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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Dwarven Fortress - My expansion town
Thread: Dwarven Fortress - My expansion town This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 23, 2006 09:47 PM

Quote:
First of all, I don't have anything in particular agains Dragons, I just think that they are a bit overpowered (Black Dragon), and there shouldn't be too many, as that would be boring. As for the Gold Dragon, the Emerald Dragon plays the same role: Creature with partial magic immunity, very fast and with great initiative (with the flying & breath ability offcource). So it is called "Emerald" now, not such a big difference!
Well, one more Dragon is acceptible, but no more, 4 even the 3 we have now are enough, and 4 (if there will be another one) will be the limit.
As for the name, "White Dragon" doesn't fit in with the "metalic" sub group. I suggest "Cliff Dragon" instead. I also think that there should be more of a relationship between the Dragon and the Dwarves. Dwarves are the best Blacksmiths, so it would be cool to have the Dragon in armour (like Titanium that is light but strong, maybe myuthril armor... and maybe name the Dragon, one of the forms, "Mythril Dragon").
Or maybe have a Dwarf riding it!
Great job with the Naga info, it's very interesting...


I have realy been thinking a lot about the problem with the White Dragon name, which, as you say, is not metallic at all, but actually chromatic (just like the green one). I had considered Iron and Platinum Dragons, but none of them sounded really good, but you just gave me a brilliant idea: The Silver Dragon should be upgraded to the Mithrill Dragon. Mithrill is, as you probably know, the magically enhanced Dwarven metal akin to Silver so I think that would just be perfect in this connection. It might even be a Silver Dragon wearing a Mithrill amor, as you say - that's a very need idea!

As for the Naga info, also check out this topic discussing Naga society.

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Thanatos
Thanatos


Known Hero
posted May 25, 2006 08:57 PM

Looks good

I don't really like the catapult though, I don't like war machines as units... that and I've also never really thought about dwarves as tech-lovers, just doesn't really fit them IMO. Personally I'd move the Thunderbird one tier up (somehow I've always thought that tier 5 is one too low for the T-bird ) and put something else in tier 5.

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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted May 25, 2006 10:01 PM

Here's my (past) attempt at a Dwarf castle:

Stronghold
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 26, 2006 09:08 AM

Looks nice. Obviously, you took quite a different approach than I did, since I focused mainly on developing a ballanced set of unit that fit within the setting of this world, and would complement the existing forces, and you put a lot of work into the story and so on, which I didn't really look at.

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detheroc
detheroc


Adventuring Hero
noticed my 2 weeks miss?
posted May 26, 2006 09:35 AM

Well, looks really nice, I always like to see fan-made castles.Hmm...dwarves,there's never been such a race in Heroes series from what I recall and I really think that they should be adden at some point. About the units, I agree with the catapult as a dwarven unit, only that i don't think it's the right game:in H5 war machines have been again added, where in H4 they where simple units(like ballista, catapults), so the catapult doesn't fit so well in the picture. And another thing: the Thunderbird has always been with the barbarian race, and it simply does not fit with the dwarves...

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ComradeX
ComradeX


Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
posted May 26, 2006 02:59 PM

Well, I think that the Thunderbirds do fit in the Dwarven mountain setting, as they are cliff dwellers, and they can change alignment...
We should still have Rocs at Barbarian towns though, but as big birds.
It can be Giant Eagle that gets upgraded to Roc. And as I have said before, the Thunderbird is better at level 6 (2 strong flyers are O.K.), as it reminds me of what has been done to the Hydra...
As for Gnall Mage's Dwarven town, nice job! especialy the history, it's very well done (I see that you had to spend a lot of time on that!)
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys

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detheroc
detheroc


Adventuring Hero
noticed my 2 weeks miss?
posted May 26, 2006 09:10 PM

yeah, but they would look very similar: the thunder/lighting bird would be only a lightning/electric bolt(you name it)covered roc...anyway, that's my opinion, a T-bird is more suitable for Barbarian, for the dwarves a nice flying unit would be a dwarf rider or smth(like the troll batrider in war3 )

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 26, 2006 11:18 PM

Personally, I think the Roc and Thunderbird sits well with the Dwarves - yes, I know it's against tradition, but I think the mountain setting for these creatures make sense, plus I always found these creatures to be too majestic, and not quite beastly enough, to go with the barbarians/orcs/ogres. I was thinking in the line of a Vulture as a flying unit for the Ogre town. I think a Vulture would sit very well with this theme, and I might also go well with a racial enemy as either Griffin or Roc - depending on whether the Vulture would be level 4 or 5. It might even get a bonus by feading of carcasses - that might bring in a new fun special ability.

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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted May 26, 2006 11:40 PM

I like those ideas. Certainly Rocs and especially Thunderbirds could go with Dwarves (although Rocs are from Egyptian mythology I think...?). I can't think of what the upgrade / downgrade to Thunderbird might be though if Roc is not used.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 26, 2006 11:58 PM

I tried with Thunderbird / Lightning Bird to hold back the Roc, but obviously people had a very negative reaction to that, so I would go for the conventional Roc/Thunderbird relationship, and then just introduce the Vultures for the Barbarians.

