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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: What town is most likely to appear in the expansions?
Thread: What town is most likely to appear in the expansions? This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
TDL
TDL


Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted June 09, 2006 09:56 PM
Edited by TDL at 22:14, 09 Jun 2006.

which facion is which?

Primarily, the cause of why I am adressing this matter is that yesterday, after reading the interview with Fabrice Cambounet, I made myself browse the Age of Heroes gallery and info to find what hints were already there (Fab said that there are already some of them in the game).

Thus, after some time I found "deluxe edition" section with the Ashan map inside. And my doubts about upcoming factions just did not seem to diminish...

You can view the map here.

Two locations, which are not of the factions of original H5, are outlined there - Ranaar and Grimheim.

As of yet, one doubt has already turned into a belief - a dwarven (or something connected to the dwarves) one is truly going to appear and thumbs up for Grimheim. About Ranaar - I might only make a wild guess.

EDIT - @gnoll and others:

the map link - here

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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted June 09, 2006 09:59 PM

Well supposedly Nagas in 'Sanctuary' will be the second town (see earlier in this thread), but this doesn't seem to fit with Ranaar. So I don't know whether to guess Nagas or something else (ranaar sounds a little like a barbarian faction, maybe orcs...)
Now I'm wondering when this new info will be released.
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ComradeX
ComradeX


Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
posted June 09, 2006 11:58 PM

Well, the Elven motto goes like this (official info):"we dance to the rythem of the world" and the core Philosophy is "live and let live".
That sounds pretty lawfull to me... and inferno being "lawfull evil"...
is there such a thing at all? are they not supported enough by chaos? isn't it enough that many of their creatures (like devil, nightmare) and skills (such as gating) are powered up and "made" by chaos? isn't thier core philosophy "Might makes Right. conquer, plunder and rape the weak, laugh when you’re wounded or tortured, indulge yourself in selfish pleasures, spread anarchy and chaos, corrupt the righteous" enough to say they are chaotic evil? IMO they are pure, chaotic evil, which only seeks death and destruction for everybody else. The Dungeoun are not that evil... they do hate the Sylvan Elves, want to avenge them, and like plunder and conspiracy, but they just want to be left alone to live their lives, that's why they fled underground... thet signed a packt with the evil faceless just to survive... the way I see it, they are corrupt elves that were made evil because they had no choice, and will only be evil when they have to. In contrast to the Inferno, they do not with to kill every body, but only to survive and be left alone to live thier lives the way they want. They are not truly evil, but rather...
missunderstood...
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 10, 2006 01:45 PM

All the alignment thing should not be taken too much at face value. Alignment is a concept from D&D Role Playing and other systems, that might and might not transfer to this game.

In the traditional scheme, there are too parameters of alignment, good vs. evil and lawfull vs. chaotic, and of course each being possibly neutral, thus giving rise to the nine combinations. Animals are per default Neutral - an animal has no sense of good and evil or law and chaos. Beasts are not the same as animals, and Beasts will have alignments. Some typically incline towards evil - examples of evil beasts are Minotaurs, Hydras and Cerberi - while others incline towards good - for example Unicorns and Griffins. One common thing for Animals and Beasts is that they don't form societies like the Humanoids.

Humanoids include Humans, Elves, Dark Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, Orcs and Ogres. Humanoids tend to live in societies. Typically, Dwarves are stongly associated with the Lawfull alignment, with a very strong hierarcic society. In the contrary, Elves typically incline towards Chaos, being more in tune with the chaotic ways of nature, where nothing is ever quite organized. Both Elves and Dwarves are good creatures as a rule of thumb, and the common alignment of Dwarves and Elves would be Lawfull Good and Chaotic Good, respectively. Orcs thrive in chaos and destruction, and would typically be Chaotic Evil - the traditional myth would have Orcs created as evil mutations of the Elves. Dark Elves, similarly, were outcasts from the Elven Society and tend towards Chaotic Evil. The ever fikle Humans tend to be all over the place, depending on proficiency and, especially, religion. Typical alignments would be Lawfull Good (paladins), Neutral Good (holy priests), Lawful Neutral (judges), Chaotic Neutral (thieves) and Neutral Evil (Necromancers).

Outsiders are creatures from other planes of existing than the regular world. That would be Celestial outsiders (Heavenly), which would be good (Angels, Solars and their minions), or Infernal (Devils) and Demonic outsiders, which are evil. Both the celestial and the infernal planes have a very strong hierarchi, and align as Lawfull Good and Lawfull Evil, respectively. Diabolic creatures, on the other hand, are typically Chaotic Evil, and are actually enemies of the Infernal creatures. Creatures from the Elemental planes will usually be true neutral.

