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Rune_B
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 05, 2006 03:41 PM |
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I miss a Town Portal spell to access any friendly town, multiple times in one turn. Of course, with appropriate specialization ... like it was in H3. Or it was considered to overpowered...
IMO it is a good ultimate race ability for a new barbarian hero …with Adventure Magic school specialization on Expert level...in the first exp pack
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7x
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 05, 2006 07:24 PM |
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Edited by 7x at 19:27, 05 Jul 2006.
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Quote:
I miss a Town Portal spell to access any friendly town, multiple times in one turn. Of course, with appropriate specialization ... like it was in H3. Or it was considered to overpowered...
there's no Town Portal anymore?  (I haven't had a chance to play a lot of H5 yet). what about Dimension Door, is that still around?
I'd say overall I'm very happy with Heroes V, but I'm a little disappointed in the new dungeon city. The Dark Elf thing is kinda cool, but I miss creatures like trogs, beholders/evil eyes, and manticores.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 05, 2006 07:27 PM |
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there is a town portal spell, quite well-balanced imo.
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kreszantas
Adventuring Hero
TOH Coordinator
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posted July 05, 2006 08:20 PM |
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the town portal spell is in.. Under a travel spell and it only takes you to the closet town from what I have been able to do with it, now I am not sure what the Dimension Door (from H3) replacements name is right now but it has a very severly limited 1/2 of available move limitation to it. Both these spells are 4th and 5th level and are a complete waste of time to build to get in your mage guilds if this is what you end up with.
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Professional Sarcastic, never underestimate the value of truth as being only your point of view.
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Rune_B
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 06, 2006 08:39 AM |
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I agree with you. With his actual form you can’t control your destination and this makes the spell a little weak. Is still useful but not how it could be.
Back is H3 I had a winning strategy with logistic and earth magic as a must. Maximum specialization on Earth magic permits you to use Town portal multiple times, with low mana and moves cost, AND control your destination. Add to this logistic! And if you could get air magic too for dimension door and mass haste…
Perhaps Nival figured out how powerful it could be and didn’t allow more than one casting in one turn and control over destination.
IMO it still could be a very good ultimate ability for the barbarian or the fortress hero.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 06, 2006 09:31 AM |
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Of course you CAN choose the destination, just use your brain and block all towns except the one you want to tp to with heroes. :]
And it's great that they nerfed it, TP was completely broken, once you've got it, the game was over - that's why it was banned in many events. Now at least you have to pay for those heroes to block cities to select destination.
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Rune_B
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 06, 2006 11:12 AM |
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Quote:
Of course you CAN choose the destination, just use your brain and block all towns except the one you want to tp to with heroes. :]
And it's great that they nerfed it, TP was completely broken, once you've got it, the game was over - that's why it was banned in many events. Now at least you have to pay for those heroes to block cities to select destination.
Well, this was the first thing I tried but if the nearest town was occupied then the spell was not even highlighted… …in my spell book. So I could not cast it. I wonder if you tried it and if it worked for you?
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G3
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 06, 2006 05:32 PM |
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Edited by G3 at 17:35, 06 Jul 2006.
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Disappointing features:
- Lack of caravans
- One hero per army - no more specialized heroes.
- No heroes in combat
- No armies without heroes, no heroes without armies
- Tedious subsidiary buildings (waterwheels, windmills, creature buildings, etc..)
- Sluggish graphics engine
- Fugly jrpg style graphics oddly reminiscent of the crap WarC 3 (sword wielding vampires? FFS. Big, fat liches with uhh...skirts? No thank you.)
- Restricted primary skills (eg. no necromancy for inferno hero or training for necromancer) - Instead of full restriction, weaker skills available for all (at least of some of the skills).
- Squared & too small battlefield, castle sieges are a laugh too (walls and ramparts are decorations and as a defender I can't place my units everywhere within the walls).
- Sequential retaliation instead of simultaneous retaliation makes big stacks that much more powerful
- Some of the abilities are inane and utterly useless (being a prerequisite doesn't make an ability useful, just necessary).
