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| Thread: Enlightenment Overpowered? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 20, 2006 09:14 AM |
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Quote:
btw, are these % increases multiplied or just added together? Doesn't make that much of a difference, just wondering.
They're added together as far as I know. But the experience increasing artifacts do not affect your Enlightenment skill in any way. If you equip them, but don't have the skill, you gain +30% experience. The +15% from Enlightenment does not change.
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ggnarl
Hired Hero
Taxpayer
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posted September 20, 2006 05:44 PM |
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True, but your level-ups come increasingly quicker, and therefore the stat bonuses from enlightenment add up faster.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 20, 2006 10:50 PM |
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That's independent from the artifacts, though. A hero without Enlightenment but with those artifacts still gains +30% experience.
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ggnarl
Hired Hero
Taxpayer
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posted September 20, 2006 11:59 PM |
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Understood. I'm only suggesting that the benefits provided by enlightenment are accelerated by these artifacts. The faster you level up, the more quickly you accumulate additional stat bonuses. Granted, the % added to experience are independant of each other (especially since they are added, not multiplied), but they do compliment each other.
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zatoichi
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 21, 2006 12:24 AM |
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Edited by zatoichi at 01:07, 21 Sep 2006.
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Quote:
True, but your level-ups come increasingly quicker, and therefore the stat bonuses from enlightenment add up faster.
Nope. Level-ups with enlightenment do come quicker, but decreasingly quicker, because the gap between two successive levels becomes percentage-wise wider.
Let's say that main hero of player_1 acquires Expert Enlightenment early in the game - hero_1, and the main hero of player_2 continently named hero_2 passes on Enlightenment.
Lets say that both of these heroes acquire equal amount of experience in successive periods of time.Well, not exactly equal... What I mean is lets say that they fight equally hard battles against neutrals.
I did a little math, so I know that the earliest possible lead is 8000 accumulated experience points.
Hero_1 would actually accumulate 10100 XP - lvl 8.
Hero_2 would of course have unmodified 8000 XP - lvl 7.
Throughout of game both heroes would be either of same level, or level apart. For most of the time post lvl 29, they would be of same level.
Edit: Nice insight by Rainalcar.
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Unixmage
Known Hero
Demon Slayer
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posted September 21, 2006 12:43 AM |
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Enlightenment is only nice for the stats!
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ggnarl
Hired Hero
Taxpayer
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posted September 21, 2006 01:25 AM |
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But this line of reasoning neglects another fact -- with higher levels come a greater capacity to earn more experience. Heroes acquire and stats and skills more rapidly and have the ability to explore the map and battle more difficult opponents sooner. Of course, one has to account for the levels "wasted" acquiring the enlightment skill, but still, I think it get canceled out, concidering the stat bonuses. (Haven't done any math here, just a hypothosis)
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted September 21, 2006 04:20 AM |
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It's not what you think because you will never be more than 1 level higher than someone without Enlightenment but you spent 3 levels to get this "bonus." At higher levels, 1 level won't make a difference in terms of whether you can creep something or not. Enlightenment is indeed only good for the stats.
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Demortae
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 21, 2006 04:44 AM |
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Well, that's not true, every bit helps, and I'd rather be a level ahead of someone than a level behind. Personally there are several skills I'd take first, but who's to say they are going to be an option. Also, the advantage of intelligence in the early game cannot be ignored. If you are focusing on magic use, it can be hard to maintain your creeping very far from your home base without it. With the new mana costs, high mana has become important for all factions, most notably academy (with mark of wizard), sylvan (that ever plans on using rain of imbued arrows), and warlock (with empowered spells). Two of these fortunately have knowledge as primary or secondary. The poor warlock, however, is gonna find it hard to survive without. Of the other 3 factions, only inferno is going to have enough mana without intelligence when travelling far from home, so they could use it as well. Obviously, sorcery can help as well, but it isn't always the way to go and isn't always enough. Then, of course, you may need both, too maintain mana as well as the other benefits.
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted September 21, 2006 06:36 AM |
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Think I am convinced that the experience boost from enlightenment is not as useful as it appears to be, just like dark revelation, which does nothing except giving u an extra level, but wastes a slot on the secondary skill which can be much more useful.
