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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 29, 2006 06:18 AM |
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A relationship with god & trusting him & Jesus is the key to get to heaven.
Believe in him or not, ou have to have faith & trust in him.
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Rhodan
Adventuring Hero
from Holland
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posted May 29, 2006 10:27 AM |
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The band called Slayer created quite a confronting song about why a person doesn't believe in God. I'm talking about their song called Disciple.
I've seen many confrontations about 'Why not rape and kill, being an atheistic person?' It is there where socialism comes into play.
I kinda tried to write I lost my belief in God, however somewhere I'm halted... I guess I'm balancing inbetween believing and not believing. Right now I think God is an option to find the meaning of Life. In the end, it comes down on what you think is important. Even though believing in God may be important for you, there are also limits when you think living life to its fullest is important.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 29, 2006 10:33 AM |
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One of th many reasons there is religion.
It keeps people in check.
They would think of going to hell if they raped or killed someone so it can prevent it.
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Rhodan
Adventuring Hero
from Holland
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posted May 29, 2006 10:42 AM |
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Religion has its classic morales. Then came the Enlightenment, basically letting humans realise knowledge is power...
Kinda funny if you compare the latter with HoMM. 
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted May 31, 2006 12:57 PM |
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I've heard the quote "JESUS IS NOT RELIGION"... Just an attempt to modernize christianity, as is necessary to prevent it from falling over the brink of destruction, because "religion" to the moder generations has become a word related to being boring and a waste of time, just trying to excuse christianity from this catagory. It's still religion.
Kinda like in the book "Xenocide" by Orson Scott Card, how the Chinese people have a class system where the higher class are 'Godspoken', because they have the traits of OCD, and are super-intelligent. Whenever they have a blasphemous thought they have to do a ritual of 'cleansing' over and over, as punishment. To everyone else on other worlds, this looked like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, especially with the characterisitics like excessive hand-washing, but it was incurable by the normal meds of those days. The people who weren't 'Godspoken' were lower class and had to respect and work for the 'Godspoken'. Their whole lives were based on this.
Then when it is discovered that this was a disorder bred into the genes of the 'Godspoken', to make them smart enough to solve the problems for the government, but cripple them so that whenever they thought about not following the governments orders they would have to do these 'rituals'. Just a psychological problem, and they justified it as the government had the 'Mandate of Heaven' (Might and Magic 6 anyone?  ), and so to disobey them would be to disobey the gods. They release cure for this, and they are free of the OCD, and of the government, but the fanatic godspoken continue to do these rituals because they believe that everyone else has simply lost faith.
This could be interpreted to be like Christianity.
If it was proved false there would always be those few who would still believe that they would be the only ones going to Heaven.
And as Miru said, it could also be used by the government to achieve things, but I think that in the real world that was only done to a small extent, and in ages past.
Christianity is an ancient myth, which calls for evidence where the only evidence present is that which proves it false.
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John says to live above hell.
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Cabranth
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 31, 2006 02:19 PM |
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Hello.
For anyone interested in actually thinking about this subject(s), I highly recommend reading "The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason" by Sam Harris. Also, "Breaking the Spell" by Daniel C. Dennett.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 31, 2006 04:06 PM |
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Of course the Govt uses religion to gain our truse.
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Iris
Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
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posted June 06, 2006 08:28 PM |
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"I content that we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer Gods than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible Gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Pretty self-explanatory, isn't it?
My biggest problem with religion is that you close your mind entirely to everything else. Christians tell you to keep an open mind and an open heart to their religion, to Heaven and Hell, to God. But guess what, they can't keep an open minded about the possibility of other religions. Why? Because that makes them bad Christians. How dare you question the existence of your God. So the question to them is, do you want to be a hypocrite or do you want to be a good Christian?
I was talking to my ex-boyfriend about religion (he became Christian after we broke up), and I told him about that quote up there. He thought about it, then said, "I would agree, but I know better."
He knows better.
That's just the first thing that popped into my mind. Let me address some other points before I turn this into my personal experiences with religion.
When God created man, He gave him free will.
God is omnipotent and omniscient. If He created every one of us, put every ingredient into us, then He should know exactly what we are going to do at any given point. When faced with a decision, God will know exactly what we will choose in the end, because, after all, He created us and He is omniscient. So even though He is not controlling us or telling us what to do, He knows what we will do. And that cannot change. So tell me, do we have free will? Our fates are predetermined because everything was set when we were created.
