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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Haven Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Haven Faction [ This thread is 24 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 (19) 20 21 22 23 24 ]
Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted June 16, 2010 06:42 PM
Edited by Azagal at 18:46, 16 Jun 2010.

Don't underestimate tactics bro... that 1 tile can be game breaking trust me. Both for reaching or preventing being reached. For Power of Speed to be effective you need to cast it first (D'UUUUH) and unless you get a unit ahead of a hero or another crucial enemy unit through casting the effect will only pay off after a while (when the bonus iniative starts to add up and make a difference), Tactics on the otherhand will give you an advantage from the get go. That +1 tile gives you so many positioning abilities which work wonders both defensively and offensively. Tactics is like my second favourite skill in the game. It's helped me smack an opponent with Untamneds first turn and it's helped me have a full stack of palas and angels being unable to hit anything but my ghosts and they both missed. Oh mai gawd the satisfaction!!!
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"The superior man is modest in
his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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OnLy4DuNgEoN
OnLy4DuNgEoN


Adventuring Hero
posted June 27, 2010 06:32 AM

Seraph's Divine vengeace is banned online ?
____________
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
-Sholom Aleichem

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veco
veco


Legendary Hero
peek-a-boo!
posted June 27, 2010 06:42 AM

No, it isn't.
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Sometimes I feel like strangling squirrels!

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zaio-baio Online
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 30, 2010 04:34 PM

seraphs basically suck , and their div vengeance is at basic i think

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Warlord
Warlord


Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
posted July 02, 2010 12:40 PM

I will try this out in the future, but I think that this is a good strategy for Haven.

Starting Hero: Ellaine
Bonus: Recources

First Day: Get Archer's Tower and buy archers. Then get another Haven hero. If he/she has peasants, give them to Ellaine, and keep the archers. Take the archers you bought as well. Start capturing mines with your bought hero, while Ellaine sits in the castle and gets money from taxpayer, and you get her Recruitment bonus as well.


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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted July 02, 2010 04:04 PM

Not gonna pay off anytime soon. A peasant pays off for his own cost in 20 days which is too slow to be noticeable. Maybe with Ellaine and a too epic for you map you will actually gain something but in a 'normal' week 4 map I wouldn't count on it.
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We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted July 02, 2010 04:08 PM

Ellaine is underrated as a main, though. Leadership + Estates means Empathy + Divine Guidance in a couple of level-ups, which means creeping without losses (given Archers + Ammo Cart) halfway Week 2. Sounds good to me.

(However, the best main will imo always remain Maeve, for longer games, but Ellaine is better for short ones)

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted July 02, 2010 04:18 PM

Ellain sucks in short games, that is a given. Cannot in any way match Dougal, Vittorio or even Maeve. Maeve has more archers, has leadership and can gain battle frenzy asap. Not to mention an easy-to-get mass haste without guild. Peasants in short games are useless, however that is not the case later on.
____________
We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted July 02, 2010 04:23 PM

Ellaine's only advantage is that she can get Divine Guidance before anyone else can. Important enough for a rush Yeah, she sucks otherwise, cuz that is where her ONLY real use lies. (I never really said otherwise, K? I still prefer her to Maeve in short games - but Dougal is infinitely better, true)

Maeve might be an overall contender for my favorite Hero of all. Improved Haste (including the Inquisitor's Haste), Easy access to Retribution, Power of Speed and Divine Guidance... It's a cakewalk against the A.I. and better than most (at least!) against Human players.

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zaio-baio Online
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 08, 2010 04:16 AM
Edited by zaio-baio at 05:18, 08 Jul 2010.

the late game fight is between maeve and klaus - and it depends on the artifacts/skills that u have - klaus + familiar ground + init boosting atris cant be matched - champs starting before the enemy units and being able to cross the battlefied and attack at wish -> 2 stacks wiped out from the start(yes, only against 1-2 factions, otherwise i'll stick with pallys + maeve )

Edit: Checked the manual -> In TotE klaus seems quite usesless - there is a 90% cap to the jousting bonus, which means that the first charge deals the same dmg - klaus just reaches the cap fast - 8tiles distance.2x2[creature size].5%[normal jousting] = 160% ...

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broadstrong
broadstrong


Promising
Known Hero
Level 20 Vassal of Light
posted July 12, 2010 10:30 AM

Finally starting to post again after a long absence (but still don't think I can post regularly).

