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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted December 05, 2006 08:45 PM |
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Sorry to interfere with your intense thread, just a few thoughts of my own on this subject. I have read the Bible on and off at different points in my roller coaster life. I have attended various churches and I sat in church and at different points, depending on which church, and was surrounded by people that were wonderful and some that were just trying to matter. I have fell asleep during services, ran my pantyhose, and snuck off to the kitchen to grab homemade cookies before they were all gone. I have placed money in the sin bin, as I call it, walked the plank of religion verses free will, and even taught Sunday school. All and all it was never a bad choice for me to go because I never got caught up in the cult like feel that some churches give off. I was there for some insight and for some wisdom from the elders.
Here is a brief overview of what I have learned. Proverbs 6:25 states, "Do not lust in your heart after her beauty or let her captivate you with her eyes.” I take this verse as a man that would otherwise be a messenger of God, is now taken over by the women across the street that is batting her lustful eyes at him. The Bible enjoys helping the male gender with their lustful feelings and does a fine job of making us women look like snows. Job 31:1 states, “I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a girl.” Here we see the Bible portraying the males as, *holds on to seat* snowS. I bet that everyone on HC could write back and tell me that I’m dead wrong. They could give me their own breakdown of what this means to them.
This is what I learned through my years of church jumping, contradicting verses that have been placed on a silver platter and handed over to those that are struggling in life. They are presented to us so we can find some comfort in something outside of the world that we have learned to hate. When we are desperate for change, when love has failed us, when we are clinging to the bathroom wall and watching our tears fall, and when we chase empty dreams, some turn to this platter. Some open up their leather bound salvation of red words and begin somewhere in the book that ”faith” has drawn them to. They read it and then they spend the next hour turning it upside down and trying to put some meaning behind it so they may find the answer that saves them from themselves. I met great people in church and I met people that I would not leave my children alone with, EVER. I never met God, but as far as the definition of Jesus is concerned, I have met people that would sure challenge him in his position. They would give you anything and sacrifice everything just to see that you were ok. That to me is what gives me faith in the world and faith in others.
So I use the word loosely to those around me to have “faith”, however what I mean by that is to have faith in themselves that they will prevail in this life, that they see the wrong and they attempt to make it right. That they try to have faith in others around them to help bring them down the best path, as we never make it alone. You should never give your whole self to just one thing in life that you feel will give you the golden ticket. Dumping yourself into just letting God take over or waiting for the world to end is not a healthy way to live. Spread yourself out a bit and look around you for opportunities to improve yourself. Let’s just say that since we are all made of energy to begin with, that when we die our energy (souls) would be transformed into a new energy. This to some would be considered the afterlife and to others it translates into heaven or hell. If this happens then whatever positive energy you have given away will come around tenfold. Whatever negative energy you have forced on others will come back as well.
To me, IMO, it is not about heaven, hell, or winged white virgin angels. It is not about man written, contradicting red words on paper. It is however, about loving one another and trying as hard as we can to do the right thing. Not to do it because we think there may be a seat waiting for us at the all mighty turkey buffet in heaven or to do it so those virgin angels will save themselves just for you. You do it because inside that is who you are and that is the energy that you wish to pass to others. If any of us solely turn to religion, God, or in your case TA, nothing, then we really don’t see the whole picture. It isn’t about always trying to figure out why we are here or what the purpose is. Everyone can agree that none of us will really know until the day we leave. Sin is sin and to the averagely intelligent person is common sense in its definition. You know the difference between right and wrong and you know how being a mean spirited person feels to you inside. Do what is right in life and have hope, if faith is just to vague of a word for you, that people will say great things about what you did while you were and what you stood for, whether you believed or not…..
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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antipaladin
Promising
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of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted December 05, 2006 10:10 PM |
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my belive
Events turned out made me lose it,i do not mention the name often,praphes in a debete of it alegd doings.
i dont know how often i wanted to make it a vassel for my hope,so i can pray to god and hope things will improve,but i dont want to delude myself,thats not what ''god,, made for.