And following the same path, if He knows what we're going to do because He programmed us a certain way, does that mean that He has condemned some of us to Hell? Some people never convert to Christianity, and are there for doomed to eternal suffering. If God knows that certain people will not convert, it means He created them that way, which means he had condemned them to Hell.
Maybe there's something I'm not understanding correctly, so if anyone wants to help clarify this, you're welcome to do so.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 06, 2006 09:25 PM |
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Theres alot of different people in this world that believe in different stuff but I can not stand people who stand by the lord & over due it.
They think that everyone is evil orless you believe in the lord & Jesus our savior.
If you dont belive then your going to hell, if you like a person only in the outside, then you go to hello.
If you try to look too good then you go to hell.
If you take a dump then you go to hell.
Everythang has to be evolved with the lord.
Cant have fun, you go to church & being the man of the lord you evolve your life to the lord & have no time for yourself, but to them it is all fun.
Just cant stand how they act like you are a nobody orless you believe in the lord & any sinful toughts & you are no good.
Alot of people like that & Radicals which is worst.
Then those who exploit the name to use.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Cabranth
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 06, 2006 09:25 PM |
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Hello.
To Iris:
You nailed one of my biggest confustratations.
I'm told(haven't read the WHOLE book) that in the bible it says past present and future, from the creation of the universe to the destruction of everything except "Heaven" and "Hell", is pre-ordained by "god".
If this is so, Human Beings have no Free Will.
If Human Beings have no Free Will, why are they sent to hell for doing what "god" FORCED them to do?
That's not just illogical, it's cruel and stupid.
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dread_knight
Known Hero
Converting Vegetarians
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posted June 09, 2006 06:10 AM |
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Sorry for the delay
I am Jewish, I'm not religeous in any way. Don't belive in god, don't follow the bible rules, don't eat kosher food and don't go to the sinagogue on Friday nights. But one thing is for sure - there is _something_ out there.
There must be some sort of an "entity" where it is alive or not, that will guide humans and give them their fate.
I have studied the bible throughout, the Old testament is 75% right historically, the kings and the neighbouring countries and the wars and the civilizations, but by the bible the world was created 5766 years ago, about the times the pyramids were standing. So I am really scpetical about the god in the bible. I am more of a person that belives facts rather than writings in a "holy" book. Like the fact that none of Jesus' students took notes, nor did he himself took notes, so how come they know everything Jesus said? I do belive there was a Jesus and I do belive there was a Judas, those were real people and Pontius Pilatus and the story, it all happened but all those miracles... are really absurd.
But that doesn't matter, a person who is a believer will keep on beliving it.
The truth is, that mankind created religion, the Jewish religion is some 3500 years old, and the christian religion is about 2006. But religions like the Hindu and the Buddhism are about 6000 years old (if i'm not mistaking), and civilizations throughout the course of time were seeking explanation, how come there is rain, how come there are trees, how come our neurosystem is so complicated and whatnot.
Anyway, the questions that trouble most people is Why Life? What life? Who life? and where life?
Science says that water was created through reactions on earth and then cells came to be, and then dinasaurs and then birds and then mammels and then people and ecetra ecetra. Say what you may, I don't belive that Life and Nature were created from one single cell. Science can explain the water (not to good really, but it's something) but everything else? uh uh. Something must have set it up, set it all going, a mass of free energy, an elephant with seven hands or the guy that throws lightnings from the top of mt. olympus, anything. So I don't belive in god, I don't deny god, I am seeking answers myself because science is not perfect, neither is religion (even further from being perfect), you can call me an agnostic if you like, but never an atheist
Anyway, I do not believe in the concept of god as religions present it, I despise the ways religion present god and everything the religion represents. All religions want is to gain control, striving to power, blindfolding and brainwashing people, limiting the emotional and intilectual thought, stripping the human kind from it's freedom.
On the bottom line, I'd say that there is no god that will send to to damnation if you sleep with your girlfriend, it's the friggin 21st century. And no there is no god that can tell me what to eat and what not to it. And there is certainly no god that can tell me what to think. But there is an entity, I can almost feel it....
