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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Dungeon Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Dungeon Faction [ This thread is 11 pages long: (1) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ]
Valeriy
Valeriy

Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
posted April 20, 2006 09:09 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 18:04, 08 Oct 2007.

Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Dungeon Faction

This thread is for discussing the strategy for playing Dungeon in Heroes 5.

To discuss Dungeon heroes in duel mode, go to Warlocks in Duels topic.

Info at AOH: Heroes | Buildings | Creatures | Growth Chart | Skills | Specialties

Strategy Thread Group: Haven | Inferno | Necropolis | Dungeon | Sylvan | Academy | Fortress | Stronghold
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Gom_Jabbar
Gom_Jabbar


Promising
Famous Hero
Revealer of Truth
posted June 02, 2006 06:16 AM

I must say that Dungeon wasn't one of my favorite towns in HOMM3, but I'm begining to like it more and more now. I really think the the title "Warlock" it's begining to take a new meaning. So lets just talk a little bit about this wonderfull faction:

Creatures:

Level 1:
  Scout:
good parts: - best damage for lvl 1 creatures
           - good attack and defense
           - very good health
           - good initiative
           - decent speed
           - no melee penalty
bad parts:  - few shots
conclusion: upgrade them as soon as possible
  Assassin:
good parts: - best damage for lvl 1 creatures
           - good attack and defense
           - very good health
           - good initiative
           - decent speed
           - no melee penalty
           - poisonous attack
bad parts:  - few shots
conclusion: this is definetly the best lvl 1 creature; use them to hit as many enemy creatures for the est use of the poisonous attack ability.

Level 2:
  Blood Maiden:
good parts: - best damage for lvl 2 creatures
           - good attack
           - very good health
           - very good initiative and speed
           - strike and return
bad parts:  - relatively low defense
conclusion: also try to upgrade them as soon as possible
  Blood Fury:
good parts: - best damage for lvl 2 creatures
           - good attack
           - very good health
           - outstanding initiative and speed
           - strike and return  
           - no enemy retaliation
bad parts:  - medium defense            
conclusion: again Dungeon has the best creature of the level; due to the "strike and return" ability and the high speed and initiative you can use them to protect your shooters and deal damage at the other end of the battlefield at the same time.

Level 3:
  Minotaur:
good parts: - good attack
           - good damage
           - medium initiative and speed
           - great health
           - always has good morale
bad parts:  - low defense
conclusion: use them to defend your shooters.
  Minotaur Guard:
good parts: - good attack
           - good damage combined with the double attack ability
           - medium initiative and speed
           - great health
           - always has good morale
bad parts:  - low defense
conclusion: even if they have a very low defense, they compensate with the high health; they can be used to protect shooters or for close-medium ranged combat, due to the high damage.

Level 4:
  Dark Raider:
good parts: - good atack and defense
           - good initiative and speed
           - very good health
           - rider charge ability
bad parts:  ???
conclusion: very good offensive unit, but can also be used for defensive measures.
  Grim Raider:
good parts: - good atack and defense
           - good initiative
           - very good speed
           - very good health
           - rider charge ability
           - lizard bite
bad parts:  ???
conclusion: the rider charge ability combined with the great sped and initiative makes it a powerfull assault unit, and the lizard bite ability also makes it a very good suport unit; use this unit to deal as much damage as possible.

Level 5:
  Hydra:
good parts: - good attack
           - medium defense
           - very good health
           - three headed attack
           - no enemy retaliation
bad parts:  - low damage
           - low initiative and speed
conclusion: meant to be used to protect shooters or to attack betwen more enemies.
  Deep Hydra:
good parts: - very good health
           - five headed attack
           - no enemy retaliation
           - regeneration
bad parts:  - mediocre attack and defense
           - low damage
           - low initiative and speed
conclusion: "to serve and protect"' this must be the sol purpouse af the Hydra.

Level 6:
  Shadow Witch:
good parts: - good damage
           - good initiative
           - decent spells
bad parts:  - low attack and defense
           - low defense
           - few shots
conclusion: relatively loe attack and defense but compensates with some decent damage and array of spells.
  Shadow Matriarch:
good parts: - good damage
           - good initiative
           - decent spells
bad parts:  - low attack and defense
           - low defense
           - few shots
conclusion: not a very big improvement, but nevertheless it's a decent shooter, especially if combined with an ammo cart, wich seems to be a "must" for Dungeon due to the lack of shots of their shooters.