Anyway, just a short analysis about the Haven heroes. Generally I feel they are all good in a way or another (for other factions there are "useless" heroes...). I try and analyse a bit for each of the heroes, which game stage/map type they play best and what type of skill sets would be optimal, based on their starting skills (they are not there without a reason, I feel).

Dougal (best in early-mid game)

Sure the starting archers (and the ammo cart) helps in creeping, but only "a bit"; if you are referring to real creeping Irina is better.
Since Archery leads to Flaming arrows, taking War Machines is a viable choice (with either Catapult or Ballista). Having Ballista /Flaming Arrows do help to make Dougal equally good in late game.

Ellaine (best in Large/XL/Huge maps)

In theory the weakest of the knights? Remember that her ability can be used after Day 1, and it is not combat-based (which means it usually works so long as there are peasants in her army), plus the starting number of peasants mean extra money (which is important in quickly getting Capitol and using Training ability).
Best way to use her as? A walking mine, complete with Estates and Diplomacy (to hire more troops). On large maps, the economic benefit given (in terms of money and free troops) cannot be underestimated.
In a hitch, she can also get Divine Vengeance early, so not entirely useless.

Irina (best in early-mid game)

Since her griffins can battle dive, I would generally try to ensure the griffin dwelling is built within the first week, and use those extra griffins to creep after that by fighting neutral armies to control mines, resources, artifacts and such (especially good against shooters). In a sense, that also means that you can afford to upgrade the griffins a bit (not too much) later, and save those money to quickly get the higher-tier troops.
Soldierís Luck is probably a given , but even if you feel that it is not important for you, Resourcefulness is also alright (get more resources at the beginning). If somehow she can get Destructive Magic, can perhaps get Sap Magic too (Magic Resistance + Sap Magic gives some buffer against spellcasting heroes).

Klaus (best in late game)

The hero who boosts the mainstay troops of Haven starts with Retaliation Strike, which means he can get Divine Guidance slightly easier and earlier. Expert Trainer would be good for him to horde massive numbers of Paladins/Champions all by himself (though another knight can do it also). And since Paladins/Champions deal so much damage, Battle Frenzy + Retribution only adds on to that. Tactics would be good too (for Paladins and Champions to strike fast and hard).


Laszlo (best in mid-late game)

Starting with Vitality is no joke, it means all troops under him are harder to kill (though also harder to resurrect). This also allows the squires to have a better chance at bashing the enemy. This somewhat necessitates getting Soldierís Luck. Most of the Defense perks should be considered, the exact perks to get depends on the opponents/neutral armies (Evasion against shooters, Power of Endurance against melee walkers/flyers, Last Stand and Preparation are useful too). If Vindicators are present, some Light Magic to buff them is also helpful.

Maeve (best in mid-late game)

Starting with two non-racial skills is a definite plus point, though the perks to get later on will require some finesse and thought as the chance for each skill to appear during level up is actually smaller. To take advantage of the Windrider special, Expert Light Magic or Power of Haste should be obtained as soon as possible.

Rutger (best in Large/XL/Huge maps; late game)

He shines best in large maps, especially those with lots of non-grass / dwarven sub terrain. Not surprisingly, he seems heavily geared at getting the Logistics perks, especially Warpath in late games which helps him to move even greater distances. With that type of high frequency in doing battles, apart from the might skills such as Attack and Defense, Enlightenment + Intelligence may also help a bit, particularly if he is scouting the map with small armies and needs to cast spells to remove neutrals. Be it scouting as a scout or as a main hero, Scouting and Silent Stalker are both helpful skills.

Vittorio (best in early-mid game)

The starting ballista can be helpful in clearing neutrals to get resources and mines. Besides having the Ballista skill, having another skill like Catapult (which also shines due to his special) or First Aid tent would also supplement the troops well. To augment the ballista further, Attack + Archery + Flaming Arrows is pretty much a must-have. If he gets Summoning Magic and the Earthquake spell, Master of Earthblood would also help in quickly removing town defenses.


Thatís all for my short analysis. Hope it is helpful and feel free to comment/correct.  

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The queer part of the
Carcity/Broadstrong/Zamfir[
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sailing, summon allies,
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Many current projects on hand.

