i have possibly avoided this from happening? please don say that playing in a bigger map beacouse that just doesnt happen in the server as far as ive seen.

Sorry for this gigantic post, i guess right now im pretty frustrated.

PS: Is there any way to dispel mark of the wizard? i tried to remove it with cleanse but didnt suceed, i dont know if it simply failed or that it cant be removed. (unfortunately i hadnt been able to upgrade the knights into palas so i couldnt use their cleanse)
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 21, 2009 09:26 PM

Logistics are a must but warmachines certainly aren't. Academy especially with saboteurs can neutralize your ballista forever. At any rate why let him attack you in a town? That only hinders your units that should charge academy, not stay behind walls waiting till the fireballs kill them.

Here's a fun game between haven and academy week 5, maybe 6. There are some dwellings on the map so the armies grow fast - tier 2, 4, 6 and 7 if memory serves.

http://www.speedyshare.com/523491951.html

Haven has to charge like crazy and will usually have enough damage to kill academy troops fast. In this case my opponent was unlucky, didn't know I had armageddon with phoenix cape so by splitting his paladins made himself easier to kill.
____________
I gotta say I'm starting to feel
a bit elitist now that the qp
starts to sink into my
subconscius.
- Veco

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted August 21, 2009 09:37 PM
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 21:50, 21 Aug 2009.

Quote:
...@SKPRIMUS: I am afraid i didnt understand very much what you said about logistics...
What I meant was war machines appears to be suitable for short games while logistics appears to be suitable for longer games.  It just appears to be half & half...if final battle is in month 2, then that's not a short game but did u have other battles with enemy before then like in wk2 or wk3?

Better yet, name the map & whether it is
open: no barriers between enemy factions (not much chance for haven like in peninsula)
closed: barriers between enemy factions like large group of monsters.
If open, then yeah, haven will get harassed ALL the time with magic enemy which can run away  I can see why in some cases one has to plan for early harassment battles (war machines & other related skills) & also later final battles (preferred final battle skills may differ).
edit: Most TOH maps are closed maps I think..

Agst academy (& many other enemies), the longer the final battle takes, the worst it will get for haven... this is a point to consider for haven this fact helped me develop some of my skill choices/strategies However, the skill choices good for final month 2 battle may not help defeating early neutral monsters as much -> can be difficult balancing act...EDIT:argh, beaten in my reply!
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elwin
Elwin

Tavern Dweller
posted August 23, 2009 12:43 PM
Edited by Elwin at 12:52, 23 Aug 2009.

Alas, i return victorious from the battlefield.

I tried the dougal with leadership build and i have to say it worked exceptionally fine altough empathy and retribution are extremly hard to get before lv 20. I only managed to get empathy in lv 22 thanks to a lv-up tree.

It was not wizards i defeated but elves and i have to say mostly thanks to the fact that i managed to take the enemy town while the enemy hero was away and force him to attack me there.

Basically i am posting to ask what possibilities there are against a tactic that my enemy used. He had Wyngaal wich gives extra initiative at the beggining of the battle. That way his arcane archers can shoot first. He made the terrible mistake of shooting my griffons instead of my marksman pretty much killing all griffons. If he had shot my marksman most surely he would have killed most of them.

What can you do against that? if he manages to kill all marksmen in the first shot i cant avoid thinking that the battle will be nearly won for him. Would splitting the marksman work fine for that?. Ah i also use squires for the great shield allies bonus. But squires dont need to be defending for the bonus to be working right?

EDIT: How can i view the saved game you posted? I download it but i am not very sure in wich folder it must go ... dont see a savedgames folder within the heroes folder.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
Really, Ubisoft?
posted August 23, 2009 02:52 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 14:58, 23 Aug 2009.

About having trouble with getting the skills you need: It's my experience that you need to pick a target strategy right from beginning of game and then work dedicated towards this.

Thus, if you want to go for Empathy and Retribution, you need to pick a Hero who starts with either of these skills, and preferably a perk in the right stub also. Ellaine, for instance, will suite you very well as she starts with Leadership > Recruitement, guaranteeing that you will be offered Divine Guidance and Empathy on level up, with the right planning.

Dougal also can work, but notice that he starts with Archery which is troublesome, as Archery opens for Flaming Arrows, and you have no use for Flaming Arrows if you don't also take War Machines, and more importantly, will cut you off from getting Retribution (because you need Battle Frenzy to learn this skill). This means you'll have to pass on Flaming Arrows every time it shows up, which can cause trouble as it narrows down your chances for a succesful skill development.


