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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Academy Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Academy Faction This thread is 36 pages long: 1 10 20 ... 26 27 28 29 30 ... 36 · «PREV / NEXT»
EGNO
EGNO

Tavern Dweller
posted January 21, 2010 10:54 AM

Finally I've managed to get throughout every single page in this thread and studied Elven's post on Celestial Heaven. It comes at the right time, as my LAN game vs my evil friend were postponed due to internet problems which will be solved within next two weeks, so I've got some more time to improve my H5 Academy skills.

First of all about Elvin's post:
It's a damn good one, there's a lot vital info, but... but I must say that I am not totally (in fact most of the time) agree with the strategy described there. It is because of the differences in the game's length. As I already mentioned before, most of you do play short or medium length games, while I always (yep - ALWAYS) play medium to long and very long games (from 8 weeks up to 48 weeks), so almost every single strategy should be adapted to my needs.

For example, I should go for Capitol as soon as possible for to maintain my economical potency in the late game, meanwhile opting for Gremlins > Magic Guild 1 > Mages > Library > Rashaskas, then Colossi and the Castle, denying Gargoyles, Golems and Genies until week 3. This strategy is dictated because of the late game fights, where high tear monsters are the focusing points, so I need as many Colossi and Rashaskas as possible, because at the time the fight begins, Wizzards, Genies and Gremlins do not last more than 2-3 turns, even if they are hundreds.
I even opt for spliting the Rashaksas, denying the Gargoyles, so I could attack without retaliation with 2 monsters, meanwhile blocking the center of the battlefield.

Except this moments, the rest of the post is awesome, so I wanna thank Elvin for useful info. Great Article.

P.S. Special thanks for Mini Artifacts info, this is the most useful one for me, because in such long games as the ones I play, those Mini Things are of the same importance as the Army itself.

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veco
veco


Legendary Hero
who am I?
posted January 21, 2010 11:35 AM
Edited by veco at 11:40, 21 Jan 2010.

I think that you should try using gargs a little more - think of what you lose if you swap them for 2 stacks of rakshasas:
-Gargs are better for blocking the battlefield, simply because of their initiative and flight ability
-add initiative/hp or hp/def arties on them and you got yourself a true obstacle
-unicorns can't blind them
-2 stacks of rakshasas are more likely to block themselves and there's little point of splitting your attacks because of the Ranger's high defense. I'd rather focus fire.
-Academy's army is hero dependant - that means you want more hp in order to last longer. Splitting weak attacks is silly

Generally when fighting Sylvan you'd rather be afraid of their might rather than magic. As Elvin pointed out - Imbued spells don't trigger Magic Mirror, same with mass buffs/curses (Good mass spells are the most dangerous). This makes Galib's special virtually useless - one deflected Lightning Bolt from Druids isn't worth it.
Nur with bottomless mana, Jhora with boosted initiative and finally the dreaded Razzak with rock hard Golems- are all better options in my opinion.
Razzak's defense beats Galib's luck - doesn't matter if it's short, medium or long game

edit: Oh and Magic Mirror from the begining seriously messes up hero leveling. No matter what magic skill you take it'll always interfere - you'll have Surpress Light/Dark, Sap Magic, Banish and Counterspell popping up all the time - and I doubt those are the skill you need the most when facing a ranger
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 21, 2010 01:32 PM

Not virtually useless Whether you are charged with tactics/aura of swiftness and mass buffs or they rain fireballs all over you it won't have any effect. And nobody uses elder druids for lightning anymore, they are kinda obsolete.

Splitting is bad for 2 reasons. Your retaliation will be crappy whereas if the full stack retaliated it could at least have some effect. Secondly you need as much meat as possible, by splitting you only make it easier for the opponent to kill you fast. Oh and split stacks are easier to blind.

Heck if we are talking lategame it will be even worse, because of the tier 1&2 dwellings. If you count battle frenzy(or nature's wrath), possibly multiplied by luck and/or avenger the first attack will be even harder.
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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted January 21, 2010 05:24 PM

Quote:
This strategy is dictated because of the late game fights, where high tear monsters are the focusing points,

But why would you like to make your monsters cry? They'd die for you!