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types in obscure english
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Dingo
Responsible
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posted December 06, 2006 02:19 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 09:33, 05 May 2008.
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Fun Stuff
I just read this whole thread with the exception of WHY DO PEOPLE BELIEVE IN GOD? By T.A.. I plan on reading that when I have some more energy and time. A lot of interesting stuff in here. I'm been raised as an Orthodox Christian, however I've never gotten around to reading the Bible.
First of all I'd like to get a somewhat definitive view on God. What/who is God? Is God: God, Jesus, Buddha, Zeus, Mohammed, and George Bush? This definition I feel gets the point across: God is a metaphysical concept, greater than humanity, worthy of trust and devotion.
The Christian monotheistic God has many Divine Attributes. God is Omnipotent: all-powerful. God is Omniscient: all knowing. God is Omnibenevolent: All good. God is Omnipresent: God is everywhere. God is Actus Purus: God is absolute perfection. God is Timelessness: God is beyond all time and laws of physics. God is Immutable: God cannot influenced. God is Simplistic: God cannot be divided.
There lies a problem in God's Divine Attributes, many of them contradict simple logical possibilities, and seem to beg the question. To become "damned" is being placed the furthest away from God, usually the darkest deepest corner of Hell. But if God is Omnipresent, then isn't he in the darkest corner of hell as well?
If God is Omnipotent, can God microwave a burrito so hot that even God himself could not eat it? The common answer would be No, because God is Omniscient God knows better, it would be stupid to microwave a burrito that hot. Well then if God is truly omniscient and God knows everything that has/will happen then doesn't this cancel out the idea of Free Will? Free Will also contradicts God being Omnibenevolent, because our Free Will is capable of evil. God giving us Free Will, inadvertently gives us Evil, so therefore God has given us evil, and God giving us evil is a paradox to being Omnibenevolent. Only argument I have found against this is; there is no evil, just lesser degrees of good. Which confuses me on the nature/reason for a Hell. Also if God is Immutable, why pray? You can't change God's mind.
Why people believe in God.
Fear of the natural world or unknown, people are afraid of things they cannot comprehend. The fear of death is unavoidable, and having a strong firm belief in something that can promise an afterlife/immortality helps people sleep better at night. There is also an objectification of our instinctive desire to be loved. "God Loves You." < That statement reassures all monotheistic believers in humanity. It is natural desire to be loved. Being loved feels good. Belief in a God feels good, answers every question, and gives people a sense of security.
God/Religion also play a vital role in the controlling the masses and keeping a structured government. Imagine what would happen if religion was eradicated throughout the globe. People would realize that a, "Holy War" is simply a scam and not worth fighting, especially since you only live once. Since it becomes untrue that it's easier for a poor man to get into heaven, than a rich one etc. People on the bottom of society would do anything to get to the top. Laws are based on Religious moral and ethical values. Religions keep together what governments cannot. A religiously focused nation, such as America becomes easier to control. "Divine Tactic" is still vigorously alive. Ask an American who God favors more, the U.S.A. or North Korea and the answer is usually quite patriotic. This blind religious mindset makes it much easier for a nation to become a zealot warmonger and declare Justified wars for the greater good. So somehow in the end society ends up pleasing an immutable God.
There are just too many paradoxes and contradictions for God to be real.
You just have to have faith, I guess.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted December 06, 2006 04:14 PM |
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nice post dingo.  one thing you did was define god with a hypothesis which I didn't bother to do in my essay because that's not what it's about, and it's long enough anyway 
but i didn't pick up whether you actually believe in god, or just understand it (which you seem to do)
and as for what you said about how praying may be pointless was interesting I hadn't thought about that.
btw I edited my essay with the second draft but it's late and ic ant be bothered fixing the bb code.
