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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: I gave up on believing in God.
Thread: I gave up on believing in God. This Popular Thread is 204 pages long: 1 ... 15 16 17 18 19 ... 30 60 90 120 150 180 204 · «PREV / NEXT»
TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted April 26, 2007 07:27 PM

With conscience, you would not be alive -- otherwise even computers are alive (right now, 'conventional' computers).

In a world without living creatures, does it matter if there is 1000000 Kelvin outside?

let's say scientifical: light is only energy -- it isn't "green", it isn't "red". That's the head that gets and renders that color in our heads. Actually it doesn't even have a 'shape'. that's also our heads that renders shapes.
how will a world without living creatures behave?
certainly it won't "touch", "feel", "see", etc.. these are in our heads

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted April 27, 2007 07:09 AM bonus applied.
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 07:17, 27 Apr 2007.

@The Death
Quote:
Everything is actually 'only in our heads'.

Would you be able to see/walk/feel/touch/anything without a head?



Just because a country (monarchy) doesn't run without a king, doesn't mean the king is the country..


Besides, I don't see the point in thinking that nothing is real. I mean come on, take a walk, or at least open a window, get some fresh air. If nothing was real, how could we ever get up from our knees? How could we ever recover? You need to move on from that idea.

Not everything is in our heads. If you think that something is a dog and I think that it's a hamburger doesn't make it simultaneously both. There has to be some reference point. Just because no one can find it, each only having his own perspective, doesn't mean that there isn't SOMETHING that the thing ACTUALLY IS, in reality. One of us is delusional. Or both. But the thing is something. There is such thing as real.




And what makes me think god is so naive? You need to look at it from another perspective. Everyone thinks that god is so real because the idea has been around for ever and sounds, well, sound. But that's the point. It's just another idea. Why should we believe in this one over any other? You will rebut this straight away, only because you can't see from any other perspective other than that of a theist. To you, god is there, and always will be there, you can't seem to think of god as an 'idea'.
It's not 'why isn't god there' 'prove that god isn't there' or 'why won't you believe in god'
There's no reason to. It's ludicrous, but no one seems to understand that. It's just another story. I'm not going to throw my life to it.
Faith makes anything possible, but it doesn't make them real.

I went to church again this morning. Religion is a powerful thing, to raise such great buildings. I feel sorry for the person who built it, erecting such a labour intensive monument to a false heaven..


Quote:
With conscience, you would not be alive -- otherwise even computers are alive (right now, 'conventional' computers).


Alive: Moves, grows, reproduces, respires, senses, takes nutrition and excretes..

You're thinking of sentient.

Quote:
In a world without living creatures, does it matter if there is 1000000 Kelvin outside?


Matter to who? What kind of a question is that?

Quote:
let's say scientifical: light is only energy -- it isn't "green", it isn't "red". That's the head that gets and renders that color in our heads. Actually it doesn't even have a 'shape'. that's also our heads that renders shapes.

Sure, colors may be figments of our imagination, but light has a wavelength and a frequency..
And it is reflecting off of something. The color may be subjective but the 'thing' is there.

Quote:
how will a world without living creatures behave?
certainly it won't "touch", "feel", "see", etc.. these are in our heads


Of course it won't have those things because they are senses of living creatures. The world without living creatures won't have telephones either but that doesn't mean that telephones don't exist.

Senses are part of what makes us alive. I don't know why you find them so childish..


@Zombielord
Quote:
We can make everything 'real' with our head only (telekinesis)

no, telekinesis is moving things with your mind..
And thinking that something is real does not mean it is real.

@Baklava:
Quote:
Can you touch your thoughts?
Yet you know they're there...

Who said that only things that you can touch are there?


But, you know it's entirely possible that our thoughts have no effect on our actions whatsoever, though.
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bixie
bixie


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my common sense is tingling!
posted April 27, 2007 07:07 PM

my point is that as humans, we assume that we exist as human beings and, therefore, right, not a thoughts in some-one else head, or as playthings to aliens.

we assume that what we see, feel, hear, taste, smell is all real. stuff we read about is in question, unless we experience it for real.

however, what if it is false?

they have managed to create virtual reality suits that have managed to engage sight, sound and touch. what if a more advanced race of aliens created suits that engaged taste and smell. and we are merely guinea pigs for this creation, or people who have brought it to experience it.

we can never know anything for certain. we merely come up with theories, and if they are close to the truth, then we stick to them until another one comes along that looks more promising. however, we don't know what the truth is, so we might be going round and round in circles.
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted April 28, 2007 03:33 AM

What's your point?

Yes, it is possible. But if you look at it like that, anything is possible.