On a sidenote, while I respect your decisions they're ultimately not the wisest, especially if you face Sylvan. You may insist that they work for etc. etc. but they're not ideal. The longer the game takes the more powerful the might aspect of the the game gets compared to the magic department so Luck is indeed a good late game skill but it really shouldn't be for Academy. You should listen to what Elvin says he really knows his stuff. Don't listen to that veco guy he's horrible (actually what he says is quite correct too but don't tell him I said that). You may not chose to believe what they tell you and hold on to your habbits but if you ever play an more experienced player you'll learn the hard way, be it early, middle or late game should you really play as you describe. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you play badly or anything like that I'm just saying that you might underestimate certain aspects of the game or you might not have fully explored them yet. In time you'll learn.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord

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veco
veco


Legendary Hero
who am I?
posted January 21, 2010 06:40 PM

Quote:
Don't listen to that veco guy he's horrible

I love you too.
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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted January 22, 2010 01:52 AM

@EGNOG: nice going reading thru everything & with feedback too...
Just few comments:
1. I presume you normally reach capitol week 3 before getting lvl 6-7?
2. Do you get treasure cave before then?  I normally have to because I typically don't have enough money to reach capitol that quick & the extra gold boost is handy before then, in order to keep building.
3. I also typically need more troops to battle creeps early & thus can't get capitol asap...gremlins & mages are good for this...later rakshasas without retal (with regen if available) is great.
4. Resourcefulness early is nice with Galib for the economy...but it's also good for a secondary resourcefulness Galib to gather up the resources...unless one is lazy (I'm getting to that stage) & can't be bothered to get another hero to pick up stuff & pick things up with the main hero
5. Usefulness of magic mirror depends on opponent so if half opponent spells get diverted then must be alright...but beware of opponent getting other ideas
6. If opponent army is much bigger than yours, the thing to do is probably faster creeping/expansion of economic base/creature growth.  I don't know if it is wise to build rakshasas (which takes tons of resources) before treasure cave & lvl 7 building.
7. You actually gonna post a replay later?
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 22, 2010 01:55 AM

The main hero picking up resources is a typical newbie mistake So much movement lost that way.
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EGNO
EGNO

Tavern Dweller
posted January 22, 2010 12:43 PM

Azagal, thanks for the critics, as I said before - I want to advance my Academy Skill as high as possible, so do not worry, I am swallowing every comment in the right way. It seems now that I have to change some things arround. Elvin's point is really one that deserves to be respected at least, if not followed.

SKPRIMUS, Some months ago I also encountered troubles in what it took to get resources for developing, but, after I rad this: http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=725 things became easier. I do get 2 or 3 mines before week 3, and every mine around my town before week 4 ends. Also, sometimes (mostly 50/50 of the cases) I choose gold from treasure chests, in order to afford the 10 000 price of the Capitol. Of course there can be some delays in acquiring the mines if for example a lots of battlemages guards the sulfur mine, this can delay the acquisition for 1-2 weeks, before I get my troops number, but this are rare evens. Usualy it goes by Elvin's strategy post.
I do not opt for resourcefulness... never. Useless for long games, better to spend the free spot of skill on something more important.

As I said before, I am a defensive wizzard. Since I play H5 I never (NEVER) was involved in an attack minded strategy. Every time I am in the positions of "The Last One To Fight" (the games against AI do not count) so I managed to defend 3 times bigger armies (Sylvian and Necropolis) than mine, while being assaulted in the Castle, but I came on this forum to learn how to attack and WIN games, not to be the hardest nut to beat anymore.

Splitting Rakshasas works as a defensive power but Elvin  & SKPRIMUS are right, if I want to fight equal I need all of the army available. I should learn now how to manage this army in the right manner. (Comments and ideas are welkome).