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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted May 27, 2006 05:32 PM

Maybe use Wakinyan (native american name)???
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actionjack
actionjack


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 03, 2006 09:55 PM

Most impressive.  
Great stuff there, and highly detail.  You could be a dev.  And the graphic is very pleasing to the eye too.  (especially when spot a familiar character)  

Now in adding some constructive opnions.  I share the view that I think Dwarf should not get dragons, as they seem to be already all over the place.  Not sure what to replace with, maybe a Giant Construct? (like a big robot)  Roc/Thunderbird/Lightingbird is another I have feeling about, as having them there seem to break up the overall tone of the faction.  In all, it seem you are going for a more balance build, but would like to see it more "themed", or concentrated on one area.  In typical Dwarf faction, Defense should be the main game in playing those shorties.  So would like to see dwarf creatures more orientated that way.  (also what about guns and blackpowder?  Some people dislike them in fantasy setting, but I think they are fine with Dwarfs)

Just a quick idea... but I would make my creature list maybe like:

> Halfling / Halfling Slinger
> Dwarf Worker / Dwarven Miner (dig tunnel ablity)
> Dwarven Guard / Dwarven Defender
> Gryo / Boombdeer (drop bombs in a baloon/glaider/heli type of flying machine)
> Dwarven Cleric / Dwarven High Cleric (summon stone golem ablity)
> Catapult / Seige Catapult
> Tank / War Tank
> Giant Construct / Gaia Construct (giant robot that shoot cannons, upgrade with rocket feet to make them flyer)

(yes, there are 8 on the list.  Since its a possible expansion, where might see new creatures added to the exisiting faction, might as well make it 8)

Of couse, those are just personal opnion/verson, so don't take it as implying you are wrong in anyway.

Also would like to see adding to Dwarf's racial special ablities.  I think it would help round it out even more.  








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Nusaram
Nusaram


Hired Hero
posted June 04, 2006 10:35 AM

Not bad,not bad.But 5lvl flyer?7lvl too?Shooter at 6lvl?Lol it is pretty powerful,don't you agree?
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Feuerader
Feuerader


posted June 11, 2006 04:10 AM

I favour Mechanical Dragon Golem in H4 personally. Judging the background of Dragon Golem and the Dwarves, I think they two suit quite well.

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XzavioR
XzavioR

Tavern Dweller
posted June 11, 2006 12:56 PM

Have you thought of renaming the White Dragons to Silver Dragons and the Silver ones to Mithril Dragons.That way it sounds more dwarven-like,cause mithril is the most expensive ore and it's logical that the upgreaded dragons are made from mithril.

Another idea for them is to make them mechanical flyers with 3 headed attack - like a flying robo hydra made from mithril.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 11, 2006 01:40 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 14:00, 11 Jun 2006.

I actually came up with the idea of the Mithrill Dragon myself after I posted these shots ... And yes, Silver and Mithrill Dragon is deffinitely much better, and is how they should be.

Several people have pointed out, that they don't think there's any need for any more dragons, and that the Dragon Golem would be an obvious choice foir a replacement - and I agree, though I neven cared much for the dragon golem. Also, it was said that a level 5 AND level 7 Flyer combined with a level 6 Shooter might be overly powerfull, and I tend to agree. Also, a level 6 and level 7 mechanical unit might be a bit boring, so one solution could be something like this:

Level 1-4: Unchanged.
Level 5: Catapult / Fire Catapult.
Level 6: Roc / Thunderbird.
Level 7: Spider Golem / Dragon Golem.

That would, however, require some rather powerfull specials for the Dragon Golem to be a really usefull unit.

EDIT: I have now changed names to Silver and Mithrill Dragon.

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ComradeX
ComradeX


Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
posted June 11, 2006 02:04 PM

You have made some wise choices Comrade Alcibiades, well done!
But still, I think that the Roc is a part of the Barbarian theme.
I understand that you (and many more, including myself) wish to have a more "regular" bird as the non upgraded level 6 unit, meaning one that would not be able to call lightning, as this should be saved for the upgraded form, which is deffinitly going to be the Thunderbird.
I suggest giving it a name that represents it's dwelling location, something like "cliff flyer" or "Mountain Bird" or even better, "Peak Condor" that one just sounds cool (at least in my head...).
Another thing that sounds strange to me is the mechanical Dragon non upgraded: "spider Golem". That changes the theme completely IMO.
That means that the units shape will change, and the whole function ma change too... I think that we should stick with the mech DRAGON.
We can make the name longer by adding (even using the previous theme suggested for the dragon) a 3rd word to it, like so:
Silver Dragon Golem to Mythrill Dragon Golem.
Or if it's to long it can become:
Lizard Golem to Dragon Golem
Personaly, I favor the 1st idea...
____________
The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 11, 2006 02:35 PM

Quote:
You have made some wise choices Comrade Alcibiades, well done!
But still, I think that the Roc is a part of the Barbarian theme.
I understand that you (and many more, including myself) wish to have a more "regular" bird as the non upgraded level 6 unit, meaning one that would not be able to call lightning, as this should be saved for the upgraded form, which is deffinitly going to be the Thunderbird.
I suggest giving it a name that represents it's dwelling location, something like "cliff flyer" or "Mountain Bird" or even better, "Peak Condor" that one just sounds cool (at least in my head...).


