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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Sylvan Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Sylvan Faction [ This thread is 28 pages long: 1 2 (3) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ]
havenlover
havenlover


Adventuring Hero
posted August 26, 2007 07:15 PM

Quote:
Then you don't know how to play them Any faction that can kill a pack of archangels on week 2 is good in my book.


well your book is pretty short then.  sylvan have all sorts of issues creeping.  
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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 26, 2007 07:22 PM

Haven has more as far as I'm concerned, sylvan can face more neutrals than sylvan can early in the game. Of course that may entail losing a few pixies here and there.
Shooters other than hunters and crossbowmen check.
Slow units check.
Fast melee/flying units check.

Only spellcasters are an issue but that's true for everyone - haven's only advantage is warmachine availability. Sylvan creeping is not just good because of the first 4 tiers but also because of deadeye shot and imbue arrow. To avoid losses you just know which units to leave out in the beginning and how to create diversions that will buy you time that haven cannot reproduce that well.
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We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.

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havenlover
havenlover


Adventuring Hero
posted August 26, 2007 07:34 PM

Quote:
Haven has more as far as I'm concerned, sylvan can face more neutrals than sylvan can early in the game. Of course that may entail losing a few pixies here and there.
Shooters other than hunters and crossbowmen check.
Slow units check.
Fast melee/flying units check.

Only spellcasters are an issue but that's true for everyone - haven's only advantage is warmachine availability. Sylvan creeping is not just good because of the first 4 tiers but also because of deadeye shot and imbue arrow. To avoid losses you just know which units to leave out in the beginning and how to create diversions that will buy you time that haven cannot reproduce that well.


its not even close between haven and sylvan.  and thats considering the sylvan player uses MUCH more sophisticated tactics.  sylvan has no way to reproduce unkillable damage like war machines or wizards/warlocks.  deadeye shot is not the same.  so it needs to have units that do damage out there at all times.  or nothing is gna die.  but they have nothing really to protect these units.  yes u can devise clever strategies against a decent amt of slow walkers.  but who has trouble killing slow walkers?  its like being clever about tying ur shoes.

sylvan creeping isn't good because of a combination of two things.  one they have no tanks before unicorn.  two, its hard to deliver high amts of unkillable damage.  

just look at haven, the other might faction.  it can pick vittorio and ressurect ppl and have war machines and a badass ballista.  once u add that to shield allies+precise shot and ur rolling over everything thats not a caster.  sylvan can't do that, there is no shield allies to protect hunters, and no ballista to do damage if u take hunters out before battle.  you have 4 straight high damage, low hp units that need protecting w/ nothing to protect them.  and all the 6 sprite strategies in the world will fall apart eventually.  

not saying u CAN'T do something clever w/ sylvan, or that ppl haven't done "wow" things.  but overall they suck at creeping, bad, and consistantly against a wide range of opponents, especially if u can't save/load.  

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 26, 2007 07:55 PM
Edited by Elvin at 20:00, 26 Aug 2007.

No idea what that unkillable damage is. Warmachines is another story, if sylvan can get it from a hut it will by far exceed haven's potential. Sylvan needs no tanks in the beginning, just a few dancers/pixies.

Upgrading both archers and footmen(I don't even build them that early ) means less training, less angels or delaying building the cavaliers one week each worse than the other. Done it and regretted it.

Before saying that sylvan's tactics will fall eventually I'd suggest you try them, 76 squires on week 2 with half damage from hunters is pretty impressive and I had no tanks at all.
Sylvan only suffers against a human opponent early - not creeps.

Saving and loading is for those that have not played many games with intensive creeping besides if you put things down haven can deal with a lesser range of opponents. Unless you only play Vittorio but if you play random you'll see what I mean.

Edit: If you wish to talk about specific hero creeping only then try taking on a horde of minotaur guards on day 1 with Vittorio. Ossir can even at lvl 1.
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We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.

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havenlover
havenlover


Adventuring Hero
posted August 26, 2007 08:33 PM
Edited by havenlover at 20:34, 26 Aug 2007.

Quote:
No idea what that unkillable damage is. Warmachines is another story, if sylvan can get it from a hut it will by far exceed haven's potential. Sylvan needs no tanks in the beginning, just a few dancers/pixies.

Upgrading both archers and footmen(I don't even build them that early ) means less training, less angels or delaying building the cavaliers one week each worse than the other. Done it and regretted it.

Before saying that sylvan's tactics will fall eventually I'd suggest you try them, 76 squires on week 2 with half damage from hunters is pretty impressive and I had no tanks at all.
Sylvan only suffers against a human opponent early - not creeps.

Saving and loading is for those that have not played many games with intensive creeping besides if you put things down haven can deal with a lesser range of opponents. Unless you only play Vittorio but if you play random you'll see what I mean.

Edit: If you wish to talk about specific hero creeping only then try taking on a horde of minotaur guards on day 1 with Vittorio. Ossir can even at lvl 1.


unkillable damage is warmachines and magic.  the reason its important is because it reduces reliance on units, allowing you to creep w/ a far smaller army or to substitute out vulnerable units more easily.

and yes I have tried sylvan's tactics, they can fail.  they are the frailest creeping faction.  by far the worst, the slowest w/ the most handicaps.   they can be stymied the easiest, and suffer the most from partial losses of important troops.  anecdotes not withstanding its all true.

