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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Wizards or Warriors?
Thread: Wizards or Warriors? This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT»
law558
law558


Adventuring Hero
posted May 22, 2006 01:51 PM

Wizards or Warriors?

I've played the haven campaign, and part of the inferno.

For haven, My heroes were more warriors, but even at high levels, they did partically no damage,
while
In the inferno campaign, I'm only at the start of the third level and my wizard like hero can do huge amounts of magical damage.

Are wizards and warriors evenily matched?
Can warriors ever do real damage?

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JustAFan
JustAFan

Tavern Dweller
posted May 22, 2006 03:43 PM

Sad but true - Wizards. The Academy Mentor for example is the most privileged in the start because of his summon elemental skill. While he collects the mines around him with ease, other players will suffer heavy losses while taking them.

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ILMS
ILMS

Tavern Dweller
posted May 22, 2006 04:59 PM

I do not agree,because for example Knight has abilities like Retribution, which combined with Leadership have devastating effect.I won't even mention Ranger's nature's luck.Warrior is useful because of bonuses he gives to his troops.Mages deal great ammount of damage but their initiative is low.

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Betruger
Betruger


Known Hero
empowered mind
posted May 22, 2006 10:51 PM
Edited by Betruger at 22:52, 22 May 2006.

I think you got it wrong law558.
The high values of attack, and defence of the hero do not mean he'll do more damage. It means that creatures under his command get higher attack and defence skill, therefore they are doing more dmg.
The damage that hero does to an enemy (when you attack him with your hero, not the spell) depends only on hero's level. Not on his stats.

So the difference between warrior and wizard is that warrior's creatures do more damage, and wizard has greater spell power -> spells do more damage.

Besides i think going for warrior hero is the best, because when armies get big, the spells that do direct damage are not that useful. It's far better to clone your stack of 20 paladins, than to cast implosion on enemy for expamle.
Or mass righteous might, or mass haste - those are very beneficial in big battles.

Although I admit that heroes who go for direct damage spells have usually easier beggining

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Thanatos
Thanatos


Known Hero
posted May 22, 2006 11:00 PM
Edited by Thanatos at 23:01, 22 May 2006.

Quote:
I've played the haven campaign, and part of the inferno.

For haven, My heroes were more warriors, but even at high levels, they did partically no damage,
while
In the inferno campaign, I'm only at the start of the third level and my wizard like hero can do huge amounts of magical damage.

Are wizards and warriors evenily matched?
Can warriors ever do real damage?


I don't see how the Demon Lords are mages to be honest... spellpower is one of their worst attributes Or are there simply loads of Planetariums around in the Inferno campaign?

Anyway, I suppose it depends on what you like more to determine who is the most powerful... Haven's heroes' defensive style doesn't suit me at all so it's not very powerful, while Inferno's more offensive style suits me much better so it's more powerful in my hands.
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law558
law558


Adventuring Hero
posted May 22, 2006 11:11 PM

Quote:
Quote:


I don't see how the Demon Lords are mages to be honest... spellpower is one of their worst attributes Or are there simply loads of Planetariums around in the Inferno campaign?


I'm not saying demon lords are more wizard than warrior. Just That I chose mostly magic based skills for my demon hero.

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Thanatos
Thanatos


Known Hero
posted May 22, 2006 11:13 PM

Ah, my bad in that case
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silentbobus
silentbobus


Adventuring Hero
posted May 26, 2006 03:23 AM

In the old heroes I always thought Warriors with large armies and augmentation spells were the strongest, I'm still going through the Haven campaign in this one, so I haven't cast any spells yet.

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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted May 26, 2006 04:02 AM

i find it hard to be a non-Light, non-Destruction magic user... Light because you've got specialties which make you lose only half your initiative when casting some spells, or Destruction because it can really turn the tide of a battle (by attacking shooters, lowering defense - Fire specialty - or delaying other creatures' actions - Storm specialty). Others, well, it always seems i don't get to act enough...
Which leads to the "problem" of Knowledge: i don't need 150 Mana Points. Knowledge seems to be once again the big loser of the attribute points.

Of course, i'm still in the learning phase with V, so feel free to contradict me, as long as you explain why, i'm eager to learn

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law558
law558


Adventuring Hero
posted May 26, 2006 10:17 AM

Quote:
i find it hard to be a non-Light, non-Destruction magic user... Light because you've got specialties which make you lose only half your initiative when casting some spells, or Destruction because it can really turn the tide of a battle (by attacking shooters, lowering defense - Fire specialty - or delaying other creatures' actions - Storm specialty). Others, well, it always seems i don't get to act enough...
Which leads to the "problem" of Knowledge: i don't need 150 Mana Points. Knowledge seems to be once again the big loser of the attribute points.

Of course, i'm still in the learning phase with V, so feel free to contradict me, as long as you explain why, i'm eager to learn


I agree I find it hard not to pick light and destruction. You can bless your army, then lay waste to your enemies.
But I still think knowledge is useful. I'll agree 150 mana isn't needed on a small map, but on a big map, with few magic wells and other mana restoring places, 150 will keep you casting spells for a lot longer, and for a magic based hero, that could spell the difference between a win or a lose (sorry bout the pun).