But I don't check under my bed everynight.
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bixie
bixie


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my common sense is tingling!
posted April 28, 2007 08:40 AM

exactly, anything is possible.

for all we know, god, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny and the bogeyman could all be having a laugh about how humanity has gone in the wrong direction.

i'm not saying that they exist, but we shouldn't rule out the possiblity that they don't.

likewise, whose to say we exist as we know it. we could be alien experiments, toys, virtual life alternatives. we are still experimenting with the truth, and there are always possiblities. in a universe this size, there are boundless possiblities, even though some might have a very small probabity.

maybe next, we will find out that we can fly all by ourselves, or that we can breath fire, or turn into frogs?
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted April 28, 2007 02:44 PM

Quote:

i'm not saying that they exist, but we shouldn't rule out the possiblity that they don't.

No, but we shouldn't linger on it.
Acknowledge it if it makes you happy, then move on.


Quote:

maybe next, we will find out that we can fly all by ourselves, or that we can breath fire, or turn into frogs?


Maybe. until then I guess we're stuck on the ground
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bixie
bixie


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my common sense is tingling!
posted April 28, 2007 10:25 PM

as i have stated before, how do we have any idea what is real or not if we are still looking for the truth?

maybe we have been looking in the wrong place. or maybe we have just treated it as somebody elses problem and left it alone.

this debate has been going on since the beginning of time. people who think in this way are classified as mad and locked up. what if they aren't mad, and they are actually seeing the world for what it is, and we are just too arrogant to take it in as a possiblity.

we, as a species, think that what we see and feel etc. is real life. but what if it all is a grand illusion?

never take anything for real... why? because if it is proven to be false, you have just lost everything you believe in.

believing in something is what makes it aparently real. people believed in god, and when people died of disease its because they did something wrong, and when people were cured then it was a miracle. people believed in magic, and when people died of disease its because they did something that offended the witch/wizard/druid/shaman etc,  and when people were cured the spellcaster to thank. now people believe in science, and when people died of disease its because they did something to make them get bacteria and a virus, and when people were cured then it was all down to anti-biotics and injections.

peoples truths change, as we choose what we want to believe.
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted April 29, 2007 09:44 AM

Quote:
as i have stated before, how do we have any idea what is real or not if we are still looking for the truth?


Because we made up the word real, we can define it.
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bixie
bixie


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my common sense is tingling!
posted April 29, 2007 02:22 PM

Quote:
Quote:
as i have stated before, how do we have any idea what is real or not if we are still looking for the truth?

maybe we have been looking in the wrong place. or maybe we have just treated it as somebody elses problem and left it alone.

this debate has been going on since the beginning of time. people who think in this way are classified as mad and locked up. what if they aren't mad, and they are actually seeing the world for what it is, and we are just too arrogant to take it in as a possiblity.

we, as a species, think that what we see and feel etc. is real life. but what if it all is a grand illusion?

never take anything for real... why? because if it is proven to be false, you have just lost everything you believe in.

believing in something is what makes it aparently real. people believed in god, and when people died of disease its because they did something wrong, and when people were cured then it was a miracle. people believed in magic, and when people died of disease its because they did something that offended the witch/wizard/druid/shaman etc,  and when people were cured the spellcaster to thank. now people believe in science, and when people died of disease its because they did something to make them get bacteria and a virus, and when people were cured then it was all down to anti-biotics and injections.

peoples truths change, as we choose what we want to believe.



Humans made up the word and meaning of illusion. Magical illusions aren't reality, it's a made-up story by man.

BTW all those things are made up by man, so thats why you can say they aren't real.

Ilussion in the real world is a much more different thing, more of a over-heated brain syndrom, that only crazy or disturbed people encounter. Much like that you walk in the desert without water for a long time.


again, what is the real world? is it here, somewhere else, nothing, what?

we are more likely to destroy the universe than to find out what is actually going on in it.

any way, this has come a long way from the original discussion.

"I gave up believing in god"

lets talk more about that. comforts come in many forms, religion, science, magic, stories. so to give up believing in a comfort is a big step to take. this prompts the question "why"?
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted April 29, 2007 02:25 PM

I prefer to live my life for me and not for someone else.
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bixie
bixie


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my common sense is tingling!
posted April 29, 2007 02:36 PM

alright, fair enough
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maretti
maretti


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posted April 29, 2007 05:20 PM

About IQ and religion: http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-thinkingchristians.htm
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted April 29, 2007 08:26 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 20:29, 29 Apr 2007.

Quote:
Correction

You CAN know that everything you said above is a lie as it's just not realistic.
How? By intercepting light waves which YOUR brain processes?

Put it like this: if humans did NOT have ears, would they know sound right now? Does that mean sound doesn't exist in that situation?

if I, for example, could do magic which NO ONE ELSE could see, because I would lift my soul to a different plane of existence, does that mean that it is illogical?

Yes of course it's illogical for YOU. You come back from the future, you tell people about your 'fairy tale', does it matter that they believe you?