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Ambidext
Ambidext


Adventuring Hero
Wandering knight
posted July 13, 2010 12:31 PM

I still don't get Lazzlo, honestly. How does one actually make him a powerhouse hero?

Even after ToTE where Vindicators come in, I wouldn't find him as effective as Klaus or Doug late mid/late game. Vindicators have too low speed and initiative, by the time they get into action, the enemy is usually shot down by crossows or slain by seraphs, or killed.

If they attempt to hit anything above tier 4, they suffer much more losses upon the retaliation.
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zaio-baio Online
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 13, 2010 03:25 PM

they are slow, but who cares ? u need them early near ur troops for -ranged dmg, and they are the perfect stack to teleport after u cast your mass spells.With vitality  + solds luck they bash like mad ( i may upload some rpls later). I almost never use vindicators - pallys, griffs, archies, x-bows - Heaven has enough dmg dealers.The main problem is that in order to train footmans effectively you must sacrifice 20 x-bows a week - a great favour to your enemy.

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Ambidext
Ambidext


Adventuring Hero
Wandering knight
posted July 14, 2010 11:02 PM

That may be one use, but compared to Klaus' 50 champions on epic maps, a pack of blessed Seraphs or Dougal's marksmen with Archer's Dream set, Squires/Vindicators aren't really contributing as much.

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted July 15, 2010 01:46 AM

Well.. If you've seen what they can do with mass haste, a few buffs from priests, good morale and the occasional teleport they are not all that bad. Azagal had a funny replay where they killed a stack per action.
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We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.

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bloucester
bloucester


Famous Hero
MSN can go to hell
posted August 10, 2010 07:12 AM
Edited by bloucester at 08:06, 10 Aug 2010.

So, generally all boils down to retribution + divine guidance (empathy) or flaming arrows ballista. It would seem that the second option is more suitable on smaller maps or when trying to creep as fast and effortless as possible.

The thing is: on larger maps, are you willing to sacrifice the 25% bonus damage and/or divine guidance for the artefacts you are probably going to get before your opponent and the gold you are probably going to accumulate faster? Utopias included.

I mean, you could take a utopia 12x and start training right away with flaming ballista. This is not the case with the retribution build unless you try crossbowmen and some fodder with amazing vitality + tactics.

So, there would be two builds in general:

Retribution:

Attack - Frenzy, Retribution (Tactics / Archery)
Leadership - Divine guidance, Empathy
Light / Dark magic - perks
Luck / Enlightenment / Logistics / Defence

Flaming arrows:

Attack - Archery, Flaming arrows (Tactics / Frenzy)
War machines - Ballista, Triple Ballista, First Aid
Luck - Resistance
Light / Dark Magic / Enlightenment / Defence

I tend to leave out Leadership in the flaming arrows build since it's not that important here - I would substitute it for Luck.

Please do comment.


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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 10, 2010 07:41 AM

Makes sense. Luck also affects the ballista plus getting morale boosters is rather easy, many locations/arties.
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We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.

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bloucester
bloucester


Famous Hero
MSN can go to hell
posted August 10, 2010 07:50 AM

Another way to creep efficiently would probably be swift mind + divine guidance + LOTS of marksmen. Have to try it a few times to see if it works as nice as it looks.

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted August 10, 2010 08:23 AM

Agree, I would even go so far as to think from a generic hero point of view it's 3 simpler choices

1. Retribution + Leadership [or even no need for leadership if enough morale artis!]

2. Ballista + Luck

3. Luck + whatever non-retribution build if depending on vampirism which cancels out retrib bonus.

{generally I don't like the damage output of Haven's might army if no retrib and no luck (unless it's Dougal with the main damage provided by boosted xbows with archery)... other skills/perks depends on situation}

btw, I don't think of things from generic hero point of view
[eg. Dougal, which comes down to choosing either PoS or retrib or flaming; & then other skills desired likely develops out of that choice in the attack tree]
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
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bloucester
bloucester


Famous Hero
MSN can go to hell
posted August 10, 2010 09:15 AM

I'm not sure I'd like to go all in with a single target spell like vampirism. It gets dispelled way too easy. On the other hand, the ballista build is similar to this spell because once again you rely on a single thingy

So, I'd probably play safe with retribution / guidance and hope my opponent doesn't kill everything on the map for 2 weeks (stronghold with centaur-lady and flaming ballista for example).

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