Level 7:
  Shadow Dragon:
good parts: - good damage
           - good health
           - good initiative
           - very good speed
           - flyer
           - fire breath may come in handy
bad parts:  - low attack and defense
conclusion: well... it's a dragon, use it to get to the enemy shooters using the fire breath ability.
  Black Dragon:
good parts: - good improvement in attack and defense
           - good damage
           - good health
           - good initiative
           - very good speed
           - flyer
           - fire breath
           - magic immunity
bad parts:  ???
conclusion: just set your enemies on fire and off the battlefield.

Unlike other factions the growth rate of Dungeon creatures is quite low. They tend to compensate quantity trough quality. High damage, high health points, high speed, all of them aided by the powerfull damaging spells of the warlock makes it the perfect offensive faction. Also lets not forget about the "elemental chains" racial ability wich helps you boost an already high damage of creatures and spells. An warlock, combined with the right skills and abilities can become an unstopable force on the battlefield

=====================================================================
I just thought of putting this post here, since noone did, and there's a link to tis page in the "Table of Contents - Temple of Ashan" sticky thread.

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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 07, 2006 01:24 PM
Edited by Shauku83 at 13:26, 07 Jun 2006.

Taking out Gargoyles.

Surprisingly these almost worthless level 2 creatures are a menace to a Warlock. They are immune to your best damage spells, and your Assassins poison is useless. They are also fast and engage you quikly, enormous HP 20 ensures that they can make some attacks through. Because they fly, low HP Blood Furies are not safe anywhere. Raiders could be there to take some punch, but their big size makes all Gargoyles reach them and gang up on them. To lose Raiders is not an option. A surprising thing is to go for Minotaurs (Kings). Once they take the retaliation, the Assassins should engage the Gargoyles by melee, doing full damage. This has worked surprisingly well with Minotaur Kings, but sometimes there is just too much of them, and you loose a Minotaur or even worse, Furies... Not to mention going for Minotaur Kings early might hinder the town development later on.

Leave them be then, and head for easier fights. Once you build Hydras & Shadow Witches, they become the cure for the Gargoyles. With Rigterous Might & Slow and the lots of HP both of them have, Gargoyles can be taken out clean and without losses with your secondary hero, letting your main keep on fighting somewhere in the distance. Hydras are like made to have Righteous Might, with no retaliation and other creatures being as slow as they are...they shine! Do not take any other creatures with you, or you are likely to suffer casualties. Their combination can also be used against Ranged creatures like Skeleton Archers, who are immune to your Assassins poison.

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TGeorge
TGeorge

Tavern Dweller
Warlock
posted June 07, 2006 01:55 PM

Don't want to be rude....but i have no idea what u are talking about...I never had problems with gargoyles...even though they have high HP they have very low dmg for a lvl 2 unit. I agree it's hader because they fly and can reach u quickly and are immune to poison, but they are not immune to magic for a warlock...there is this thing called Spell Penetration . Even though your spells won't do 100% dmg they still can do some dmg and waiting for hydras and witches is a bit too much...if i have raiders I have no problems with them. It might also depend on the numbers but I don't think you will attack a throng of gargoyles with 20 assasins 10 fury's and 5 riders .
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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 07, 2006 05:54 PM

Well on Heroic there usually is Horde (or almost) of them, and they are immune to cold,fire and air damage so you can't cast those spells on them (only earth). And I am not talking that the battle wouldn't be won, but there easily comes casualties. I have even lost a Raider sometimes, if they gang up on them. (the usual second week army is lots of Assassins, pack of Blood Furies, a few/several Raiders, and/or Minotaurs). What was the main point was that against gargoyles your level 1 & 2 creatures cannot get engaged even against Gargoyles, or they suffer losses. Raiders do so little damage in the beginning that they are not worth the risk of loosing one and Obsidian Gargoyles have speed of 7, while Raiders only 6. Minotaurs also do so little damage that they are only worthy of taking out a retaliation. Your level 1 and 2 do most of the damage (level 2 actually, if not in melee with Assassins). Kings do damage though. It is a tricky fight in Heroic, IMO. Or perhaps I just have to play more

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Vicheron
Vicheron


Known Hero
posted June 07, 2006 09:11 PM

You don't cast destructive spells against Gargoyles, you cast disabling spells against them or you cast blessing spells on your creatures. Gargoyles do very little damage. It takes 30 Gargoyles or 20 Obsidian Gargoyles to kill one Minotaur in one hit. It takes over 40 Gargoyles or 30 Obsidian Gargoyles to kill one Dark Raider in one hit. Pretty much the only second level creature that's less of a threat than the Gargoyle is the Horned Demon.

