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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Inferno Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Inferno Faction This thread is 30 pages long: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 10 20 30 · «PREV / NEXT»
NIght_Heaven
NIght_Heaven


Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
posted September 07, 2007 05:22 PM

Inferno...hmm...inferno... The moste terrbile melee units I have ever seen in Homm5. Completely evloved from Heroes 3 and with some of the best might melee units I have ever expect to fight,Inferno is indeed a good "tour de force" The key I think with inferno is one gigantic powerfull attack with the full army equiped. Then let the charging begin ... I must admit that probably not the best of all but indeed one of the most powerfull units(hell chargers and pit lords coupled with succubi and gating). The thing about inferno is the fact that they may not bee such good persons and race but they dont care. Call the devils and let them summon the forces of evil.Feel the powerfull rage of the pit devils when they cast meteor shower. Maybe this race cant win against all races but be sure in multyplayer that if the inferno attacks you ...then prepare for a good battle. The heroes of inferno I find a little ...weak..sorry ..No magicians...

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kermit
kermit


Known Hero
Soul hunter
posted September 07, 2007 06:24 PM

All this gating makes for quite a mess

Keep in mind that some fast units may get to your units before gates appear (those nightmares or emeralds gotta hurt). Demon gates are just too slow for me. In most cases by the time it actually appears (not to mention takes a turn), it's either too late or you have already killed everyone. The upgraded version is somewhat better although still too slow to block fast units.

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KageShikamaru
KageShikamaru

Tavern Dweller
posted September 11, 2007 12:33 AM
Edited by KageShikamaru at 00:55, 11 Sep 2007.

Here is an Idea that I thought recently...

Inferno Heroes ( Demon Lords ) Main Skills Power is :

Offense
Dark Magic
Defense
War Machines
Logistics
Luck
Leadership ( Low Probability )
Gating
Hellfire / Corpse / Mark


In no particular order...

You can clearly see that Demon Lords should be used as "Fighters" instead of Magicians...

They aren't good on Destructive Magic ( No Spell Power ). Maybe are good on Dark Magic , but probably not. Also they don't even have mana for Hellfire + Spells.

So either you go on a "Combat Skills" (Defense / Offense / War Machines / Logistic / Luck / Power of Speed / Teleport Assault) or you focus on Racial Skills (Expert or Ultimate Gating / Hellfire / Corpse / Mark / Swarming Gate / Swift Gate) or you focus on both. (Racial + Combat)

Maybe you can try a Dark Magic but the spell won't be at full effect , so it generally sucks...




So here is the Question :

What can you do if you have such nice Magic Schools and want to use Magic ( Destructive / Dark ) but you know that your heroes will suck hard on Magic Skills?



Just don't use a Demon Lord...

The heroes on the Tavern aren't only Demon Lord , you can find on Tavern Heroes Types of Necromancer / Wizards / Warlock / RuneMages / etc... Although on some of them you will lose the power ( partial or fully ) of their racial skills ( Forget Gating and forget Elemental Chain / Rune Magic if you don't have a Town to create their creatures / buildings ) , even so you will still get a lot more Magic Skills and Spell Power / Knowledge than you would as a Demon Lord.


Whats better is that those Heroes ( Wizards / Warlocks / Necromancers / Rune Mages ) have good chances of gettings Magic Attributes / Skills that work with the Destructive / Dark School :

Skill : Wizards / Warlocks / Necromancers / Rune Mages

SP : 30% / 45% / 45% / 30%. ( Good Chances )
Knowledg: 45% / 15% / 15% / 20% . ( Not the best on some of them , but sometimes SP > Knowledge )
Dark Mgc: 8% / 2% / 15% / 2%. ( Good Chances for half of them)
Destr Mgc: 8% / 15% / 8% / 10%. ( Good Chances )
Sorcery: 10% / 10% / 10% / 2% ( Good Chances , except for Rune Mage )
Enlightment: 15% / 8% / 8% / 8%. ( Good Chances )


So I think that they will work as better Magic Heroes for Inferno than the Demon Lords .

Specially Wizards > Necromancers "=" Warlocks > Rune Mages.

So I call them :

Demon Wizards
UndeaDemon Mage
Demon Warlocks
Demon Dwarfs!




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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 11, 2007 12:54 AM

Does not seem such a good idea. The units are meant for attacking and gating to be effective, magic is always for support. Besides dark can be countered by light or you can be cursed back too.

