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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Dungeon Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Dungeon Faction This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
darknes
darknes

Tavern Dweller
posted December 28, 2008 11:06 PM

Yrwanna kiks ass .Enlightement is a must for warlock.Blood furies great demage output.nuff sad
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mgph
mgph

Tavern Dweller
posted January 02, 2009 09:41 AM

if Dungeon with no magic ?

I wonder if someone could post some good replays of Dungeon with purely melees(I mean only without Destructive Magic). I hate to admit though that it's my favorite race and also very very hard(at least for me) to beat human players(not AI) with this technique.

I guess someone would argue that's the way to play Dungeon Ubisoft decided but then how come there are creature specialized heroes like Kythra(mino), scout/assa hero and liz bite hero? (sorry for not using names as I don't remember)

Maybe(possibly++) there are some hidden strategies still unfolding and Dungeon gurus like you guys haven't found out.(really mean, cause I've learned alot from you guys - here - just reading the topics)

Yes, using one same strategy is not always right and I just wanna stay away from using magic as far as I can. Cause you know, every time I play H5, I take Dungeon. Then every time I take Dungeon, I've to use Magic (if I wanna win or be challenging for my opp). There are times I lost badly if I try that creature specialized heroes.

From my tiny knowledge, I know that furies+lizard bites, mino double strike+lizard bites, tactic+furies's innitiative, hydra+teleport assault and lizard's charge would be the things you'd say "why don't you use them?". BUT..................
If you take a loot a bit carefully, main two creatures are Furies and Lizards if you wanna play as melee(I know hydra and mino are good but only for play with magic while their bait+meatshield and their inni+useless for final battle make them away from my dream). And, there's no hero guidance spells for these creatures like Resurrection or Armor Spells to be able to resist enemies' targeted strikes on them(most players will target at Furies at first, then Lizards yikes!!!). So, when they're gone, what's left ? Only mana pool (if you play as melee) + useless slow initiative creatures.

Above words are just from my exp and they're not as effective as they should be because maybe I've been using wrongly like not get fixed in time at right place.

So, would you mind asking that in which situation or against which race you guys really wanna recommend to use melee strategies? How and why should I use to win over my oppo? And some typical/sample replays links to learn as well ?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 02, 2009 11:06 AM

Dungeon is pretty good as a melee faction but it has some limits. One is that earlygame it would be foolish to even try when you can simply sweep the floor with the enemy's charred remains. Second is that dungeon has no light and therefore is weak to dark abusers.

However after week 4 it can work as a melee force just as well. Tradeoff is slower creeping and I'm not sure it's the best approach against all factions, for instance half sylvan units could act first and decimate your poor might army leaving you crippled and unable to turn things around. Or a mediocre init faction could get both ring of speed and staff of netherword and slaughter you just the same.

That's the thing, initiative. If you can get some init boosters or use swift mind with mass haste(easily accessed through power of speed) you can wreak havoc. Grim raiders, reds and to some extent furies can dish out some good early damage(hopefully with elemental chains), in fact the former can kill whole stacks with some luck. Light, enlightenment, luck and attack can do wonders - leadership or defense too if you are lucky. It's also possible to make a ballista build like samiekl has pointed out in the past.
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mgph
mgph

Tavern Dweller
posted January 02, 2009 11:37 AM

Quote:
Dungeon is pretty good as a melee faction but it has some limits. One is that earlygame it would be foolish to even try when you can simply sweep the floor with the enemy's charred remains. Second is that dungeon has no light and therefore is weak to dark abusers.


ya, I totally agree and that's why we can say there's almost no hero's backup for the creatures. Tough to lose for creeping and if lose, will hurt badly as slow growth rate. Is there somebody wanna advise to avoid this ?

Quote:
However after week 4 it can work as a melee force just as well. Tradeoff is slower creeping and I'm not sure it's the best approach against all factions, for instance half sylvan units could act first and decimate your poor might army leaving you crippled and unable to turn things around. Or a mediocre init faction could get both ring of speed and staff of netherword and slaughter you just the same.