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arcanjobra
arcanjobra


Hired Hero
posted August 26, 2007 10:35 PM

Ylthin / War Machine/

1) Which the best sequencia of "skills and spells" pra to follow with "Ylthin"?
_Example:
. Expert Basic Ligth ( Skill1, skill2, etc... )
. Expert Destrutive ( Skill1, skill2, etc... )
etc...

2) I have as to cancel the one choice skill in case that it does not come the one that I want?

3) War Machine is very Good?

4) I have as to cancel the one choice skill in case that it does not come the one that I want?

ps: "Ylthin starts with a First Aid Tent." [ Basic War MAchine is Rare :'( ]

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havenlover
havenlover


Adventuring Hero
posted August 26, 2007 10:53 PM

Quote:
1) Which the best sequencia of "skills and spells" pra to follow with "Ylthin"?
_Example:
. Expert Basic Ligth ( Skill1, skill2, etc... )
. Expert Destrutive ( Skill1, skill2, etc... )
etc...

2) I have as to cancel the one choice skill in case that it does not come the one that I want?

3) War Machine is very Good?

4) I have as to cancel the one choice skill in case that it does not come the one that I want?

ps: "Ylthin starts with a First Aid Tent." [ Basic War MAchine is Rare :'( ]


yes sylvan have a 2% chance of war machines and no1 starts w/ war machines.  so there's no real point in thinking too hard about it.  

w/ sylvan I like to get logistics, light, luck early.  with enlightenment and leadership later.  its great to loadup on luck.  expert luck, magic resistance, soldiers luck, resourcefulness, elven luck, dead man's curse.  I think you can pick em all up.  thats usually why I play sylvan, for that extra fun luck flavor.

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Lord_Axolon
Lord_Axolon

Tavern Dweller
Martian Imperialist
posted August 26, 2007 11:01 PM

Speaking of Luck, did you ever get the ultimate skill, Nature's Luck? I got really close once, just a couple level-ups away...

War Machines is rare for a Sylvan hero to get. During my in-game experience as the Sylvan, none of my heroes ever got War Machines as an option when they gained a level.

If you want both Light magic and Nature's Luck, then Ylthin would, in fact, be good, because she starts with Light Magic. She has the potential to get Nature's Luck, and, yet, she has a nice skill on the side. Vinrael is a nice one for Enlightenment—very nice ability having that said—but not so sure about Leadership... Would be a good skill if you're not pursuing the ultimate skill.
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havenlover
havenlover


Adventuring Hero
posted August 26, 2007 11:17 PM

Quote:
Speaking of Luck, did you ever get the ultimate skill, Nature's Luck? I got really close once, just a couple level-ups away...

War Machines is rare for a Sylvan hero to get. During my in-game experience as the Sylvan, none of my heroes ever got War Machines as an option when they gained a level.

If you want both Light magic and Nature's Luck, then Ylthin would, in fact, be good, because she starts with Light Magic. She has the potential to get Nature's Luck, and, yet, she has a nice skill on the side. Vinrael is a nice one for Enlightenment—very nice ability having that said—but not so sure about Leadership... Would be a good skill if you're not pursuing the ultimate skill.


no, I think the MINIMUM is like lvl 20something and thats w/ all basic skills.  the ultimate abilities are annoying like that.  pursuing the ultimate is usually futile, even though in the sylvan case the ultimate is impressive.

yithin, ossir, wyngaal(if he's not broke) are who i'd take for hero's.



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Lord_Axolon
Lord_Axolon

Tavern Dweller
Martian Imperialist
posted August 26, 2007 11:57 PM

I think my favorite ultimate skills are those of the Academy, Inferno, and Sylvan. Those are the ones worth pursuing, for they'll greatly avail you. The Necropolis is also pretty good, -6 enemy morale, but it's not really my favorite. As for Haven and Dungeon, I would agree that those would be futile.
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arcanjobra
arcanjobra


Hired Hero
posted August 27, 2007 12:52 AM

:/

Still they had not answered me
>.<
I play Ossir ( I Change for yithin ), as I must play with it, therefore the tent does not regenerate nothing and I badly obtain to catch two mines in 1°/2° day.

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havenlover
havenlover


Adventuring Hero
posted August 27, 2007 04:22 AM

Quote:
Still they had not answered me
>.<
I play Ossir ( I Change for yithin ), as I must play with it, therefore the tent does not regenerate nothing and I badly obtain to catch two mines in 1°/2° day.


buy both heroes from the tavern, dump all the units onto ossir.  anything thats a slow walker and u shouldn't lose a unit.  anything that shoots and u might lose some.  but there should be no real contest to actually takeout the mines.
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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2007 05:54 AM

Against shooters use split 7 fodders, imbue arrow with icebolt/arrow/something and it should be enough.  
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arcanjobra
arcanjobra


Hired Hero
posted August 27, 2007 04:14 PM
Edited by arcanjobra at 16:18, 27 Aug 2007.