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Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted June 08, 2006 04:41 PM

In my first HOMMV game, I had as Warlock more problems dealing with sprites than Gargoyles early on. The Gargoyles were no match what so ever for the Blood furies

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Dragoni
Dragoni


Hired Hero
posted July 13, 2006 04:56 AM

What heroes are worth taking? I usually take Sinitar because he has empowered and destruction in the beginning and those are the skills i want to have on my warlock

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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 13, 2006 05:58 AM

Quote:
What heroes are worth taking? I usually take Sinitar because he has empowered and destruction in the beginning and those are the skills i want to have on my warlock


Some people have ranked Heroes here, and you can see what kind of opinions people have :

Rank heroes within each class:

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted July 13, 2006 07:38 AM

if you are a genious combat strategist, try the lizard breeder. Otherwise, go with assassing dude. He starts with luck AND soldier's luck meaning you'll get warlock's luck pretty soon, and he gets LOTS of scouts. With second hero taken and assassin dwelling built fast, he can reach around 45 assassins in day 2. That is quite amazing.

You don't need to take a hero with destruction because its a very common skill for warlock when level-uping. Extra 2 points of mana saved by cheaper empowered spells simply aren't worth quite handicapped earlygame, IMO.

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Klaital
Klaital


Known Hero
posted July 13, 2006 08:21 AM

It is actually a drawback that he starts with lot of scouts, since he starts with ONLY scouts so you will have less blood furies on week 1. I take Sinitar also usually as the fact he starts with empowered spells, destructive magic, and eldritch arrow really helps you to clear out mines week 1.
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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted July 13, 2006 09:02 AM

well, taking him may be good, but it depends on one's luck. If you don't get any knowledge when level-uping, you won't use his empowered spells much. PLUS - empowered spells are still bugged and don't work with warlock's luck, afaik.

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Dragoni
Dragoni


Hired Hero
posted July 14, 2006 12:50 PM

What is your general build strategy? Any good tips?
Like, buy the dragon spire if you have 15k or use that money on creatures instead in early game? do you upgrade creatures before you have all the other dwellings? things like that

of course it depends on map and what resources you get.

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Klaital
Klaital


Known Hero
posted July 14, 2006 01:02 PM

Imo that is one major problem with dungeon that about all of your creatures really really suck before you upgrade them. All of the level 1-5 creatures are rather mandatory to upgrade to be worth anything. I usually try to get the first 3 dwellings + citadel at week 1, then castle and next two dwellings at week 2 at minimum, and the 6th dwelling on week 3. Whether I go for dragons at all depends about the map really, as they are a really big investment.
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Kwon
Kwon

Tavern Dweller
posted July 14, 2006 01:15 PM

Any Empowered Hero usually has no problem with Gargoyles immunities!

Sinitar has it from the start so no problem at all.

Sinitar really makes the Warlocks shine imho!

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Kwon
Kwon

Tavern Dweller
posted July 14, 2006 01:16 PM

Irresistable Magic that is, that's what helps Dungeon vs Gargs et al.

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted July 14, 2006 02:01 PM

sinitar sucks bcuz EMPOWERED SPELLS ARE BUGGED :x

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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 14, 2006 02:56 PM

Yeah I know that my silly Obsidian Gargoyle problem isn't that big if you level up the irresistable magic skill... I just usually don't do it very early

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neoexdeath
neoexdeath


Adventuring Hero
posted July 14, 2006 03:03 PM

Empowered spells don't work with warlock's luck, but it may not be a bug but a feature to keep the game balanced.
Anyway, empowered spells are still much better than warlock's luck.
You need 50% chance to get a lucky cast to have the same damage as empowered spells.
Furthermore, warlock's luck requires luck skill, which some people might not want. Empowered spells require Irresistable Magic, which means it is within reach for every warlock despite of skill plan.
Therefore Empowered Spells is more flexible than Warlock's luck.

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted July 14, 2006 03:17 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 15:18, 14 Jul 2006.

1. Warlock's luck doubles the damage, empowered spells raise it by 50%
2. Luck is the best skill of heroes V, why not to want it?

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