But the extra stats is still good, considering an additional 10 points in primary stats at expert level at level 20.
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted September 21, 2006 02:29 PM |
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Quote:
Well, that's not true, every bit helps, and I'd rather be a level ahead of someone than a level behind. Personally there are several skills I'd take first, but who's to say they are going to be an option. Also, the advantage of intelligence in the early game cannot be ignored. If you are focusing on magic use, it can be hard to maintain your creeping very far from your home base without it. With the new mana costs, high mana has become important for all factions, most notably academy (with mark of wizard), sylvan (that ever plans on using rain of imbued arrows), and warlock (with empowered spells). Two of these fortunately have knowledge as primary or secondary. The poor warlock, however, is gonna find it hard to survive without. Of the other 3 factions, only inferno is going to have enough mana without intelligence when travelling far from home, so they could use it as well. Obviously, sorcery can help as well, but it isn't always the way to go and isn't always enough. Then, of course, you may need both, too maintain mana as well as the other benefits.
But that's just it: You're NOT a level ahead, you're two levels behind because that part of a level (not even a whole level) costs you 3 levels worth of abilities to get. In the early to mid levels, it's the abilities that make up the strength of the hero. I'm not saying Enlightenment is bad by any means. I get it myself but certainly not for the experience "bonus."
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Demortae
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 21, 2006 02:53 PM |
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Quote:
But that's just it: You're NOT a level ahead, you're two levels behind because that part of a level (not even a whole level) costs you 3 levels worth of abilities to get. In the early to mid levels, it's the abilities that make up the strength of the hero. I'm not saying Enlightenment is bad by any means. I get it myself but certainly not for the experience "bonus."
No, your not. The stat boost makes enlightenment well worth the ability slots. Not to mention the fact that you may NEED basic at least to get intelligence. Granted, different situation call for other skills, but enlightenment is as viable a choice as any.
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diplomacy4you
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 22, 2006 11:14 AM |
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The bigger picture
Enlightenment is great because it adds to your four primary statistics. However, by obtaining enlightenment, you no longer have the opportunity to learn another skill. Unless, you're planning on having your hero be a great sorcerer, its really not needed. I would rather have a skill like luck or leadership in a battle.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted December 24, 2006 03:52 AM |
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Enlightment is a very, very powerful "skill" (not perk).. Look at that POOR Basic attack (only 5% damage!!) that equals +1 attack (1 attack means 5% more damage).
At level 10 you get much more by obtaining Enlightment than by obtaining Attack, for example. The strength of enlightment is not in the "experience boost", it's in the stat boost.
However, as far as I'm concerned, anything besides Intelligence sucks. In short, the perks (Abilities) suck! That's the weak spot of enlightment.
If you have a level 10 cap (no more level ups), and need to choose 1 basic skill, best choice is enlightment. It's the best skill, with poor perks. So if you're only aiming for the skill and not the perks, enlightment is the best one.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted December 25, 2006 02:51 AM |
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You're right. Defense gives you a 10% bonus (+2 defense) and only for melee attacks! This means Enlightment at level 12+ is much better than any other skill (ignoring the abilities it unlocks), without mentioning the XP bonus.
Yeah, the abilities suck, except Intelligence. And maybe Arcane Intuition is good sometimes. (example: Lethos has Dark Magic but the Magic Guild doesn't provide you with any dark magic spell if you're not lucky. in this case you need Arcane Intuition to learn the spells cast by your Shadow Matriarchs!)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 25, 2006 07:25 AM |
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umm, guys.. you forgot one thing.. this 15% defense bonus includes the DEF of the hero, so it's not exaclty just +2DEF, it's a but more.  Plus, the perks are very good for both attack and defense, contrary to enlightment ones (maybe except intelligence).
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted December 27, 2006 02:25 AM |
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Actually, the higher the Hero's DEF is the lower the DEF skill bonus will be. I'm pretty sure the DEF skill just reduces damage. The lower the Hero's DEF stat = the more damage they will take = higher percentile damage reduction. When its all said and done, I still don't know what is better, +3 DEF, or 15% damage reduction. One of you number guys should figure it out for us.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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