>:/ ............

* HOW IT IS PLAYED WITH "yithin"?
* it is alone what I want to know?
* catches first and the second mine in how many days, loses troops in this?

=> I you losing the direct troop in the start. E it schemes Dungeon MAINLY has massacreed me.

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted September 02, 2007 04:18 PM

Sounds like something that could work for single player but against a human I have my reservations. Sure, you could rush someone with destructive and sorcery if you get spellpower/elemental boosting arties but that's about it. Sylvan is mostly might - two magic types cannot work.
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We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.

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arcanjobra
arcanjobra


Hired Hero
posted September 02, 2007 06:45 PM

Quote:
Sounds like something that could work for single player but against a human I have my reservations. Sure, you could rush someone with destructive and sorcery if you get spellpower/elemental boosting arties but that's about it. Sylvan is mostly might - two magic types cannot work.

then it says established in as was spoken above, which the strategy to follow in its opinion?

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted September 02, 2007 06:56 PM

No idea what you just said.
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We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.

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havenlover
havenlover


Adventuring Hero
posted September 02, 2007 07:00 PM

Quote:
Sylvan is first of all a very good town, one of the best .
I like to play with Vinrael beacuse at expert Enlitement he gains 132%x normal XP
The skills that i choose:
Expert avenger :Imbued arrow and rain of arrows and sometimes dead-eye shot
Expert luck:Soldiers luck(Hunter's wardind arrw and unicorn's blind)-> Elven luck and Magic resistence(Dead man curse is good but -1 luck is not that much)
Expert destructive magic:Master of fire->Mana burst
Expert light magic:Master of wrath(the attacking part of light magic)->Storm wind(very good)->Fire resistence(again very good)
Expert sorcery:nothing here is good for rangers except counterspell but its hard to get
Expert enlitement:The +1 defence/knoledge every 2 levels is not much but as i said 132%xnormal xp is Veeeery good and allows to pick up theese various skill that lead to my tactic.
Elven creatures are very good at initiative and attack but many (except of my favorite one the Treant )lack the defence.This is not a problem as rangers have a lot of defence.
It is extremeli important to cast spells in combat because of the sorcery.First of all cast Magical imunity to treant.Play defensively dont rush on mlee because your hunters(with high damage high luck chance and high chace of warding)and your druids(If they are in very big numbers simple attack causes much damage than lightning bolt)can defeat enemy casters and ranged attackers.Casters are taking damage from mana burst its easy deal with them.
Then you will play defensively(sylvan way).Try to engage with the treant enemies best creatures to tank.
From skills chosen above you have 65%magical resistence.Try to find Cristal Ice shield that gives 50% in addition to fire resistence.YOU will be Imune to armangedon spelland not receive any fire armor damaging effect thanks to Fire resistance.Next stept is to cast armangedon ecery time hero turns come(Belive me it will come fast)and the enemy unless they have magic resistence wont be able to do nothing about it!
The best creature is the Treant because it can buy very much time since its imune to magics and roots (and therby force )best creature to attack him and he has the defence comand.(-50% from mlee)
Second one is to take master of storms focus your avenger creatures on the one you fight and cast Imbue arrow with Chain lightning.Rain of arrows will deal massive damage to ALL enemy creatures and thanks to master of storm will stun(Realy a throw-back in the initiative barThe creature in cause if this repeats wont fight at all).Artifacts good for tactic number 1henix-Feather Cape And (very important)Shield of crystal Ice.
Artifects good for tactic number 2:Trident of titans and Ring of Lighting protection(Some lightings may attack your creature as well)
Spellpower is very important focus on artifacts with this bonuses.
If the enemy has magic resistance Cast a few armangedons to simply f**k their defence then cast light spells to encourage armies to attack.(MASS HASTE TOOK MY EMERALD TO INITIATIVE 30 ONCE WHEN I FOCUSED ON ARTIFACTS WITH INITIATIVE!!!)
With sylvan i never lost a batle.
I'd like to play with you but i dont have the Original game.
Aniway read again all above and use this tactic.
Tell me how it worked.



couple problems.

1)sylvan have crap for spellpower, even w/ enlightenment.  destructive is great in a rush/short game situation.  throw up imbue/deadeye/icebolt and ur pretty strong.  but later in the game all ur spells will be ninny crap compared to what the real casters can do.

2)treants are immune to magic?

3)if you think 1 luck isn't that much why did you goto expert luck?  all the luck upgrades are "just one more."

4)this is basically a magic hero build.  sorcery/2 schools/enlightenment/luck.  

and defensive is definitely not the sylvan way.  I know when I'm wyngaal that 4(pixie, war dancer, unicorn, emerald dragon) of my melee creatures can cross the entire field and hit someone on the first turn.  high initiative=opposite of defense.


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arcanjobra
arcanjobra


Hired Hero
posted September 03, 2007 02:34 AM

QUESTION topic:

Link (For Sylvan): MAGIC RESIST or DEADMANS CURSE
ps: Using Wingal.

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted September 03, 2007 03:26 AM

Don't go around with links to your questions if someone knows he'll answer..
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We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.

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