You do not need to get combat, gating OR magic skills. Demonlords work very well as hybrids. Even if you curse someone you don't need the duration because you aim for quick kills anyway.

Also gating may be a bad idea in some cases, ie against a haven that has many paladins. What if they play before you attack? Especially if you face 2 stacks of them dark won't help much because they can use lay hands and can take a hit with the knights defense.

That said a warlock would be fun with an infeno army. Bad part would be earlygame where mana is scarce and there are no furies for creeping. At least demonlords get warmchines.
Later the familiars would give the warlock good mana for casting
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KageShikamaru
KageShikamaru

Tavern Dweller
posted September 11, 2007 01:00 AM
Edited by KageShikamaru at 01:02, 11 Sep 2007.

Going for "Racial Skills" is somewhat "Hybrid" since some of them need you to get Luck / Logistics / Offense / Defense. And everyone here kinda loves War Machines .

I don't really know if Dark Magic is that good for Demon Lords , yeah you can get the Skills and it will have its use , but you will need too many Skill Points to go a Hybrid with the Three things . But yeah , AoE Curses is kinda good ;P.

Oh yeah , my idea is for those who want a Mage Hero on its army but can't use the Inferno Heroes because they kinda sucks for Magic ;/.

Its mainly for those Secondary Heroes ( or even Main ) that some people like to go .
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 11, 2007 01:05 AM

Of course not. You just skip another skill. Ok I do favour warmachines but attack/dark/luck/logistics works pretty well. I won't necassarily aim for the gating abilities, I leave them for last but it depends on the opponent and when the battle will take place.
And dark is a necessity either for creeping but mainly in a hero battle. Puppeting one's grim raiders is pure glee
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KageShikamaru
KageShikamaru

Tavern Dweller
posted September 11, 2007 01:08 AM

Quote:
Of course not. You just skip another skill. Ok I do favour warmachines but attack/dark/luck/logistics works pretty well. I won't necassarily aim for the gating abilities, I leave them for last but it depends on the opponent and when the battle will take place.
And dark is a necessity either for creeping but mainly in a hero battle. Puppeting one's grim raiders is pure glee


Yeah , now that I take a look again , I think that Dark Magic should have a higher priority for those Demon Lords than before ^^.

One question , you skip Hellfire to have more mana or you get Hell Fire and maybe Consume Corpse when you go for Dark Magic?
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 11, 2007 01:30 AM

No, demonlords havea good knowledge and the familiars suck mana too.
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kermit
kermit


Known Hero
Soul hunter
posted September 11, 2007 03:26 PM
Edited by kermit at 15:36, 11 Sep 2007.

If you go for war machines you'll probably eat up 5 lvl advancements just to max out their power, maybe even 6 if you take catapult.
Also you'll probably need at least advanced gating, as well as mark of the damned and hell fire (those are too usefull to be skipped). This is another 3-4 levels. This sums up to 8-10 skill levels alone....

Now you're left with 2 possible skill picks before hitting lvl 15. The best options would naturally be luck/logistics/dark/atack.

Personally I don't find dark to be a good option at this point, because you already have something to fight neutrals with + you really need the extra sulfur and mercury for building nightmares, pitlords and all the upgrades. You might eventually build lvl 5 mage guild by end of week 3 or beginning of week 4, but dark would've been barely usefull until then.

At this point learning dark may be a good option, though this would mean dropping one of the above skills (luck or atack probably).

Maybe there are better options than what I said but I can't think of a good way to combine war machines/dark. For me it's either either.
I'd say if you're aiming for dark it's best to drop war machines and focus on late game skills such as luck and atack. Might be harder for creeping but you'll get a stronger late game hero.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 11, 2007 04:08 PM

Yes but I still believe warmachines and dark can coexist. Warmachines is mainly for creeping but it's still effective later while dark can do all kinds of tricks. For one you can curse and cleanse yourself at the same time. My other picks are attack->tactics/excruciating strike(along with ballista that's some free kills) and logistics->teleport assault.

Naturally that favours a gate&go lineup that would work well with luck but in short maps warmachines are better anyway and in large maps you can get a few levels of luck too. I tend to pick Nebiros that already has +1 so it's easy to get it at 3+ with artifact/adventure location.