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John says to live above hell.
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Elvin
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Endless Revival
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posted December 07, 2006 02:28 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 14:50, 07 Dec 2006.
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I just noticed this.I haven't read the other replies but here are my thoughts:
Maybe you are right,maybe you are not.Nobody has any kind of proof either way.There has been no divine intervention we have witnessed that cannot be scientifically explained as something else.God does not seem to help save good people and rich bastards have a great influence on our lives occasionally playing with us to satisfy their whims.
Still that may mean nothing to you and me as we cannot even begin to comprehend the greater plan assuming God exists.You don't have proof for his inexistence either.But it's not about proof or what you can see.Our sences can easily deceive us and create illusions anyway.
It is all about faith.To believe in something that may not even be there because you agree with the philosophy that comes with it as well as the beauty that is everpresent in nature and anything that is not touched by man.There is harmony there too well planned to be random.But mostly I believe because it is my choice as it is your choice not to.And not because I hope that I will gain a place in paradise just because I was a good person.
What I have come to believe gradually is that although God created all things,he let things take their way,let us make our choices.People will die that probably shouldn't,nature is being corrupted as well as human souls yet it is all because of the freedom we are given to choose either the good,neutral or evil path if you even believe such things exist.Let's not get into morality as it seems to be a human value that everyone perceives differently.
If you choose to believe,Jesus Christ was more than a gifted man,one whose things you have heard about are true.Some signs have been given,it's all about how you will consider them.As a sidenote I absolutely don't believe in the 'miracles' priests show as bleeding paintings and such as they are known to do such things to not allow people stray from their path.Or get more money.A good number of them are not as poor with the whole charity thingy while people starve.
Finally I am unsure of how much I believe from the bible.Sure many things are symbolical and have a deeper meaning but let's not forget that they were written by humans who may have been biased.It all comes down to your experiences and whether you want to believe or not.
A personal choice.
Edit:
About lust and greed etc it's not just that.It's is you will let it dominate your life and allow it to come on top of other things.
As dragonslayer I am not so set on the practice.You can't be good all the time and many people will certainly not be good on you.You must defend yourself and at the same time kick some @ss if others treat you or any friend/family poorly.I don't care to be as good as I can be but I trust my conscience and I will act good if I can.Laws cannot be obeyed in this respect as they cannot be applied correctly in all cases.I want to live my life as well except for helping others and limiting my choices.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted January 18, 2007 03:49 PM |
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just a note, I'd much rather people read my views from my essay posted, rather than the rest of my posts in the thread.
@Elvin:
Everyone points out how you can't prove god, but you can't prove his inexistence.
I personally find this statement ridiculous. True, but alot of things are true that you don't take into account.
Monsters. There's no strong evidence at all, anywhere, anytime of monsters existing. Ever.
BUT, there's no proof against them! So we must take into account that there's the possibility of monsters! We should check under our beds every night! Or go to church every sunday!
It's worth it to waste our life doing these things so long as we don't get EATEN! Or eternally damned, take your pick.
But is it not greedy and selfish, to worship god just so you can go to heaven?
The believer would say, would it be selfish to save your parents lives just so you can be with them?
They say this because everyone can relate to this. Everyone (and when I say everyone, I mean almost everyone) automatically says, no, of course not. Because everyone would be guilty of this, we take it for granted that it can't be bad. But it would, technically, be selfish. If you were to save your parents life so you could comfort them, or so that they could have a happy life, then that would be a different case. But you don't want to go to heaven just so God can enjoy your presence, right?
But if not for selfish reasons, why should we worship god? Just for the sake of it? Because he's holy? Because he deserves worship? Alot of people don't get what they deserve, even if god does deserve our faith.
What about the story of Job, when god afflicted him just to see if he'd still be worshipped, for NO REASON?
What sensible reason CAN there be? To end up all snug in heaven, that's why.