Finally, the Dragons will be either Good (Metallic Dragons) or Evil (Chromatic Dragons), and will be either Chaotic or Lawfull depending on their sub-class (green and blue dragons would be lawfull evil; black, blue and red dragons would be chaotic evil; brass and copper dragons would be chaotic good; bronze, silver and gold dragons would be lawfull good).

___________________________________________________


To transfer all this to the Heroes World is not that easy, especially not for Heroes V (it was much easier for Heroes IV, where the concepts of Order and Chaos were directly implemented). Classifying Haven, Academy and Sylvan as good and giving them each one alignment would pretty much nail them down at Lawful Good, Neutral Good and Chaotic Good, respectively. Similarly, the Inferno, Necropolis and Dungeon would probably align as Lawfull Evil, Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil, in spite of the trouble with doing Infernal and Demonic creatures in the same town. There is not necessarily any truth in this, because the developers might not have intended Alignment to be a feature of the game at all.

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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted June 10, 2006 11:31 PM
Edited by Gnoll_Mage at 23:32, 10 Jun 2006.

So - infernal / demonic - what's the difference?
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 11, 2006 12:03 AM

The Infernal and the Demonic planes are two different planes of existence - just like the Celestial plane (=Heaven) and the Infernal plane (=Hell) are different. You could say that grouping Devils and Demons in one town is as bad as grouping Angels and Devils in the same.

Of course, there might seem to be less of a difference for us, with our current understanding of Devils and Demons, it's just an excellent example as to how concepts of established RPG universes cannot be implementet directly into the world of Heroes.

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Miru
Miru


Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
posted June 13, 2006 02:48 AM

This might have been mentioned before, I dont want to have to read all of the prevoius 6 pages, but the dwarves will almost definnantly be in as they are mentioned theoughout the game multiply times, but the thing I think that may have gone unnoticed is week of the wyrm 'a week when the weekly Wyrm production used to double, before they were totaly exterminated'. Wyrms may have been hidden deep in the dwarven caverns, and are their 7th tier unit.
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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted June 13, 2006 04:50 PM

So what are the references to Dwarves? One is with Isabel at some point isn't it?
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 13, 2006 08:29 PM

Quote:
So what are the references to Dwarves? One is with Isabel at some point isn't it?



The Myth of Creation mentions the Dwarves as one of the 6 original mortal races (which is also one of the few refferences to the Naga we get):

Quote:
"Born from the Void, the Cosmic egg appears and hatches, freeing the twin Dragons of Order and Chaos.
  ASHA, the Primordial Dragon of Order creates the world by giving it shape and purpose.
  She then gives birth to the Elemental Dragons who are destined to guide and rule her creation.
  The mortal races are created as “servants of the Dragon Gods”, and placed upon the earth. Each chooses its gift and its patron.
The radiant Angels choose ELRATH, the Dragon of Light.
The mysterious Faceless choose MALASSA, the Dragon of Shadow.
The quiet and meditative Elves choose SYLANNA, the Dragon of Earth.
The proud and sturdy Dwarves choose ARKATH, the Dragon of Fire.
The wise reptilian Nagas choose SHALASSA, the Dragon of Water.
The curious, restless Humans choose last and select SYLATH, the Dragon of Air."




Furthermore, in the calender (notice, this is also where we learn of the Orcs first time):

Quote:
330 YSD: 1st Eclipse - War of the Blood Moon
– Creation of the Orcs

A total lunar eclipse provokes a massive rupture of the Demon Prison. The Demon Lords force their way out and raven across Elven lands. Human and Dwarven armies are rallied to meet them, but, caught by surprise, they are rapidly overwhelmed.

Called upon for assistance, the wizards of the Seven Cities send their forces into battle. They experiment with demon blood, which they inoculate into human slaves and criminals. The monstrous Orcs are created as a result.



And again, later:

Quote:
586 YSD: Establishment of the Second Dark Elf kingdom on the borders of Dwarf territory
...

684-702 YSD: War Under the Mountains
The Dwarves enter into open conflict with the Dark Elves. As the war turns against the Dark Elves, exiled Demonists from the Seven Cities make contact with Tuidhana's sons, who now rule in her place. They offer assistance in exchange for worship.



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detheroc
detheroc


Adventuring Hero
noticed my 2 weeks miss?
posted June 13, 2006 08:49 PM

Well, Barbarian of course; according to the storyline they would be the rebellious humans who left the Empire and headed to the east(or smth like that, ain't sure...), and this is also the town that I would mostly like to reappear.