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 10, 2006 03:37 AM |
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Yes you may even be in hell now but as long as you remember.
God still loves you
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Dreaming of a Better World
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ChEsHiReKaT
Known Hero
Madness Controls Me
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posted June 10, 2006 05:07 AM |
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God does everything for a reason, he leads you down paths and you make mistakes, but you learn from them mistakes and it makes you a better and stronger person.
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Guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted June 10, 2006 05:38 AM |
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In my experience, it's been more of a relationship than a religion. In areas where I'm struggling, such as faith and patience, I've found it to be very much a growing process like a lot of other things. And, truthfully speaking, I've witnessed some neat miracles in the past few years.
-Guitarguy
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dread_knight
Known Hero
Converting Vegetarians
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posted June 10, 2006 05:52 AM |
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Turning to god is the easy way out. Especially in christianity.
If something bad happens people are all like "oh the devil punished me/god punished me" and once everything is fine they go like "oh thank god".
Why can't people just take it for a fact that the bad things that happen are on the account of their own mistakes, and when it becomes good again it's because they made it go right.
When someone feels he has a problem he prays and prays sometimes for weeks and when he sorts the problem out he's so thankful to god saying it's a miracle. I never turned to god, and I was always able to sort my problems, and I can bet with any one of you here that my problems were greater than yours, but I'm not being arrogant here, i'm just making a point that God is the easy way out. For any question, and any problem. Why do we have toenails? - god made it this way. How come I lost my best friend in a car accident? - god wanted it this way. God god god, never a human error. I'm my own God.
@ChEsHiReKaT: Does it seem logical to you that god would lead 5Billion people down the road of sinning? And then burn them in hell?
Doesn't sound like a loving god to me.
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Guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted June 10, 2006 07:42 AM |
bonus applied. |
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Quote:
Turning to god is the easy way out. Especially in christianity.
If something bad happens people are all like "oh the devil punished me/god punished me" and once everything is fine they go like "oh thank god".
It would appear to be the easy way out from an outsider's perspective, but it's not quite so clear cut. A person might choose to view the situation a certain way, but that doesn't always lessen the pain or trouble when something bad occurs. He/she still has to take it and get over it like any human being. Christians can be spiritually comforted through faith in their beliefs, but it's certainly not like having magical shielding in a fantasy movie or a computer game. They feel hurt, they feel shocked, they cry, they go depressed like anybody else. I can assure you that not all Christians are strong in faith. I know because I'm one of those who struggles daily.
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Why can't people just take it for a fact that the bad things that happen are on the account of their own mistakes, and when it becomes good again it's because they made it go right. When someone feels he has a problem he prays and prays sometimes for weeks and when he sorts the problem out he's so thankful to god saying it's a miracle.
Bad things can occur because of things we do. I think whether or not you live for God, this is something you've just got to accept. If it's true that some Christians won't take the blame for bringing trouble on themselves, I can't say I see things the same way they do, either. But at the same time, it's commonplace for Christians to ask for God's assistance in their times of need. Because God is their source and their strength, it's only natural that they'll want to include God. To say that Christians should deal with every problem themselves without involving God would take the argument in another direction, however. Then the question would change to "Why can't people just take it for a fact that there is no God?"
It's kind of presumptuous to think that the bolded statement is the usual scenario for your average Christian. I know that the idea is widely-believed, but I can't say that it's always true. For example, I accept the fact that I mess up now and again. In turn, I do what I can to make things right, sometimes with prayer, sometimes without. I don't make things out to be bigger than they actually are.
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I can bet with any one of you here that my problems were greater than yours, but I'm not being arrogant here, i'm just making a point that God is the easy way out.
It doesn't really prove anything, but it's still your testimony. And I'm so terribly sorry that my own problems cannot possibly compare to yours.
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Does it seem logical to you that god would lead 5Billion people down the road of sinning? And then burn them in hell?
Doesn't sound like a loving god to me.
I don't know about God "leading" people down sinful roads; that sounds more like Satan. If anything, you'd think God would lead people away from such paths. I think this was slightly out of context.
And as for the final statement...
God would be quite unloving if you didn't count his invitation to receive salvation.