It's our inbuilt, HUMAN functionality (that believers like to call 'sin') that makes us selfish like this, and is the exact reason why Christianity was invented in the first place.
I've gotta find a way to put a point across without posing a rhetorical question.
And I also shouldn't be posting this. All it achieves is pissing off a bunch of people... 
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John says to live above hell.
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Consis
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Of Ruby
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posted January 19, 2007 05:42 AM |
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No TitaniumAlloy,
I am glad you posted it. Sharing your thoughts is very important. You have a value of one. Your opinion is equally as important as mine or anyone else's. I think it was courageous of you to post it especially since you were afraid of what other people might say. Who is to say if you're right or wrong? Just be yourself.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted January 19, 2007 06:50 AM |
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Thanks Consis, I hope that most people understand that.
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John says to live above hell.
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alcibiades
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posted January 20, 2007 02:08 AM |
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This is, obviously, the topic that's never going to die, because the subject is one that we all have an oppinion about. I have read through the whole thread (albeit I admit not the entire in detail), and I have some things I need to respond to in your posts, T_A.
One of the things that strike me as remarkable from your original post - and several of the subsequent ones - is your marked expression of a feeling of delusion and frustration now that you have discovered the truth about God - this meening, that you have realized that there is no God. Furthermore, these feelings seem to originate in a belief that you have been deceived on purpose to believe these things, through your upbringing and through the norms of society. This, in time, makes you go to the conclusion that God and religion is something bad, and that you will actually help people by making them come to the realization that there is no God. I know this is putting things on the edge, but that is what I read from your posts and subsequent discussions on page 1.
Now why do I object to this? I object, because there is no equality between God, religion, church, personal belief and society norms. These are reflections of fundamentally different aspects of human Philosophy through time. As Lith_Maenor pointed out, Religion is essentially the philosophical codex, whereas Church is an institution that interprets this philosophy and transfers it to society, in time affecting the norms of society. But just because you don't like the Church, whitchever church that may be, and feals that the teachings of the Church are deceitful, that does not mean that there is no God.
But then, can we say anything about whether there is a God or no? Modern science has certainly shown us, that the evolution of like on Earth certainly does not need any interference of a higher power. In fact, even though the principles are not entirely understood (and are still controversal) it seems that life can have originated on Earth by pure coincidence, alone favored by climate and physical and chemical environment. The creation of the Earth and Solar System from an interstellar gas cloud is well understood, and the creation of this gas cloud through a Super Nova can link back to previous solar systems, and in that way, we can basically extend back to the origin of the Universe with the Big Bang. The Big Bang is in every way a singularity, and cannot be explained by any known physical model! So there alone lies the possibility of the Divine Intervention. We cannot prove it, but fact is that something happened, and we still don't understand what or why. In fact, the Big Bang theory have made many physics embrace the concept of a Divine prescence. And yet - on the bottom line we are none the wiser - it still just amounts to a matter of belief.
Then why should we not just have gone with the whole thing - no more religion, no more God - when we have no proof he exists? Because Religion is probably the greatest invention ever of mankind. Religion has been crucial in the development of the early civilizations: How could mankind ever retain the will to strife forward if they started to contemplate on the vastnes of the University, and the fact that we might be here by only pure coincidence? What would be there motivation to go on, if there was no purpose to it all? What would stop them from breaking down in fear when facing this enormous hostile emptines? Religion not only answered all the 'why's, 'how's and 'what if's, it also presented mankind with a purpose in life - something to motivate.
And then comes the legendary question: Is a life worth anything, if it's built on false premises? If Religion, and God as it describes him, is just a big scam, something some clever man made up, does that not mean that the life of all those people are wasted, false? Maybe. But does it matter? Not really - they lived their life based on what they believed to be true, and furthermore, what they probably had to believe to be true in order to evolve to the place where we are now. To believe that they could have lived their life without that belief and that world today would have been the same, is fooling oneself. Everything comes at its time - now might be the time where science has reached the level where we don't need Religion anymore, but 2000 years ago wasn't, 1000 years ago wasn't either, and neither was 500 years ago. Mankind needs answers, and only today are we able to provide those answers by other means that religion. Without Religion, for all we know, mankind might have perished into chaos and disorder.