- Only one level for abilities leading to more inanities (eg. basic attack & archery combo 5% & 20% increase respectively instead of basic-expert attack & basic-expert archery)
- Artifacts are mostly boorish (Dragon's this, Dragon's that) and the slots are limited.
- Spells - Too few, too dull, too unbalanced
- All seeing & cheating AI that still manages to be incredibly stupid.
- Where's me Fog of War?
- Where's me jelly knees (ie. messages when visiting different places)?
- Where's me mobile guards?
- Where's me map editor?
- Where's me playable co-op MP game?
- Bugs
Heroes 5 = Watered down & buggy HoMM III 3D Lite...
Still...It's curiously addictive even if it's nowhere as good as IV or III.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 06, 2006 05:53 PM |
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Hello G3.
Quote:
Disappointing features:
- No heroes in combat
That was a retarded idea IMO and I'm very happy that it disappeared. You like to travel with a grave 75% of the time? Or never use your spells bcuz you are eliminated by a band of devils in the first turn without a chance to do a thing?
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- Fugly jrpg style graphics oddly reminiscent of the crap WarC 3 (sword wielding vampires? FFS. Big, fat liches with uhh...skirts? No thank you.)
I insist you to care for other ppl opinion when making such statements. I love w3 graphics and liches with skirts look awesome to me. It's a matter of taste
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- Sequential retaliation instead of simultaneous retaliation makes big stacks that much more powerful
Again, a matter of taste AND a limitter of frustration. Did you like losing melee creatures every fight bcuz of the "simultaneous reatl thing"?
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- Some of the abilities are inane and utterly useless (being a prerequisite doesn't make an ability useful, just necessary).
Agree here. Most of the ultimates require total crap, making them campaing-only tools, never seen online.
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- Only one level for abilities leading to more inanities (eg. basic attack & archery combo 5% & 20% increase respectively instead of basic-expert attack & basic-expert archery)
Thank God they introduced that. Reaching grandmaster in anything in h4 was impossible in most maps, who cares for skills you can't get? (or you need 487598024237026526 exp points to get)
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- All seeing & cheating AI that still manages to be incredibly stupid.
Yes, cheating AI is a terrible flaw  in h3, it was at least decent.
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- Where's me Fog of War?
Taken out because it was a not-very-much-liked idea, maybe? 
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- Where's me jelly knees (ie. messages when visiting different places)?
After seeing them 35279592376 times in h3, I thank God again that they decided not to introduce them here
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- Where's me mobile guards?
Whoops, ended my turn too close to that stack of black dragons. Bye bye, three hours of playing.
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Still...It's curiously addictive even if it's nowhere as good as IV or III.
How can it be worse than 3 if it has everything h3 had (except for mapeditor which is under development and scorebord which will hopefully re-appear in the future?) PLUS many new and cool things? It may be worse than WoG in terms of ingame depth, but NOT than h3.
Regards!
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IceQueen
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 06, 2006 09:12 PM |
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no allied maps, no map editor, no random map generator, and most importantly, not enough maps. the game loses replay value really fast without different maps.
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G3
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 09, 2006 01:50 PM |
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Edited by G3 at 13:57, 09 Jul 2006.
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Quote:
That was a retarded idea IMO and I'm very happy that it disappeared. You like to travel with a grave 75% of the time? Or never use your spells bcuz you are eliminated by a band of devils in the first turn without a chance to do a thing?
You can protect units in 4 much better than in 3 or 5 (eg. by blocking archers or casters line of fire). Also, no melee unit without a hero could travel across the screen to attack your backliners (at least directly).
Besides multiple heroes in an army allowed for shared XP which made fighting battles even with level capped hero benefical (because of the groupie) making campaigns that much more bearable or allowed for faster level growth in average than with a single hero. Not to mention ability to make specialized heroes instead of giving everyone attack, defence, <some magic skill> & luck like you do in 5.