-Guitarguy
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dread_knight
Known Hero
Converting Vegetarians
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posted June 10, 2006 08:07 AM |
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Quote:
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Turning to god is the easy way out. Especially in christianity.
If something bad happens people are all like "oh the devil punished me/god punished me" and once everything is fine they go like "oh thank god".
It would appear to be the easy way out from an outsider's perspective, but it's not quite so clear cut. A person might choose to view the situation a certain way, but that doesn't always lessen the pain or trouble when something bad occurs. He/she still has to take it and get over it like any human being. Christians can be spiritually comforted through faith in their beliefs, but it's certainly not like having magical shielding in a fantasy movie or a computer game. They feel hurt, they feel shocked, they cry, they go depressed like anybody else. I can assure you that not all Christians are strong in faith. I know because I'm one of those who struggles daily.
No, how would you explain criminals that say "I have change, I found god in jail now i'm a new man". I'm not saying people don't feel hurt, but when I feel hurt I go to my friends. I didn't say anything about christians being zealots, I was talking about the fundamentals of christanity itself and how religeous christians follow it, I think you sorta missed my point because of my misleading way of writing
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Why can't people just take it for a fact that the bad things that happen are on the account of their own mistakes, and when it becomes good again it's because they made it go right. When someone feels he has a problem he prays and prays sometimes for weeks and when he sorts the problem out he's so thankful to god saying it's a miracle.
Bad things can occur because of things we do. I think whether or not you live for God, this is something you've just got to accept. If it's true that some Christians won't take the blame for bringing trouble on themselves, I can't say I see things the same way they do, either. But at the same time, it's commonplace for Christians to ask for God's assistance in their times of need. Because God is their source and their strength, it's only natural that they'll want to include God. To say that Christians should deal with every problem themselves without involving God would take the argument in another direction, however. Then the question would change to "Why can't people just take it for a fact that there is no God?"
It's kind of presumptuous to think that the bolded statement is the usual scenario for your average Christian. I know that the idea is widely-believed, but I can't say that it's always true. For example, I accept the fact that I mess up now and again. In turn, I do what I can to make things right, sometimes with prayer, sometimes without. I don't make things out to be bigger than they actually are.
Again had no meaning in reffering to you specifically, you are a very unique person indeed and I can say that by your music taste :-p perhaps you are right, this statement I made is empty, its like "there is not god coz you can't prove there is one" and "there is a god coz you can't prove there is none". Let's agree to disagree ^^
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I can bet with any one of you here that my problems were greater than yours, but I'm not being arrogant here, i'm just making a point that God is the easy way out.
It doesn't really prove anything, but it's still your testimony. And I'm so terribly sorry that my own problems cannot possibly compare to yours.
Sorry was an empty sentence, but it's even emptier when you pull it out of its context.
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Does it seem logical to you that god would lead 5Billion people down the road of sinning? And then burn them in hell?
Doesn't sound like a loving god to me.
I don't know about God "leading" people down sinful roads; that sounds more like Satan. If anything, you'd think God would lead people away from such paths. I think this was slightly out of context.
I was reffering here to the other guy who wrote that god leads you in a certain way and wants you to make mistake, and if those mistakes are agains the bible so technically god wants you to sin? I just didn't see the meaning of this guy's post. I don't want to get into Satan/God disputes :-p
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And as for the final statement...
God would be quite unloving if you didn't count his invitation to receive salvation.
-Guitarguy
His invitation to recieve salvation is sorta not an invitation but a blunt fact: you embrace jesus you go to heaven, you deny jesus you go to hell. And what about all those hindus i ask you?
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted June 10, 2006 08:37 AM |
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So you can sin, have sinned, will sin, and alot of us (including me) are 'sinning' (if that's a word) right now. But if you ask for forgiveness you'll get it... It's all a bit.. yeah.
That's an interesting thought Dread Knight, that the meaning of life is far too 'iffy' to be done without help..
But remember, things have been going on for a long, long time. Eternity, probably. Who knows. But that allows for infinite possibilities.
I mean, like you said, it's all about science. I believe it to be true.