So what does that tell us about Religion? Religion has probably been invaluable for mankind, and might be the greatest invention ever, as mentioned - but it's also probably the one invention that has been exploited most against its own purpose. This probably started when someone decided to take all the ancient philosophical writings that are known as the Bible (or whatever one has in other religions) literally. The Bible, or the texts its based upon, was probably never intended to be taken literally for the truth, but rather as a source for contemplation on essential philosophical concepts, and thus a path towards enlightenment. The number of examples of misuse of Religion are too numerous to count, and the consequences this has had for mankind are catastrophical.
All this seems in some way to offer some sort of perverted paradox, that has resulted in the loathing towards religion that many people has in the modernized world. However, this does not change the fact that Religion in its roots is actually about Belief, Trust, Compassion and Understanding. Properties that is a major part of what separates the Human species from the Animals we originated from. If one is ready, one can stick to these things without all the complications Church has imposed on Religion. And if one has reached this state, one should also know that each to his own, and not try to take from others what they might need.
So is there a God? I don't know - and frankly, I don't care. I have no need of a God in my life. But if my fellow men have a need for a belief in God, I will respect this and not interfere with it - as long as they respect my belief, and don't try to interfere with it. Because Belive I do: Science is my God.
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What will happen now?
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted January 20, 2007 04:27 PM |
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It's not the church so much that I care about, but the idea of god as a whole.
TBH, I don't really care. It doesn't affect me that much. But with my personality, when I have an opinion, I have to state it bluntly You know how it is, like a little kid showing off.
but there is a way you can look at it, and it becomes a bit more serious. If you don't believe in god, or share my point of view so to speak, you realize that religion is actually mass delusion. Can you respect a man just as much as another if his life so obviously revolves around such a lie? You can understand why he believes, you can understand why he is unwilling to let go, to take a chance, but deeper than all of that, can you really get closer to him when there's this gaping chasm of belief, which to the non-believer looks like pure fantasy and even craziness...? If you were a serious athiest, you would encounter this often, a similar paradox being if you found your perfect wife, who you love and always wanted in every way, but feel you can't marry her because she stubbornly believes in this god?
Of course, this is NOT how I feel at all, I'm just saying how disbelieving can bring it's disadvantages as well.
But just the idea of a creator to me seems crazy. It's a completely alien concept, and it's only because it's been with us forever that we don't realize this. A supreme entity that created us? Who created the entity? Why did he create us? How is he nowhere? How does that make sense? Questions that are reduntant nowadays because they have tried and tested answers.
God is in an external environment to which the Universal laws do not apply, and in creating the universe he created time, and we cannot concieve his motives etc. How do you know? This was fabricated as an excuse because people don't WANT to realize the truth.
But if God did create the universe, and if he is all powerful, then he would have made it perfect.
But say if we were to stumple upon an alien race called Realists. They have never even thought of a god as such, and then we introduce the idea to them. Do you have any idea how ridiculous, and unnecessary, it would sound?
Try to think about it from an external perspective.
And also, in my essay I pointed out that I disagree with your opinion that religion is good, to some extent. You may be right, that religion helps give structure, motive and morals to the community. But what about the billions of lives which have been lost because of it? Most wars in history were fought over religion.
Again, the idea of god is so well developed, an athiest would be far too late nowadays to prove it wrong. There are too many excuses, too many answers to the questions which point out the fallacy of god, because people want to believe. So the only thing you can do is to apply Occams razor and cut out this entity. If god cannot concievably affect us in our life, then we should remove the idea of him altogether.