I doubt the fact that Tradeoff is slower creeping because I'm pretty sure Stalker's Invis and fight in close combat + Hero Melee Attack is effective and decent if compare with other factions' having to use meatshield(like peasants, pixies, demons) though it's not as fast as creeping with magic and maybe slower than that but cannot say slower than other factions.

Quote:
That's the thing, initiative. If you can get some init boosters or use swift mind with mass haste(easily accessed through power of speed) you can wreak havoc. Grim raiders, reds and to some extent furies can dish out some good early damage(hopefully with elemental chains), in fact the former can kill whole stacks with some luck. Light, enlightenment, luck and attack can do wonders - leadership or defense too if you are lucky. It's also possible to make a ballista build like samiekl has pointed out in the past.


can I have that link(samiekl's ballista build) to check it?

anyway, thanks so much and I'm still finding ways to play Dungeon as melee

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 02, 2009 11:56 AM
Edited by Elvin at 14:05, 02 Jan 2009.

Well you can still use destructive with enlightenment bonus, it will just not be ANYWHERE close to a destructive caster's potential. For instance in let's fight I could take down 37 emerald dargons week 2 at lvl 17(empowered fireball + ignite). That is impossible with melee build but let's fight is not a balanced map anyway, normally you don't have to fight such crazy neutrals early. I prefer the middle solution if you want to play might, destructive is always good to have even for the fireball's armour breaking effect you just don't have to focus it. The warlock's spellpower would go to waste without a magic type. Summoning, dark and light are also definite possibilities with the right spells.

I don't remember where samiekl mentioned it but it's mix and match anyway. All skills can have a use for a warlock, many possible variations. He liked to have both destructive, flaming arrows and triple ballista for maximum first turn mayhem I bet the other two skills were enlightenment and logs.
In my duel map I had tried flaming with summoning to block incoming enemies while ballista shot from afar and a phoenix that helped against those that slip through.

Edit:
I tried a semi-magic warlock with destructive, enlight, luck, warmachines and attack vs sylvan Worked just fine though we had disconnection before the end.

Replay.
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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mgph
mgph

Tavern Dweller
posted January 03, 2009 06:34 AM

Wow, thanks Elvin, got a chance to watch a great match.

Hmm I wonder why Unicorn are not the one with Magic Resistance AOE if the opp is Dungeon. My friend usually take Silver Unicorn and place them near AA and Druid for against Magic. And though irresistible magic can hit but not fully like that. And also how come blade dancer stack is so few(should be hundred above IMO if hero level is 21) ? Anyway, just my opinion and not enough skill to criticize grats Elvin, I'm sure you'll win

I'm trying Might + Summoning combo with Dungeon and it's much better than using Might only.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 03, 2009 01:07 PM
Edited by Elvin at 13:10, 03 Jan 2009.

I had silver unicorns but could also consider pristines. No resistance but double resurrection can be lovely, also if they are the target of the resurrection they get double the hp raised. Also staying back with unicorns to protect druids and arcanes is slow death. For starters they should NEVER be close so if arcanes die you still have the druids and so on. Also you are better off sending them into the fray to kill dungeon army than hope resistance triggers, sylvan's gameplay depends on the units dishing good damage before they die and unicorns in the back are a waste of offensive potential.

Blade dancers are definitely not few, this is a week 5 army and the level is preset. It's from my duel map so week 5 comes from one town, no dwellings. Most maps finish around week 4-5 so the dancers are about right, also lvl 21 you typically hit on week 3 - maybe week 2 if you are really good and the map allows for fast expansion and leveling. By week 2 maximum level ranges from 15 to 20, especially if you have a good creeping faction. That said I have in mind toh maps.
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted January 03, 2009 01:35 PM

Dungeon's ballista is the best in the game if it's sustained by right skills and artifacts. Triple flaming ballista with enlightenment, destruction and logistics is the standard build, with artifacts enhancing attack, luck and knowledge. Not picking destruction or summoning it's a waste of spellpower. And warlock sustains pretty well the dungeon army with master of fire.