If nothing else it saves you the trouble of building cerberi and losing a part of them in creeping. Just imps and demons that saves money too.
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kermit
kermit


Known Hero
Soul hunter
posted September 11, 2007 04:43 PM

Basically you're leaving luck out in both scenarios... that's what I usually end up doing too. Although nighmare charge with fear effect can be quite deadly too, if you get that soldiers luck
However, I don't quite share your view on cerberi, I know they don't have much hp, but their speed and no retaliation 3 headed atack does alot of damage (especially with luck). I found 100 cerberi more damaging than 30 nightmares. If you have enough of them and use them in combination with nightmares to charge you can deal a hell of alot of damage. They're also great candidates for teleport assault and hit and teleport back tactics. The only downside I see is that once you loose a few of them you will neve be able to use them for their full destructive potential, as first strike chargers. This makes them a one shot, highly destructive unit, a bit like blood furies, but it sure is worth it in many cases.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 11, 2007 07:29 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 19:40, 11 Sep 2007.

I think they key to good hero is to get many expert skills and few perks (in general , not for inferno only)

With inferno for example i always take grok and have basic gating and logistics \.
Now i want 2 more lvls of log 2 more lvl of gating (mostly because i dont want to have it over and over again as a choice durning my lvl up) so its 4 lvls
Now i want 5 lvls war machines. Usually i pick swift gating to make gating worthwile. Thats 10 lvlups
Now i can get 3 lvl of luck and 3 lvl of dark magic on 17 lvl.
I think that those basic skills are much better than perks but sometimes you just dont get right skills to choose from and you must take some perks. Usually I can get that about lvl 20 which is fine with me. I dont really need any more for my hero. In super large maps i can use last skill tree and get defense or attack or whatever (enlightentenment) , but i dont play so big maps usually.

Attack may be a good skill but i dont really like it. It gives you 20% boost on 3rd lvl where you get expected value of 30% with 3rd lvl luck + your ballista and succurus have this bonus too.

Enlightenment is better also coz it gives you about 9 points to attack on 3rd lvl of skill and 20 lvl of hero which is 45% dmg. So basically almost every skill i can think of is better than attack. Maybe its worth to take attack because of tactics but i dont think so.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 11, 2007 07:57 PM

I was talking about cerberi in creeping and if you get good gating you can save them for a good battle. You can't spare the wood in all maps.

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kermit
kermit


Known Hero
Soul hunter
posted September 11, 2007 08:49 PM

Quote:

Attack may be a good skill but i dont really like it. It gives you 20% boost on 3rd lvl where you get expected value of 30% with 3rd lvl luck + your ballista and succurus have this bonus too.


I won't argue this much since it's also a matter of taste, but for me the primary interest in the atack skill is it's perks, namely tactics, frenzy, extruciating strike. Mastery in the primary skill alone isn't much I agree.

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted September 11, 2007 09:47 PM

I almost always take hellfire ASAP. This 30% chance for +50 fire elemental damage(and +5 for each Spellpower point) that ignores defense is really a lot vs something tough.
Also, inferno offers an excellent option of rushing - a demonlord with: gating - consume corpse(fuels hellfire), hellfire, mark(vs high tiers)
war machines - tent, ballista
log - swift gating
if slow can be learned then dark -> master of mind,
Upgrade 1-4 tiers and split succubus mistress for chain shot hellfire.

Depending on a map the above rush can be delayed by 1-2 week  to:
- lvl up more(luck->swarming gate), get more arties, resources etc.
and in castle:
- build guild lvl 4(frenzy or blind)
- hopefully get nightmares
- get more creature growth: more familiar growth means more mana drained




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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 11, 2007 10:26 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 22:28, 11 Sep 2007.

Quote:
I won't argue this much since it's also a matter of taste, but for me the primary interest in the atack skill is it's perks, namely tactics, frenzy, extruciating strike.


Hehe ye it was my interest some time ago too but then i realized that having 2 expert skills is usually better then one expert + 3 perks and that was supposed to be the point of my previous post

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kermit
kermit


Known Hero
Soul hunter
posted September 12, 2007 02:00 PM

An interesting and quite different approach can be followed with the cerberi guy. With a bit of luck, hell fire + seering fires can be obtained in the first 3-4 levels.

Early Creeping can be done with magic quite effectively without war machines. Afterwards hellfire + seering fires and upgraded cerberi can pack a great deal of damage. Add to that fireball and you get a pretty deadly combo.

I have to admit that this build is less reliable than others however since it requires some luck in spells availability and skill options, but if you can pull it out, it gives a rather different approach to inferno.