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alcibiades
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posted January 21, 2007 05:52 PM |
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The problem is, that I don't think you can evoke Occam's Razor if you go back to the Big Bang. The Big Bang happened for some reason - it might have been conincidence, or it might have been something else. We have no way of knowing. From what I understand, Physicist have a hard time explaining it with pure coincidence.
And yes - if you consider religion and how it has evolved during the last millenia, it is mass delusion - because obviously, there was not a man who walked on water, or turned water into wine. And there's not some great lurker up there, who's going to reward all those who stays on the path (whatever that might imply) and who'll punish all the rest of us. And yes, envoking Religion as a reason for war is indeed completely contrary to the basic ideas of what Religion's all about. So yes, Religion might has evolved into some sort of perverted mutation of itself - you might call it evil, though corrupted would probably be a better word. But that does not mean that Religion started out as a bad thing, because I think it originates in some basical principles that are both beautiful and true - and very defining for our civilizations' evolutions.
And when all comes to all, Atheism in the way you present it is in fact a religion - no better than the rest of them. At least, if you start to judge people based on their fath - how ever silly it might be - you are no worse, no better than any religous person. So yes, let us discuss, let us enlighten each other, and let's question the norms - but also, let us remember to accept our fellow men, just like we want them to accept our beliefs.
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What will happen now?
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted January 25, 2007 01:08 PM |
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Nothing in this world is simple, you're right, but Occam's Razor doesn't prefer something simple or explainable, just the simplest and the fact is, that no matter what you're explaining, the addition of a creator makes it that step more complicated.
But that's like the Audioslave song Revelations, which is about how some religious people go around acting like they know something that everyone else doesn't, and that they have the moral higher ground above people who believe differently.
Quote:
You know what to do, you know what I did
Since you know everything just clue me in
I am such a wreck, I am such a mess
I know what I know, why don't you fill in the rest
I will bring you down, I will make it bad
While you're feelin proud, why don't you help me
Such a shame that I wouldn't know by now
Your revelations
Cut me in, I don't wanna live without
Your revelations
Revelations
You know what to say, you know what I said
You know what I dream sleeping in my bed
You hold all the keys, you know all the roads
Why don't you guide me in, if I'm such a lost soul
I'm spinnin round, I will make you ill
Since I'm so broken down, why don't you fix me
Such a shame that I wouldn't know by now, I wouldn't know by now
Your revelations
Cut me in, I don't wanna live without, don't wanna live without
Your revelations
I am haunted when I am sleeping
Try to give without receiving
It's in the applebite, applebite
It's in the days and nights, days and nights
In the afterlife we'll reap
Such a shame that I wouldn't know by now, I wouldn't know by now
Your revelations
Cut me in, I don't wanna live without, don't wanna live without
Your revelations
Such a shame, such a shame that I wouldn't know by now
Cut me in, I don't wanna live without, don't wanna live without
Your revelations
Revelations
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John says to live above hell.
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alcibiades
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posted January 26, 2007 10:03 AM |
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Quote:
But that's like the Audioslave song Revelations, which is about how some religious people go around acting like they know something that everyone else doesn't, and that they have the moral higher ground above people who believe differently.
Yeah, but ... As I see it, you're doing sort of the same thing right now.
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What will happen now?
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Wightmaster
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 27, 2007 04:23 PM |
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Belive or not belive?
Some people belive in God, some don't, me for example.
Many people that belive in God from their childhood because their mother and father did. But their faith grew stronger as they grew older. They maybe start to think: "Does God really exicist?". IMO people that think this have not true faith in God.
I know very few people that really belive in God, and I know some people that belive when things go bad for them. But I don't care, cause people should belive what they want, not waht other belive. People belive differentley, get used to it. I'm not saying it to one single person, but everyone.
I know this is off-topic, but when I read this I felt that I must say my opinion.
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Aculias
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posted January 27, 2007 07:55 PM |
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Well parents out so much pressure on thier kids to go to church & even enough pressure to preach in the bible everyday to them.