P.S. As soon as the game will take place, the reply will be shared.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 22, 2010 01:44 PM
Edited by Elvin at 13:46, 22 Jan 2010.

Splitting tends to be better with caster type units, especially if you cannot afford everything or you want to have an excess in artifacts. In academy's case 2 archmage stacks are a good fireballing power(due to logarithmic formula 2 fireballs from split mages are better than fireball from full stack) or for using cleansing/RM on opponent. Should be noted that using RM with opponent having pristines is not a good plan Another possibility is split djinns since they can reduce enemy luck at a quick pace.

Edit:

Btw splitting archmages beyond week 5-6 armies for fireball is probably not so hot. Unit damage should be better than the fireball itself with such army strength so battlemages with init/att should do the trick nicely, good arcane archer killers.
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EGNO
EGNO

Tavern Dweller
posted February 15, 2010 12:25 PM

OK, We almost did it. I finnaly got in touch with my boogie-friend for a multiplayer-lan game.

We set up a random map (normal size), with me and my opponent as protagonists and an AI for some distract movements.
I play my favorite Academy>Galib faction while my friend choose to play Heaven.

After 6 hours of play we commonly eliminated the AI (a destructive/dark necropolis) and now we made a pact of not attacking each other within the next 4 weeks (we both need to get home first, which may take up to 7 days, then we should trade some resources for money and gather all the possible army, while I should add the mini-arties to my stacks and buy some artifacts). Making my way back to my prime City I also should visit the other cities to learn the appropriate magic from the magic guilds. I've got lucky and got a second academy town while fighting the AI, and my opponent somehow found it out, while I know only that he has 4 towns, two of those are Heaven and Necropolis, the rest are unknown to me.

Now I wait for the weekend, when we should continue our game, should we fight this weekend, I'll post a replay, so you could indicate me on my mistakes. =)

P.S. Our game till know is somewhere around week 13.

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pei
pei


Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
posted February 15, 2010 12:33 PM


that is a long time!

u should also show up ur build be careful with those paladins!

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted February 15, 2010 02:00 PM

reaching week 13 in 6hrs is pretty damn good, like about 15 turns an hour...I take it the AI was eliminated in week 9 & then 4wks was spent gathering/buying/visiting stuff?
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted February 15, 2010 02:09 PM

Quote:
and now we made a pact of not attacking each other within the next 4 weeks
P.S. Our game till know is somewhere around week 13.


You realize that this benefits the might faction right?
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.

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EGNO
EGNO

Tavern Dweller
posted February 17, 2010 11:17 AM

# pei: Yeah, those Paladins are pretty strong, they are my main focusing point...

# SKPRIMUS: Yeah, it's half a day, but nope, the AI was eliminated in week 13...

# PhoenixReborn: [You realize that this benefits the might faction right? ] - yeah I know, but I wonted it to be a fair game, so.... Read below...


So, this is it... We met out in month 4, week 4, day 7... He came nearby my Castle and asked me to get out to fight on the plain fields. I accepted... and I was surprised... WTF? He's army were about half of mine!  That could mean only one thing - he has only one Heaven Castle, while I have a second Academy Castle for 5 weeks now (although not with Walls and Castle, but anyway 1 additional Colossi per week is a good thing). I get out and attacked (not forgetting to equip lvl 3 mini arties on my entire army). The fight was short (soon I'll upload the replay).  The only bad thing he did to me is Frenzy on my Rakshasa (50 Rakshasas killed with luck 13 Titans). The field was on my side with obstacles so his Palladins could not reach me fast.

Now help me upload the Replay. I never did it. Where and how can I do it?

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veco
veco


Legendary Hero
who am I?
posted February 17, 2010 11:23 AM

http://www.speedyshare.com/
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none of my business.

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EGNO
EGNO

Tavern Dweller
posted February 17, 2010 12:04 PM

Here are the replays (the second is the replay when I assault his strongest Castle):

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/20981592/This_is_it.rar

Now, I'm going to prepare for the next game, this time against Sylvian.