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Again, a matter of taste AND a limitter of frustration. Did you like losing melee creatures every fight bcuz of the "simultaneous reatl thing"?
Yes - Because in HoMM 5 a high initiative & speed offensive stack can practically eliminate one of opponent's large creatures in the first turn without taking any (or many) casualties - This is especially frustrating for Liches: The best stack in the game which rarely manages to do anything useful.
In HoMM4 you had ways of protecting your units with spells or using units according to unit specialty like no retaliation, strike & return, first strike or breath attack.
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Thank God they introduced that. Reaching grandmaster in anything in h4 was impossible in most maps
With a bit of luck and proper class you could reach GM pretty easily.
However, the sheer amount of skills available made almost every hero unique: Unless you soloed (one hero, one army) through an XL map against computer on impossible with huge amount of big neutral armies and bonus structures you couldn't max every skill - And even if you managed to max all the skills you couldn't choose every skill.
Then there were the classes which IMO brought a lot of character to heroes instead of faceless, tasteless spellflingers they're in 5.
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Taken out because it was a not-very-much-liked idea, maybe?
Aye, it probably added too much depth in to the game.
My guess it was ditched because they ditched free unit movement & scouting with leprachauns ;-)
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Whoops, ended my turn too close to that stack of black dragons. Bye bye, three hours of playing.
Indeed - That's why scouting was even more useful (along with fog of war, naturally). Alas, now it is rather useless as vision range doesn't matter at all because of persistent vision.
Besides you could always run away
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How can it be worse than 3 if it has everything h3 had
Artifacts (power & quantity), maps (size & quantity), smoothness, graphics and age: HoMM 3 is an old game, you'd think that in version 5 there would be significant improvement in gameplay and in depth - Especially as the previous version introduced a lot of improvements like caravans, heroeless army movements (made diplomacy worth its while), multiple heroes per army, fog of war, etc.. which got ditched in 5.
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Fuzzier
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 10, 2006 04:03 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Thank God they introduced that. Reaching grandmaster in anything in h4 was impossible in most maps
With a bit of luck and proper class you could reach GM pretty easily.
We're talking about H5, not H4.
The experience needed to reach GM is QUITE a lot!
H5 limits hero's level to 40, but that level is practically un-obtainable. You need a lot of luck, and a lot of experience to reach GM pretty hard.
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Fugly jrpg style graphics oddly reminiscent of the crap WarC 3 (sword wielding vampires? FFS. Big, fat liches with uhh...skirts? No thank you.)
I agree!
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Restricted primary skills (eg. no necromancy for inferno hero or training for necromancer) - Instead of full restriction, weaker skills available for all (at least of some of the skills).
I can't see why Inferno hero should learn Necromancy.
Again, we're talking about H5, not H4. Necropolis and Inferno are separate factions.
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ZeroXcuses
Known Hero
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posted July 10, 2006 06:03 AM |
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Back in the day (Heroes II) even Warlocks could learn Necromancy. I think they still could in III but the probability was very low.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 10, 2006 11:43 AM |
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Quote:
You can protect units in 4 much better than in 3 or 5 (eg. by blocking archers or casters line of fire). Also, no melee unit without a hero could travel across the screen to attack your backliners (at least directly).
Of course you can protect your units (by surrounding them with small stacks). In h4, it was like "who gets devils first" bcuz they killed the hero every time, every game. Ridiculous.
As for defending the unit from ranged fire.. well, I kinda miss that too.
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Besides multiple heroes in an army allowed for shared XP which made fighting battles even with level capped hero benefical (because of the groupie) making campaigns that much more bearable or allowed for faster level growth in average than with a single hero. Not to mention ability to make specialized heroes instead of giving everyone attack, defence, <some magic skill> & luck like you do in 5.
Specialized means i.e. death magic every game when playing death faction? Very specialized, too bad it's boring
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Yes - Because in HoMM 5 a high initiative & speed offensive stack can practically eliminate one of opponent's large creatures in the first turn without taking any (or many) casualties - This is especially frustrating for Liches: The best stack in the game which rarely manages to do anything useful.