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KageShikamaru
KageShikamaru

Tavern Dweller
posted September 13, 2007 12:46 AM
Edited by KageShikamaru at 01:28, 13 Sep 2007.

Hello , here I am posting my experiences again :

I tested a little the Dark Magic with Demon Lords...

Didn't like it that much ;[.

Curses don't last enough when you use the Demon Lords , most of them lasts only 1.5 or 0.25 turns and that sucks. So trying to use Dark Magic without Spellpower , is like trying to use Destructive Magic when you don't have Spellpower to make them powerful ;/. ( Poor Grawl. )

The best Dark Magic I found to use with Demon Lords are :

Vulnerability ( Lasts "Forever" and works with Pit Lords as well ;] )
Thats about it , didn't test Frenzy though , also I didn't test how Weakness work since usually I am  busy using the Level 1 Nuke / Mark / Attack / Consume Corpse / etc...
Didn't like Puppet Master since it doesn't last enough to be "useful".

So I don't think its a very good idea to get Dark Magic when using Demon Lords ;[. Its more of a waste of "Skills" since they are not good "mages" , while Warlocks and Necromancers are .





Whats worst is that when I switch to my "Mage Heroes" from the Other "Races" by buying them on the Tavern , I can easily get Mass Curses lasting 3-6 Turns with Mass / Area Effect and Expert Level. Also Creeping becomes a joke , you can go , go , go , go , use summon creatures , go more , go more , ohh the mana has ended? just use dark ritual , then go , go , go , go more ^^.

My "Demon" Warlock easily gets "Mass Advanced Haste" lasting 8 Turns from Power of Speed ( 30% Initiative ) ( Offense -> Tactics -> Power of Speed , Also Warlock has 15% chance for Attack Skills ) , also he has xxx Damage "Empowered Meteor Shower" or "Empowered Circle of Winter" or "Empowered Chain Lightning" with Master of Fire or Ice or Thunder. Giving awesome AoE Damage while your units pwn them . ( AoE Damage / Mass Haste / Mass Dark Magic FTW! )

Not even mentioning Elemental Chaining , Dark Ritual , Summon Creatures , Town Portal , Warlock "Unique" Skills , etc...

Ahh , how I love Mass Expert Dark Magic with a nice Spellpower Attribute.





For now , I think that a Demon Lord with "Combat Skills" / Hellfire / Consume Corpse / Mark / Racial Buffs / Soldier Luck / WarMachines / Power of Speed is a lot better than trying the luck with Dark Magic because you won't always get what you want and even if you get it isn't like it will be that "useful". If you want some of the Dark Magic ( Maybe Vulnerability ) , I think its a way better idea to split your Pit Lords , use Power of Speed and spam Vulnerability with your Pit Lords ;O.


Also I think that Gating is somewhat "useless" for most of the Creeping. IMO its more like a "Late Game" Hero Battles Skill. By the time you can get your Creeps summoned you would easily have your Nightmare / Cerberi / Devils near the Ranged Creeps. Melee Creeps are somewhat easily manipulated too...


But on Late Game Swarming Gates + Swift Gating + Expert / Ultimate Gating owns all .



Cerberus are somewhat fragile , so I generally don't use them on Creeping too ;O. For Creeping I prefer to use the Horned Overseers since they get nice "stats" ( More Defense than Cerberus ) for their price and are useful sacrifices for your levels / exploration. ( Cerberus are 370 Gold , Horned Overseers are 150 and Horned Overseers come on higher ammounts than Cerberi ( 15-30 HO per Week against 8-16 "Fragile" Cerberus. )

Of course I like Cerberus for battles , but not for Creeping . Its like how I use the Imps , I just don't use them on Battles against Ranged and use the Horned Overseers as "Sacrifices". Oh yeah , Familiars do nice damage on Creeping against Melee .

I could use Cerberus for battles against Melee Creeps , but for this I would need to pay 7 Sulfur and would use only 33% or 50% of the battles , so its a big no no...

Of course I prefer Nightmares to Succubus... You get a new Tanker ( Or do you want to use your Cerberus / Succubus as a "Tanker"? ) also he is a "Tanker" with an awesome Speed and Initiative . Also he has a nice Aura and nice Attack Effect , can work on those Luck Demon Lords with Soldier Luck or can be used as a Finisher with a "Magic" Hero , but this preference might change with the new Succubus ( Seduce !!! ).