I think when kids nowadays grow up they have seen no proof of god or whatever god they grew up to worship.
I mean have yall ever seen him?
Have you heard him?
Have you felt him?
I have not but I have felt evil before.
Enough evil to make Snowflakes hair turn white .
There are many different religion from many different countries.
Depending on the beliefs of our ancestors.
Every country is different & many despise other countries.
Why do you think we have religious wars?
We are so different.
Being on here I realized alot of hate from people.
One being religion.
ANother being us Americans in general.
How do you say in the fact%
Fat lazy Americans who are not smart.
Yes it is a fact we do have the fattest % in America.
It dont mean the whole population is fat,as a matter of fact a good % of us are far from it.
Lazy, yes we are lazy too.
We dont have the pressure like in other countries from our parents.
It is up to us to actually go out & do stuff.
Again the % is not as drastic as some foriegn countris think.
Smart again anyone can be smart if they really wanted to.
Then again many who makes fun of us Americans will come to our land to attend school lol.
Funny how the mind works.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Ted
Promising
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Peanut Exterminator
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posted January 27, 2007 10:03 PM |
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well i think that people generally like the idea that theirs something after life, and that some 1 watchs over them,
and aculias, americas not fattest anymore (new poll was taken) britain fatter, *eating donut whole* i wonder why?
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Aculias
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posted January 27, 2007 10:20 PM |
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Funny the last argument I got into almost a yr ago was with a British person.
People believe what they do not understand.
Like the topic we had before.
Reading about stuff or actually experiencing whats really out there.
People just dont know without seeing with thier own eyes.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 28, 2007 01:50 AM |
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Compared to people who believe in god, ateists IQ is in average 5,8 points higher. (Yes, im also supprised the diffrence is that small)
Acording to Newsweek only 37% of americans would vote for an ateist as president even if he was top qualified in all (other) aspects.
87% of americans never doubt that god exists.
How can you blame people who believe that the majority of americans are morons?
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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satanic_death
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 28, 2007 11:16 AM |
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well i dont believe in god. im not catholic as you can proberly tell from my user name.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted January 28, 2007 11:43 AM |
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@Alc: Well, I can't really argue with you here, but it is slightly different. I'm not contesting for the moral high-ground 
See Maretti's excellent post haha.
@Maretti: No one blames them
"In God We Trust" printed everywhere, what happened to religious freedom?
You're allowed to believe in whatever you want, as long as it's God. And the same God as us. Yep.
@Aculias:
You mentioned about parents making their kids pray and read the bible etc. I wrote about this in my essay about how this is pretty average.
I mean to do that to a kid is to say he is christian, or whatever relgion is in question. Christian means that you believe that god created the universe, agree wholeheartedly with all the moral values and issues raised from the religion itself. To say that a young child supports a complex religion like that is like saying that your child follows the Marxist philosophy, or is Anti-Darwinist, when they have absolutely no idea about it. Theyre too young to understand these things. A young child cannot have a religion, unless it is forced upon them.
In which case they didn't choose their religion at all. If child A was born into a christian family and brought up to be a christian, then he would not doubt his religion, but it is not his choosing. However, he thinks that all other religions are false. If the same child was instead brought up in a different family, with a different religion forced upon them, say, Islam, then they would believe the exact opposite.
Does anyone else see anything wrong with that?
In one instance the child believes that christianity is absolutely right, and that Islam is wrong, because, well that's what it is. Because his parents told him that's what it is. As it is with most christians. They are right because, why, their parents made them read the bible?
Then the Islam baby is absolutely sure he is right and that the christians are wrong.
They can't both be right. They haven't experienced both with a clean slate, and decided, this one is right. They were told which one, and they will defend that with all they have.
It's like a bunch of kids being assigned a team on a sport. Regardless of the team, the kids will think that THEIR one is the best.
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John says to live above hell.
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