Wait for your comments, it's important to me to know my mistakes, cause in the next game, the opposition will be many-many times strongly (numerical and qualitative).

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 17, 2010 12:37 PM
Edited by Elvin at 12:38, 17 Feb 2010.

It's irrelevant since your friend doesn't know how to play haven. He should have retribution with empathy, his champions were blocked from a first turn charge and then placed within full range of titans, seraphs are a bad choice, so are battle griffins, he had no squires to protect his archers etc. Either way none of it mattered, just don't summon a phoenix after week 7 against a good player as you'll find it pretty ineffective.

Edit:

Btw seeing so large armies with so low level feels horribly wrong. It is clear that you should be playing an epic map instead.
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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EGNO
EGNO

Tavern Dweller
posted February 17, 2010 12:48 PM

Before you'll start comment my mistakes, let me first explain my tactics.
This is my Galib:
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/20981850/Galib.png

My main concert still remains Sylvian's initiative and luck. When I play against Sylvian I am trying to get at least one mass spell (be it mass slow from dark or mass righteous might from light). As you see from the link above, against Heaven I choose Summoning (and if you saw the replay you'll notice that summon was my basic casting) and Enlightenment - for Spelpower and mini arties power.
Luck and Sorcery is a must for me. I have 3 options that I try never miss out: Mark of the Wizzard, Dead Mana's Curse and Distract. It means that my 2 basic skills are Luck and Sorcery. So I always have to choose those remaining 3 spots. The most of time I go for Summon (for Fog Veil, so there remain 2 uncertainties that I decide based on game's circumstances.
Here you could give me a hand o help, suggesting what's better against Sylvian as the Prime Evil
Then again is Mass Slow effective against Sylvian initiative? (I personally doubt it, Sylvian's army goes first so there's no use for my mass slow I suppose).
Should I opt for Righteous Might?... as it also gives me Storm Wind...and Refined Mana for My Genies and Mages...
Enlightenment is good for Spellpower and Mini Arties but it have nothing good but Intelligence... Some say that better is to have Defence but excepte Defence itself I don't see the point, I don't need any magic protection... maybe only Evasion?...

I really need some help here. I am almost paranoyc about this Sylvian Ossir army. He crashed me half a year ago like a bug, now I want some revenge, at least a decent fight...

Academy has all the potential to win, but there's no room for mistakes. I need to be perfect in this game. I played against this opponent 3 times: First time I merely won it, second time He crushed me badly, third time we were sent into the abyss by AI (Barbarians you know... )... Now it is like a Champions League Final. =) I know my opponent is also searching for some improvements of his strategy through the internet. =)

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 17, 2010 12:56 PM

Tactics are the actions you perform within the battlefield. Btw two more things: You wasted the luck arties since you already had 5 luck and can't get over 50% chance no matter what you do. And be sure to have consume artifact.
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veco
veco


Legendary Hero
who am I?
posted February 17, 2010 02:09 PM

EGNO, I won't say it was bad, because one can learn only so much by himself. Instead, I'll say that there is much room for improvement in all areas. General hero build tips, anti-faction specific ones, tactical movement, unit placement and spell usage.
A few, more important pointers:
as Elvin said, you had much more luck than needed since any above +5 isn't affecting lucky strike chances. And since you can get luck from artifacts and miniartifacts you can forget about the Luck skill. With Galib you hardly need Magic Resistance ( I was surprised that the knight actually frenzied Rajas), none of your units benefit from Soldier's Luck, and -1Luck for the enemy is abolutely not worth the investment
Enlightment is vital for the stat boost and coupled with logistics you can get Swift Mind. Logistics on it's own is great and with Swift Mind you get an early cast.
Defense should be an instant pick, be it either for Vitality (1kGremlins and 400Gargs will benefit a LOT from it) and Mass Endurance or Evasion and Last Stand
You didn't use mark of the Wizard in the first game, and in the siege you kept Phantoming Rajas and sending them to the moat instead of copying Gremlins and Mages

There's more but it's important that you incorporate the hints listed above first
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