Also Nightmare has more Speed / more Initiative / 3 times more Attack / Defense / more Damage / 2 times more HP. Succubus isn't even close unless you do those mad tactics with Hellfire.

Also I generally skip the Pitlords ( Sometimes even the Succubus ) to get Arch Devils faster .


Oh yeah I have a "list" of my "Top Heroes" :

1.Deleb ( doh ).
2.Grok ( Teleport Assault + Logistics ).
3.Marbas ( Awesome Resistance ) / Nebiros ( +4 Luck Please + Tactics ) / Nymus ( Swarming Gates ^^ ) / Wizard / Warlock / Necromancer.
4. Alastor / Jezebeth / Runemage.
5. Grawl ( Worst Skill Ever , although I would like to have powerful Cerberus ).


Thats my thoughts . I might not be the best player , also I don't play Online yet , but I am learning this game and I have some different ideas from what you guys say ;P , so I thought about sharing it here ^^.






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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 13, 2007 01:31 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 11:13, 13 Sep 2007.

Quote:
Curses don't last enough when you use the Demon Lords , most of them lasts only 1.5 or 0.25 turns and that sucks. So trying to use Dark Magic without Spellpower , is like trying to use Destructive Magic when you don't have Spellpower to make them powerful ;/. ( Poor Grawl. )
So I don't think its a very good idea to get Dark Magic when using Demon Lords ;[. Its more of a waste of "Skills" since they are not good "mages" , while Warlocks and Necromancers are .

You don't need them to last much as your units do the main work. Only high lvl spells last little and even then you must have 1 spellpower to get 0.25 duration - not to hard to get a few points there.
Besides if you both attack and puppet a key enemy unit if for one turn the advantage is pretty good.

Quote:
For now , I think that a Demon Lord with "Combat Skills" / Hellfire / Consume Corpse / Mark / Racial Buffs / Soldier Luck / WarMachines / Power of Speed is a lot better than trying the luck with Dark Magic because you won't always get what you want and even if you get it isn't like it will be that "useful". If you want some of the Dark Magic ( Maybe Vulnerability ) , I think its a way better idea to split your Pit Lords , use Power of Speed and spam Vulnerability with your Pit Lords ;O.

Err...Dark magic just sacrifices one skill. Pitlords are expensive(I don't even upgrade them unless in really large maps) and you can't use that strategy in a good fight In smaller you just meteor shower them to death.

Quote:
Also I think that Gating is somewhat "useless" for most of the Creeping. IMO its more like a "Late Game" Hero Battles Skill. By the time you can get your Creeps summoned you would easily have your Nightmare / Cerberi / Devils near the Ranged Creeps. Melee Creeps are somewhat easily manipulated too...

Sure but I don't see how you can defeat a horde no, even lots of vindicators without gating. Sure, I had warmachines too but if I did not fool them with multiple gates I'd have no chance. Gating translates into less casualties and better creeping and it works perfectly in unison with hellfire and motd.

Quote:
Cerberus are somewhat fragile , so I generally don't use them on Creeping too ;O. For Creeping I prefer to use the Horned Overseers since they get nice "stats" ( More Defense than Cerberus ) for their price and are useful sacrifices for your levels / exploration. ( Cerberus are 370 Gold , Horned Overseers are 150 and Horned Overseers come on higher ammounts than Cerberi ( 15-30 HO per Week against 8-16 "Fragile" Cerberus. )

Of course I like Cerberus for battles , but not for Creeping . Its like I use the Imps , I just don't use them on Battles against Ranged and use the Horned Overseers as "Sacrifices". Oh yeah , Familiars do nice damage on Creeping against Melee .

I used cerberi in creeping vs slow walkers as say lots of earth elementals and archers with tactics. They can hold their own vs many neutrals but they die easily if you make mistakes or are unlucky. That can still be remedied with first aid tent but now I don't even build them for creeping unless I am lucky with resources early. Overseers can work but you need aid either from ballista or dark magic vs fast creeps and ranged.
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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 13, 2007 04:57 PM

Quote:
Thats my thoughts . I might not be the best player , also I don't play Online yet , but I am learning this game and I have some different ideas from what you guys say ;P , so I thought about sharing it here ^^.


Its always good to exchange experiences , especially when you are a beginner. Id restrain myself from calling things useless tho. Theres often a thin line between useless and great when it comes to some things  and its usually matter of skill and circumstances on which end you are.

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