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SeLu87
SeLu87


Adventuring Hero
Grudgebearer
posted January 03, 2009 01:40 PM

samiekl, I don´t think Triple Flamming Ballista is a good idea. 10 levels only for that, I particularly think that are best choices in the Warlock´s way

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted January 03, 2009 01:44 PM

Like?

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mgph
mgph

Tavern Dweller
posted January 03, 2009 02:23 PM

hmm Dungeon's triple ballista  is the best ? a bit strange to me (maybe because I'm noob). But isn't Sylvan imbue arrow + spells + triple ballista + favored units more powerful ? Yes, very few chance to get that way but once you got, it's unstoppable IMO.

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mgph
mgph

Tavern Dweller
posted January 03, 2009 02:27 PM

hmm Dungeon's triple ballista  is the best ? a bit strange to me (maybe because I'm noob). But isn't Sylvan imbue arrow + spells + triple ballista + favored units more powerful ? Yes, very few chance to get that way but once you got, it's unstoppable IMO.

And can you tell roughly at what level I'd have such spells with which hero if time and luck are on my side ? I never play matches longer than 3 hours, usually got bored and so, if this strategy suit for small maps, I wanna try.

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted January 03, 2009 02:27 PM

Well, you mean ballista + hero in sylvan's case, which it's not the same.

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted January 03, 2009 02:35 PM

Quote:
And can you tell roughly at what level I'd have such spells with which hero if time and luck are on my side ? I never play matches longer than 3 hours, usually got bored and so, if this strategy suit for small maps, I wanna try.


I had this build with Eruina and Vayshan, didn't try it with others, but any hero is good, though not for this build. Yrbeth is good in necro style, pure magic with dark and summoning, Lethos is good with destruction and dark, Eruina, Vayshan and Sorgal are good in a might n magic mix, Sinitar, Yrwanna and Kythra can play in any way, they are perhaps the most flexible dungeon heroes. I don't usually play small maps but yes ballista is very good in small maps, especially when it's combined with destruction.

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SeLu87
SeLu87


Adventuring Hero
Grudgebearer
posted January 03, 2009 03:14 PM

Quote:
Like?


Defense, Sorcery...

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted January 03, 2009 03:47 PM

Here's how it is... defense is useless in creeping and while sorcery speeds up hero's casting, triple flaming ballista can do even more damage than hero's implosion. Compare hero's casting with 13 initiative with hero's casting with 10 initiative and triple flaming ballista. Which version deals more damage per turn?

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SeLu87
SeLu87


Adventuring Hero
Grudgebearer
posted January 03, 2009 03:50 PM
Edited by SeLu87 at 15:52, 03 Jan 2009.

yeah, in creeping could be useless, but when you face an human opponent, and he realizes that you have triple flamming ballista, probably with one centaur´s or arcane archers shot, and one hit more (very common when you´re facing Wyngaal or Haggash, even Kragh) the ballista will be destroyed.

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted January 03, 2009 03:53 PM

Which means that they won't target the creatures and i have one more turn to use creatures and spells.

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SeLu87
SeLu87


Adventuring Hero
Grudgebearer
posted January 03, 2009 03:55 PM

yep... expensive way, wasting 10 levels.

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted January 03, 2009 04:04 PM



Not at all, if your ballista is destroyed you practically "waste" 3 levels, not 10, because tent is still there, also attack suits dungeon very well. And those 3 levels which are "wasted" are not really wasted since your creatures with expert attack and good attack stats plus luck deal a lot of damage and if arcanes/centaurs shoot ballista in 1st turn, it'll be the only action they take in the whole fight because they won't live to see the 2nd round. dungeon's weak spot is their low survival and ballista compensates for it. I wouldn't call a "waste" something that allows me to win games.

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