Another example would be obvious. For me it's illogical that the Earth is not flat. so what? if it's illogical for me that doesn't make it false.

So who cares magic/shamanism is illogical for you or most other people? That doesn't vanish them

by the way these were only examples, not my actual thoughts (like the Earth flat-thing).

Quote:
If anything of that was real we would have seen ANYTHING of that already
Like what? Light waves of God or something?

Senses are not childish, but do NOT limit yourself to them.
You do not see a magnetic field, yet you know it's there by it's effect.
However, what if this magnetic field is actually accelerated by some god (not the creator God)? You don't care, so what? Not everyone shares your opinion.

Quote:
Some things like god, teleportation, lifting things with your mind(Telekinesis) and talking to others with your mind (telepathy), are fiction and will NEVER be reality.
Reality = subjective.

If you think reality is the daily life you do = you swallow the Blue pill. You want to believe that you know everything and anything that you can't understand means it doesn't exist. fine, be ignorant.

However not all people take the Blue pill mind you. I would have taken the Red pill for example. Yeah I think I already took it, that's why I believe



Picture this as well:

the average monkey probably cannot understand the magentic field concept. He/she says it is illogical, fiction.

the average human probably cannot understand the religion concept. He/she says it is illogical, fiction. Even if some believe, they cannot comprehend it.

what makes you think that you know what is logical and what not? or what is fiction? reality does equal what you think is logical.
If I think differently (different sense for logic), then of course I would be floating in a different reality, so to speak. For you I would be insane. For me, you would be insane.

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ZombieLord
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posted April 29, 2007 09:21 PM

Quote:
Some things like god, teleportation, lifting things with your mind(Telekinesis) and talking to others with your mind (telepathy), are fiction and will NEVER be reality.

How do you know? It has been said the same for human flying (with a machine heavier than a bird) until someone figured it out. I'm sure 1000 years ago the people would have been saying that electricity (if they even knew what that is) is impossible to achieve. Or electric/magnetic fields.

How do you know that our brains are not emitting some 'brain' fields not yet known, that, when amplified, would allow you to interact with the environment (Telekinesis)?

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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted April 29, 2007 09:47 PM

Quote:
And religion is something that was written down, those things are made up by humans and so are not true.
Really?
Magnetic field concept is made by humans as well, for example.

Quote:
Magic is a dream, it's not reality, if you can't see that you should go to the shrink (good spelling?)
Blind people can't see yet the world does exist around them.

if you were both deaf and blind, would you still believe in light and sound? do they exist? (supposing all humans were deaf and blind)

that is why it's naive to limit yourself to your five senses. There is a reason for that 'limit' word I typed.

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


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posted April 29, 2007 09:49 PM

Quote:
Telekinesis (like stated twice already) is mind-power, lifting things with the strength of your mind.

Define mind-power or strength of mind.
In my example, it would be the 'brains field' (which when amplified would allow you to move objects)

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ZombieLord
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posted April 29, 2007 10:00 PM
Edited by ZombieLord at 22:04, 29 Apr 2007.

Quote:
Flying cars would be possible already, was it not for all the dangerous situations and unnessairy deaths and accidents that would happen if they created one.

Really in machine-language everything is possible, but telekinesis and magic has nothing really NOTHING to do with mechianical inventions.

It is not about a comparison between new machines and other 'magic' stuff, that was just an example of an 'impossible' thing; It was about things that are discovered and created, things that were considered impossible to achieve

And what about the electric/magnetic field? They could be considered 'magic' as well, as my brains field, right?

I'm not saying this brains field exists for sure, but there is a possibility that it may. The point is that you must NOT THINK we know everything, including GOD.

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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted April 29, 2007 10:02 PM

Quote:
It's naieve to limit yourself to a book that is written down in the time of people with chicken brains
What makes them more chicken brains than you?

Of course the book was written and perhaps a bit twisted by humans, but book does not equal God or believing in him.

Quote:
And zombielord, creating flying cars or creating devices to give a human telekinesis powers are two VERY different things.
You seem to be the type "I want to see proof of that before I trust it" or similar, hence your addiction to science.

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bixie
bixie


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my common sense is tingling!
posted April 29, 2007 10:03 PM

meh, what about stuff like nature books?  

so the entire DK series doesn't count for anything?

i'm with the death and zombielord on this one. how do we know what is real or what isn't.
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maretti
maretti


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posted April 29, 2007 11:48 PM

There are many things we cant know for sure. That dosent mean that anything anyones imagination comes up with should be considered the truth or a possible truth without one single scientific evidence.

A question to you religious people: Do you know god exists or do you just consider it a possibility? If you just consider it a possibility is it with approximatly 99% chance, 50% chance or is it impossible to set a percentage?
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