Btw, what sort of creatures would a Beasman town have .And if there would be a Orc town , guess the stronghold wopuld lose the orcs, huh?

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Silverhawk5504
Silverhawk5504


Hired Hero
The Forsaken One
posted June 13, 2006 09:24 PM

What are you talking about ... The Stronghold is just being renamed into an Orc town (just like Fortress is now Sylvaan town).

Also, beastman town is less likely to appear as there is no history
for it's existence in the storyline.  

I'm loving the factual support for existence of Dwarf and Naga towns...
makes me laugh at all the crackers in these 6 pages of posts who have thought that the 2 races wouldn't exist ... I can't belive
people would actually argue with practically concrete evidence in their faces...

Thanks to everyone who have made this thread based on facts...
my hat goes off to you...
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~Dima

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detheroc
detheroc


Adventuring Hero
noticed my 2 weeks miss?
posted June 13, 2006 11:07 PM

In the poll there are two different option:"orc town" AND "stronghold remake(not orc)".I haven't read all 6 pages to see if any description is available but my guess is the orc town would consist of orcs, ogres etc, while the new barbarian would probably contain the remaining creatures(centaures, harpies, rocs, cyclops etc).Anyways, I reamain with my old-school barbarian town .

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 14, 2006 08:48 AM

Detheroc > A lot of the information listed here in the last threats was not available and/or people were not aware of it, when the poll was made. I don't *know* anything, but based on all the evidence from the oficial material, it seems overly likely, that the Barbarian Town will makes it appearance in the shape of an Orc Town. I base this on several refferences, such as this:

Quote:
467-504 YSD: The Orc Crusades
Orcish rebellion in the Seven Cities, which spreads to Haven.
Rejecting their masters and the Dragon Gods, the Orcs declare themselves free.
In the Falcon Empire, Crusades are declared against the Orcs – attempts to subjugate them and convert them back to dragon worship. The fighting is brutal, and the Orcs are relentlessly driven back. Eventually, the unrepentant survivors flee wherever they can, including the deserts of the south, the steppes of the north-east and the Barrier Islands of the east.


Furthermore, we get this about the Dragon Of Air:

Quote:
SYLATH, The Dragon of AIR
The silvery-white dragon of Air is the keeper of secrets, for he sees all and hears all. However, he is frivolous (“flighty”) and impetuous.
He values quick thinking and spontaneity, but also useless complexity, which sometimes leaves him frustrated and condescending toward his older siblings, who just don’t “get it”.

He is mostly worshipped by travellers, bards, spies, but also mummers, courtiers, rakes and thieves, and even some wizards (for his extensive arcane knowledge but also his tendency to make even the simpler facts appear “hermetic”).

He is the patron deity of the Humans (the youngest race, as he is the youngest dragon) but has been supplanted by his elder brother Elrath, the Dragon of Light, in the Holy Griffin Empire.

Sylath is still very popular among the Northern Barbarian tribes and Eastern Free Cities however (not united enough to form a faction).



Which first of all makes mention of the Barbarians (who at this point aren't united, but will the future change this fact) and furtheremore seems to tie a connection between these Barbarians to those 'eastern free cities' which might relate to where those Orcs fled.

Admitted, it's not bulletproof, but it would make a very sensible connection, because the Barbarian theme was always connected to the beastly humanoids (goblins, orc, ogres, cyclops).

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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted June 15, 2006 11:30 PM
Edited by Gnoll_Mage at 23:30, 15 Jun 2006.

So now the likeliest towns are Naga, Dwarf and Orc/Barbarian/Stronghold/Human type town. Evidence suggests Dwarves will at least be partly underground so this particular bias of the Dwarves is probably the most likely to appear.

Quote:
just like Fortress is now Sylvaan town

Eh?

Quote:
what sort of creatures would a Beasman town have?

There's an ICTC example which did well under that name, but my feeling is that such a faction would not be united enough - the troops would be too 'jumbled'.

Quote:
Also, beastman town is less likely to appear as there is no history
for it's existence in the storyline.

Centaurs being mentioned was basically the only piece of evidence I think (anyone can confirm this?)

Quote:

I haven't read all 6 pages to see if any description is available


Someone already asked why I did that, I guess it was, as you said, to stress one town as Orc based, possibly with some new creatures, and another with other traditional Stronghold Creatures, but maybe an Orc in the background. I'd have changed it if I could!