Actually, I did quite the opposite approach, in that I reserved the Roc / Thunderbird for this setting - the Dwarven/Mountain - and then I granted the Barbarians a new unit, the Vulture / Condor (look here two thirds towards bottom). I think the Vulture is a bird that fits very well with the Barbarian theme, much better than the majestic thunderbird, that never really went well with the filthy Orcs imo. Thus, I'd stick with the Roc / Thunderbird scheme here - after all, this is just my approach at a town.


Quote:
Another thing that sounds strange to me is the mechanical Dragon non upgraded: "spider Golem". That changes the theme completely IMO.
That means that the units shape will change, and the whole function ma change too... I think that we should stick with the mech DRAGON.
We can make the name longer by adding (even using the previous theme suggested for the dragon) a 3rd word to it, like so:
Silver Dragon Golem to Mythrill Dragon Golem.
Or if it's to long it can become:
Lizard Golem to Dragon Golem
Personaly, I favor the 1st idea...


Well, don't put too much into the thing with the Spider thing, it was just to give it some name - and I thought to myself, "what did the Dragon Golem look like in Heroes 4? - well, most of all, it looked like a giant spider", so this was just a first idea. Other possibilities might be Mechanical Dragon / Dragon Golem, or Lizard Golem / Dragon Golem as you say.

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Feuerader
Feuerader


posted June 11, 2006 04:36 PM
Edited by Feuerader at 16:39, 11 Jun 2006.

Quote:
You have made some wise choices Comrade Alcibiades, well done!
But still, I think that the Roc is a part of the Barbarian theme.
I understand that you (and many more, including myself) wish to have a more "regular" bird as the non upgraded level 6 unit, meaning one that would not be able to call lightning, as this should be saved for the upgraded form, which is deffinitly going to be the Thunderbird.
I suggest giving it a name that represents it's dwelling location, something like "cliff flyer" or "Mountain Bird" or even better, "Peak Condor" that one just sounds cool (at least in my head...).
Another thing that sounds strange to me is the mechanical Dragon non upgraded: "spider Golem". That changes the theme completely IMO.
That means that the units shape will change, and the whole function ma change too... I think that we should stick with the mech DRAGON.
We can make the name longer by adding (even using the previous theme suggested for the dragon) a 3rd word to it, like so:
Silver Dragon Golem to Mythrill Dragon Golem.
Or if it's to long it can become:
Lizard Golem to Dragon Golem
Personaly, I favor the 1st idea...


Do we have to have a bird in the Dwarven faction?
In fact, it reminded me Pegasus... perhaps female dwarf mounting on a white pegasus, flying over the snowy mountain, armed with a long lance and can cause enemy hero to use more mana to cast spells, these suit Dwarves' defensive features. Remember? All Dwarves units we have now are all senile males dwarves with white beard.

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XzavioR
XzavioR

Tavern Dweller
posted June 11, 2006 05:48 PM

Quote:
Quote:
You have made some wise choices Comrade Alcibiades, well done!
But still, I think that the Roc is a part of the Barbarian theme.
I understand that you (and many more, including myself) wish to have a more "regular" bird as the non upgraded level 6 unit, meaning one that would not be able to call lightning, as this should be saved for the upgraded form, which is deffinitly going to be the Thunderbird.
I suggest giving it a name that represents it's dwelling location, something like "cliff flyer" or "Mountain Bird" or even better, "Peak Condor" that one just sounds cool (at least in my head...).
Another thing that sounds strange to me is the mechanical Dragon non upgraded: "spider Golem". That changes the theme completely IMO.
That means that the units shape will change, and the whole function ma change too... I think that we should stick with the mech DRAGON.
We can make the name longer by adding (even using the previous theme suggested for the dragon) a 3rd word to it, like so:
Silver Dragon Golem to Mythrill Dragon Golem.
Or if it's to long it can become:
Lizard Golem to Dragon Golem
Personaly, I favor the 1st idea...


Do we have to have a bird in the Dwarven faction?
In fact, it reminded me Pegasus... perhaps female dwarf mounting on a white pegasus, flying over the snowy mountain, armed with a long lance and can cause enemy hero to use more mana to cast spells, these suit Dwarves' defensive features. Remember? All Dwarves units we have now are all senile males dwarves with white beard.


Aren't the dwarves the sort of creatures that like to be firmly on the ground?So I guess that this rules the pegasus out.I think that the only thing that I don't like about this castle are the catapult and the dwarven miner - the miner somehow reminds me of the peasant from Haven.The strongest creature should be the Mithril Dragon,after all the dragons dwell in the mountains.

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