Get tactics and shield them with zombies! xP
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In HoMM4 you had ways of protecting your units with spells or using units according to unit specialty like no retaliation, strike & return, first strike or breath attack.
well, the magic system of h4 was a bit better and more complex, I have to agree here. 10 spells for every school are just not enough ;x
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With a bit of luck and proper class you could reach GM pretty easily.
On XL map? maybe.
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However, the sheer amount of skills available made almost every hero unique: Unless you soloed (one hero, one army) through an XL map against computer on impossible with huge amount of big neutral armies and bonus structures you couldn't max every skill - And even if you managed to max all the skills you couldn't choose every skill.
So why 6 slots for skill trees if it's almost impossible to complete ONE? think about it. IMO it's just pathetic.
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Then there were the classes which IMO brought a lot of character to heroes instead of faceless, tasteless spellflingers they're in 5.
Too bad everybody chosen the same class every game, and they soon turned into the same tastless spellflingers as in every heroes game.  Well, that's a matter of terrible balance of h4, but I must agree that the idea was good. (poorly executed tho.)
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Aye, it probably added too much depth in to the game.
It didn't add depth, it added annoying need for single lvl1 units as scouts placed in every part of the map. No fog of war is a luxury like, let's say, flagging windmills so they give you resources automatically. Less annoyance, more fun
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My guess it was ditched because they ditched free unit movement & scouting with leprachauns ;-)
I don't know about you, but I wanted to smash the screen with my keyboard waiting for that DAMN F*CKIN SLOW MOVING GREEN SHORTIES to finish their move ;p
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Indeed - That's why scouting was even more useful (along with fog of war, naturally). Alas, now it is rather useless as vision range doesn't matter at all because of persistent vision.
Tell me, who would chose scouting over "important" skills like combat or magic? The game ended quickly (on multiplayer), you needed either combat to resist the OHKOs from stronger stacks or magic to make use of some good spells to prevail in battle.. not some useless skill. And scouting with heroes was redundant because of the IMO retarded scouting with single sprites, bandits etc.
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Besides you could always run away
And lose everything, including the game. Woo-hoo! 
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Artifacts (power & quantity), maps (size & quantity), smoothness, graphics and age
The things you describe are just features confirmed to appear in future patches and expansions. I dunno if comparing games by number of artifacts or maps is a good idea. And h3 didn't run smoothly too on my old PC when it appeared first, so does h5 on my actual PC now, so I don't see the difference
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HoMM 3 is an old game, you'd think that in version 5 there would be significant improvement in gameplay and in depth - Especially as the previous version introduced a lot of improvements like caravans, heroeless army movements (made diplomacy worth its while), multiple heroes per army, fog of war, etc.. which got ditched in 5.
Just a matter of taste
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love h3&WoG, but still, I think H5 is a solid and fun game, ready to be expanded or modded.
Regards
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G3
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 10, 2006 02:08 PM |
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Edited by G3 at 14:17, 10 Jul 2006.
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Specialized means i.e. death magic every game when playing death faction? Very specialized, too bad it's boring
In 4 I could start with a necromancer, get GM necromancy and start focusing to scouting, combat or other magic skills if I wanted - Then I could hire a second hero with nobility and third hero with tactics combined with some magic skills.
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Get tactics and shield them with zombies! xP
Tactics is otherwise wasted slot: Archery, Battle Frenzy & Cold Steel improve the best stacks Necros have ie liches & skeleton archers more than puny one square improvement in placement.
Now, if they'd put tactics under leadership skills...
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On XL map? maybe.
Who plays sub XL maps?
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So why 6 slots for skill trees if it's almost impossible to complete ONE? think about it. IMO it's just pathetic.
It adds versatility to heroes - In 5 every hero can max a single path and maxing all isn't nearly as impossible as in 4 (6x3 + 6x3 + 1 = 37 skills per hero vs possible 225 of HoMM IV), this makes almost all heroes more or less carbon copies instead of variance of IV - It is something which adds huge amount of replay value, especially for co-op and single player scenarios.