Secondly, you need to be devoted to your strategy. I'm don't know if you're familiar with the finer details of skill propagation, but on each level, you will be offered 4 choices: 1) Upgrade of currently known skill (upper left). 2) New skill (lower left). 3) Basic perk in known skill (upper right). 4) Advanced perk (lower right).

However (and this is useful), if you haven't got prerequisites for any Advanced perks, you will get offered two basic perks in 3 and 4. Use this to help you in maximizing chances to get the basic perk that you need in a skill. Furthermore, if you're expert in all your skills, you'll be offered to new skills in 1 and 2. Use this to maximize your chances for learning a new skill. But be carefull!: Generally only expert out all your skills if you still have open perk slots in one of your skills - otherwise, you'll be narrowed down to only two new skills and NO perks, which may force you to pick an unwanted skill (imagine playing Knight and being offered Basic Sorcery or Basic Summoning Magic - unlikely, but it could happen!) - so generally, only bring yourself in this situation if there's no other way round it.


Taking Ellaine for example, you'll want her to level up in Leadership first and learn Divine Guidance and Empathy. Notice that in order to learn Divine Guidance, you need to learn Retaliation Strike, so this is your first priority. On your first level up, haven't got access to any advanced perks, which means 3) and 4) will both be basic perks, so you hope that Retaliation Strike will pop up. If it does, pick it, because then you know that once you get chance to learn another perk in Leadership (which requires you learn Advanced Leadership first!), Divine Guidance WILL show up, as this is the ONLY advanced perk you have access to with your current skills! Also note that once you have learned DG and Expert Leadership, Empathy WILL show up for the same reasons.

Notice that you will want to WAIT with learning Attack. Reason for this is that once you learn Attack, 3 more basic perks will be available, which will start to minimize your chances for a neaded perk to show up (for instance, if you learn Attack before you get Retaliation Strike, suddenly you will have acces to no less than 8 basic perks, namely Estates, Diplomacy, Archery, Tactics, Battle Frenzy, Benediction, Master Of Training and Retaliation Strike), making the odds for the needed one (which is at this point Retaliation Strike) to show up much worse.


Part of the art is to learn when to jump on and when to pass on a skill. If you go for Empathy / Retribution (which is an excellent build imo, add Light Magic as third), you will need Attack - but Attack has 10 % to show up for Knight, so don't jump it - you will get another chance! A perk like Benediction might seem like a sound pick, but you don't need it till later (if ever), and it will block you from learning Retaliation Strike until you level up Training one more time. On the other hand, something like Master Of Training might be a valid emergency pick if you have poor offerings, because albeit not immediately useful, you will need it to unlock Retribution, and thus will only stall you on a short term basis.

Sometimes you may change plans if a very rare (2 %) skill shows up that will greatly benefit you (for Knight, that would be Enlightenment!), but generally, stick only to your intended skills. I don't know if all this is any help to you, but my experience is that with careful planning - and really, the planning is half the fun - you will be surprised how effective your leveling will be.
____________
| Heroes 6 - News overview

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted August 23, 2009 11:09 PM

Quote:
Alas, i return victorious from the battlefield.

I tried the dougal with leadership build and i have to say it worked exceptionally fine altough empathy and retribution are extremly hard to get before lv 20. I only managed to get empathy in lv 22 thanks to a lv-up tree...
Congrats on your persistence with haven & a victory agst Wyngaal at that
You must already know a bit about the game to win & also choosing skills/perks at level-ups to be able to get emp/retrib with dougie in time! (or very lucky)

To even have a chance of considering your query on shooting crossies, you must post the replay [you probably guessed all properly considered answers must be situational?]

Late attempt to answer your questions (u may already know):
1. I know no known way of removing mark of wizard, damned, necromancer etc.  Manual v3.1 does not seem to mention it.  If haven needs to think about removing mark of wizard instead of doing something else, it's probably lost!
2. Put saved replay into folder
My Documents\My Games\Heroes of Might and Magic V - Tribes of the East\Profiles\<whatever username you use>\Replays\
If there is no replays folder, just create one.  If there is a crash on viewing replay, you may also need to put Elvin's duel map into the maps directory to view it.

@alcibiades - yeah, I try to plan my planned skills/perks before game but did you have to use Ellaine as an example?
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
[ This thread is 23 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 (16) 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ] < Prev Thread . . . Next Thread >
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.1043 seconds