It seems barbarians could be Steppe-associated again (?); Dwarves underground. Is there a reference somewhere to Orcs fleeing to the 'Barrier islands'? Is this significant?
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RTI
RTI


Adventuring Hero
Now known as Rarensu
posted June 17, 2006 09:31 PM
Edited by RTI at 21:33, 17 Jun 2006.

I voted stonghold based on my analysis of the distribution of flavors. There is a distinct lack of barbarianism in the current town setup. If Nival knows anything, they will try to build a complete flavor pie (excuse my unique terminology).

In retrospect, however, I am leaning towards dwarves due to the history Nival has built which seems to include dwarves.

However, this still does not negate the fact that all the other flavor slots have been taken. Therefore, I decided to split the difference. My final vote would be for a dwarven town with an emphasis on barbarianism. (for those of you MTG players, see the dwarven/barbarian communities of the pardic mountains in Oddysey block)





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Sincerely,
A Proponent of Spelling, Grammar, Punctuation, and Courtesy.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 17, 2006 10:11 PM

There is also hints of an Orc town in the Nival history, just like the Dwarf world. A barbarian town would seem likely also. After all, one does not exclude the other.

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TDL
TDL


Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted June 17, 2006 10:39 PM

Quote:
There is also hints of an Orc town in the Nival history, just like the Dwarf world. A barbarian town would seem likely also. After all, one does not exclude the other.


Heard no mention of it but i have just started Haven campaign (finished campaign mission number 2 and what did Isabel say:

.... as if Crag Hack himself was on our heels....

That somehow reminds me of the barbarians
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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted June 17, 2006 11:50 PM

Why did they do that? Why bother? To make us smile? It seems a bit strange, although I guess there's nothing wrong with subtly saying thank you to the original game creators.
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Crashnburn
Crashnburn


Hired Hero
posted June 24, 2006 01:46 AM

Random Thoughts

I was thinking about some of the points people have brought up regarding clues that maybe in the creation story as well as the history as to what we can expect from future expansions.  These are just some random thoughts I wanted throw out there and see if anybody has any input.

Naga
Pretty excited that this town will probably be water based since their dragon is water, because it probably means that the Sorceress hero will be making a return.  Don't ask me why, because I know her town lived on, but I'm pretty excited that this hero hasn't been lost to the ages.

Dwarves
I like the idea of dwarves having their own faction, but I have to say I think some people are in for a suprise.  Nival sticks pretty close to some of the establish myth around fantasy world so I was wondering why they gave them the Dragon of Fire.  Especially since the dragon reflects something about their life style.  Sylvan = Earth, Haven = Light, etc.  So why did Nival give the dwarves fire?Dwarves live underground/in mountains, are miners, and are strong and stubborn but slow.  Those are pretty much the sums Dwarven characteristics.  None of those screams out "fire"... unless you consider the one other thing dwarves are known for.  Smithing.  Dwarves are known to be smithies.  I have a strong feeling that the dwarven town is going to be the Dwarven Forge.  *pauses for a moment to allow all the "technology doesn't fit with Heroes of Might & Magic" haters to scream in outrage*  Having said that I trust Nival to do the right thing and I am interested to see what they come up with.  I'm sure they will keep the tech down to a minimum and when they do use it I'm sure it will fit in in the fantasy world they have created.

Speaking of the dwarves' Dragon of Fire, this brings me to my next point which the "they're too many dragons in the game" people won't like.  All the towns that are aligned with an elemental dragon have dragons as their respective level 7 creature.  Sylvan = green dragons, Dungeon = black dragons.  (Haven doesn't count because although they worship the dragon of light it is not technically their dragon.  Elrath chose angels as its followers hence why angels are Haven's ultimate creatures.)  So, I'm thinking that might mean that the dwarves' ultimate creature will be a red dragon and the naga will probably have a water dragon/sea serpent/leviathan as their ultimate creature.  

Orcs
Very glad to hear they weren't forgotten in the mythology.  I wouldn't be suprised to see the Barbarian Stronghold return at all.

Humans
Somebody pointed out that Humans' dragon is the Dragon of Air earlier.  And I found it interesting that the human cities to the east worship the dragon but right now are not an organized force.  It makes me wonder if we might see another human faction in the future possibly with an asian/eastern flair.


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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 24, 2006 12:16 PM

I agree with you on most of this - however, I don't think you should take this thing with worshiping the Dragons to litteraly - I don't think all these towns will have a Dragon as their level 7 unit. It's more in line of a religion and philosophy, I think.

And I do agree with you that the Naga might meen a return of the Sorceress (other topic).

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