Theres the protons, which cling to the neutrons to form a nucleus, and then the number of electrons which are attracted to it accounts for it's properties, and therefore it is an element. There is one element which has a certain balance of negative/positive charge in each atom to be Oxygen, and then the same for Hydrogen, and then that same charge attracts the electrons and atoms and whatever to become stable, and it becomes H2O. Then theres all that about the charges in Hydrogen against Oxygen making it slightly positive and negative on each side, making it polar, and then all that blah blah blah. It is a bit iffy, but I believe it possible, and I know that it can and has happened (obviously), but I don't think that some ethereal being causing it to happen is possible.
But then, as I've said before, all that taken for granted, theres still the question of where do these protons and neutrons and electrons and atoms and everything theyre made up of come from? Even the smallest thing ever, can't remember the name, what's that made up of? And these charges of energy, which cause everything to happen, where do they come from? Where does energy come from? Why was it all created?
It's not the meaning of life. I know what that is. It's the meaning of matter, of energy, of existence.
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John says to live above hell.
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dread_knight
Known Hero
Converting Vegetarians
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posted June 10, 2006 09:00 AM |
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The question of existance is the question of life itself. The question of existance was around a long time ago, a phylosophic movemenet called existentialism. I do belive science to be correct and the chemical reactions are proven to be true, but there is so much beyound that, and even if you won't go as deep as quarks, just lets stay at the beggining, the first cell, if it's one and single cell that has divided into all sorts of raptiles that later became huge reptiles and later somehow all died and humans came to be. Just the theory of evolution is correct in a sense that evolution happens and still happening, but before that, the common ancestor we had with the apes, where did it come from and his ancestor where did it come from?
I do tend to believe we are all energy, it is the direction I lean towards, that when we die we dissolve in the universe as energy and are converted to a different form of energy, because the first law of thermodynamics is fully correct undoubtably - energy can't come from nothing and can't disappear into nothing. So where da hell did we come from? where did this initial energy came from? that specifically in this point of this galaxy at this solar system at this planet life will start this way, and if there are other forms of life on other planets, which have a very high probability, also came from an energy? And do they have gods? and is their god right? Do they have heaven and hell? I'm really sceptic about god as people see it but i'm even more sceptic at the abscense of it, as I said i'm pure agnosticism
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Guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted June 10, 2006 09:17 AM |
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No, how would you explain criminals that say "I have change, I found god in jail now i'm a new man".
My mom's asked me about this scenario before, as she isn't Christian. The answer isn't easy, but I follow a common belief. We can observe a criminal's good behavior for the remainder of his/her years and believe the change was real. Conversely, we might be fooled if the criminal's simply going through the motions, not really a true Christian on the inside. I think that only God is capable of telling whether or not the criminal is truthful to his/her claim. We were told not to judge; it's applicable to this case not only because God says judging the criminal is wrong, but also because judging the criminal is fruitless. We are not all-knowing, so we can only pray and hope that a positive change had indeed taken place.
That's my personal Christian perspective, and I know others have their own views.
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I was reffering here to the other guy who wrote that god leads you in a certain way and wants you to make mistake, and if those mistakes are agains the bible so technically god wants you to sin? I just didn't see the meaning of this guy's post. I don't want to get into Satan/God disputes :-p
I think the "for a reason" part could be taken several ways. I think ChEsHiReKaT meant that God uses all of life's experiences to shape people into stronger, morally upright individuals. It's a given that people make mistakes and get into trouble. When those instances occur, God uses them to open people's eyes and help them to mature. It isn't God's will to have you mess up and hurt yourself, but God's plan embraces growing and improving no matter the situation.
That's my interpretation, at least.
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His invitation to recieve salvation is sorta not an invitation but a blunt fact: you embrace jesus you go to heaven, you deny jesus you go to hell. And what about all those hindus i ask you?
I'm afraid I cannot answer this question. This leads into the whole discussion about why God didn't just erase the sin of Adam out of love for humanity and promise salvation to everyone. I suspect there's an understanding that's yet to be revealed, but we won't know until it happens. I hate to stretch the cliche'd phrase yet again, but I believe God's plan is indeed mysterious at times. Of course, it might only be that it's not my place to know the specific details of that plan. It sounds silly, I know. But a lot of Christians believe that God makes himself known to all people at least once in their lifetime. That's a theory we can play around with, but I confess it's basically a popular guess.
All that scientific discussion is beyond me, as I'm very poor in science.
-Guitarguy
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