I agree that the system in 4 was far from perfect with it's 3 luck based choices (kinda bleh) but it is miles better than in 5.
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Too bad everybody chosen the same class every game, and they soon turned into the same tastless spellflingers as in every heroes game.
I've never been into spell flinging, I'm more a might than magic player.
Which is why I love the undead: Immunity to mind spells. 
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I don't know about you, but I wanted to smash the screen with my keyboard waiting for that DAMN F*CKIN SLOW MOVING GREEN SHORTIES to finish their move ;p
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Tell me, who would chose scouting over "important" skills like combat or magic? The game ended quickly (on multiplayer), you needed either combat to resist the OHKOs from stronger stacks or magic to make use of some good spells to prevail in battle.. not some useless skill.
You needed scouting for GM pathfinding and speed kills - It also gave you info on guardians of creature vaults and abandoned mines, which is again something that is lacking in V.
What is even more important is to notice is that vast majority of HoMM players don't play competitive multiplayer games but single player scenarios (or even campaigns) - I agree that H5 probably suits MP purpose better because it is streamlined version of III, however...that doesn't make it a a better strategy game or better game overall (compare to eg. Civilization series).
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And scouting with heroes was redundant because of the IMO retarded scouting with single sprites, bandits etc.
Which you could Z away - Something which is missing in 5 (sleeping heroes/units).
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The things you describe are just features confirmed to appear in future patches and expansions. I dunno if comparing games by number of artifacts or maps is a good idea.
H5 lacks a lot of finishing touches - After an expansion or two it might make it big because it has the potential and pedigree but alas now it's, in my opinion, dreadfully incomplete.
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Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love h3&WoG, but still, I think H5 is a solid and fun game, ready to be expanded or modded.
For some odd reason I prefer the IV to III - Perhaps it's the more RPesque heroes and the sheer amount of different skill & artifact combinations you could load them up with: Heroes are what makes HoMM series different and in IV most of the game was about heroes.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 10, 2006 03:52 PM |
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Quote:
H5 lacks a lot of finishing touches - After an expansion or two it might make it big because it has the potential and pedigree but alas now it's, in my opinion, dreadfully incomplete.
Well, I think this is the point I fully agree with And I can't wait for the future expasions and patches ^^
oh, forgot to add: thanks to different skills for each hero(like warlock's luck available only for warlocks) and different racial abilities (gating, training etc), the sides of the conflict finally differ, instead of just having different appearance, units and chances for absolutely same skills. A very strong point of h5
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chpr
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 16, 2006 09:13 AM |
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hmm.. after a lot of playing, i may say that AT THIS MOMENT h5 is a game for idiots..not many different strats, again as in h3 almost fixed best choices for skills, an insane ammount of luck that predestines the game (an important mine guarded by lots elder druids - gl dude), no fog of war, stupid portal system etc. I am one of the fans of h4.. The game was deeper than every other homm. To choose the correct combo of units, to combine 2/3 heroes perfectly, timing was very important also.Go kill a grandmaster barbarian with all combat snowz with those devils! ahhaha There are also many arts that can save your hero.. h4 is not that simple as it may look
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Tarflin
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 16, 2006 12:59 PM |
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editor
For me the most dissapointing areas are
1. Lack of map/campaign editor
2. the fact that the game was released too soon, some of the bugs are very bad and there are balancing issues (Phantom image springs to mind).
I could add the slowdown on my PC but that isn't really a flaw as such, if i had a better PC it wouldn't happen.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 16, 2006 01:52 PM |
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Quote:
Go kill a grandmaster barbarian with all combat snowz with those devils! ahhaha There are also many arts that can save your hero.. h4 is not that simple as it may look
Yeah, barbarian. And what about mages?
but generally I agree.. h5 bcuz of bad balance is full of cookiecutters atm. ~~
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 16, 2006 04:52 PM |
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Only disapointing factor in the game is very few maps and no map editor. Thank god there gonna be map editor soon.
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