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Thanatos
Thanatos


Known Hero
posted May 26, 2006 11:02 AM
Edited by Thanatos at 11:03, 26 May 2006.

Quote:
i find it hard to be a non-Light, non-Destruction magic user... Light because you've got specialties which make you lose only half your initiative when casting some spells, or Destruction because it can really turn the tide of a battle (by attacking shooters, lowering defense - Fire specialty - or delaying other creatures' actions - Storm specialty). Others, well, it always seems i don't get to act enough...
Which leads to the "problem" of Knowledge: i don't need 150 Mana Points. Knowledge seems to be once again the big loser of the attribute points.

Of course, i'm still in the learning phase with V, so feel free to contradict me, as long as you explain why, i'm eager to learn


Many knowledge points can be very handy in long battles to cast expensive but powerful spells (spells with mass effects, Warlocks' ability to make destruction spells 50% more damaging but cast them at double mana cost, etc.)

I agree that the difference between 15 and 30 knowledge will probably be negligible but the difference between 5 and 10 can be huge if you have to fight often.

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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted May 26, 2006 11:53 AM

Well, that's the point, i have NEVER played long battles... and since the initiative of my hero is somewhat low, he doesn't act that often. That's why i think that Light is good (because you can reduce the initiative it takes) or Destruction (because it's very effective, and even does something else than pure damage), but harder to use other kinds of magic.

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Wolfshanze
Wolfshanze

Tavern Dweller
posted May 26, 2006 03:28 PM

Something nobody has mentioned is the "SORCERY" special.  Obviously geared towards magic users, the Sorcery skill by nature increases the number of times your hero gets to use his special.

Initiative besides, a spellcaster with sorcery is going to be attacking a lot more often then a might hero (since sorcery is kinda pointless for a hero who's spells suck).

Any proper magic user worth his salt should have Sorcery, which means he can cast more spells in combat, more often then without.  Yet, it's a mostly useless skill to a Knight for example, because you only get the bonus for casting spells.

I think having a strong spellcaster who can summon Phoenixes, Raise the Dead, and cause massive damage with spells, is better then a knight hero, even if his troops are stronger... what's better on the battlefield?  A summoned Phoenix from a magic user, or a hugely overpowered stack of a Knight's Paladins that have been BLINDED by an enemy spell?
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Betruger
Betruger


Known Hero
empowered mind
posted May 26, 2006 03:37 PM

Well being skilled in dark magic (master of curses for example) you also spend only half of the initiative to cast 'slow' or 'decay' or whatever.

And the bigger the battle, the less effective are spells doing direct damage, I think that's pretty obvious.

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Wolfshanze
Wolfshanze

Tavern Dweller
posted May 26, 2006 03:55 PM

That's a good point... there's lots of way a good magic user can be doing something constantly, while a "might" character like a hero is still stuck doing wussy stuff at less frequent intervals.

I've also found that as a strong magic user, what you do changes as the battles increase in size and difficulty... early in a scenario against weaker opponents, your direct damage spells will win the day... as you level up and face stronger, bigger armies, you tend to shift to more summoning/cloning/resurecting type spells (animate dead same as resurect).

Bottom line, I'd love a strong magic user over a strong might user any day.
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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted May 26, 2006 04:12 PM

well, in my experience, EVEN with Sorcery, you don't act that often with a Magic user. Don't forget that a Might hero does not need to act often to be efficient, his stats and skills/abilities are always on.
And when the battles are BIG, i find that Magic tends to have a lower impact. Once again, i'm talking about my own experience here, and i am not saying i am right and you guys wrong, only sharing my feeling =)

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rpgguy
rpgguy


Adventuring Hero
Scholar
posted May 26, 2006 04:48 PM

knowledge skill is important - for each 1 point you gain 10 mana and regenerate 1 mana faster and with the appropriate skill 2 mana each turn.

some spells with empower cost up to 16 mana each! and what about the summon creature spell? i once used 150 mana while walking outside to summon 150 creatures. i would like to see a hero with 2 knowledge points do that!

destructive magic gets less usefull when considering large armies but still the destructive magic abilities still keep it very usefull.
for example if you have master of storms and you fight 1 group of 1000 master hunters and you only have a small pack of creatures your hero can cast a lightning bolt spell on them each turn until he kills them all without letting them do anything becuase of the stunt effect! ofcourse you will need alot of knowledge for that

a might hero may be much better than a magic one. take a wizard hero with all 4 magic skills and sorcery and comapre it to a knight hero with leadership,luck,offense,defence,counterstrike and war machines.
let say they got the same armies and all abilities.
for starters the knight has from luck and defense 30% magic resistance which will probably make the wizard spells usless.
besides the knights troops will deal about 4 times the damage that the wizard troops will deal and they will do it much often due to morale. (i am talking about a battle with thousands vs thousaunds)
there is no way the wizard will win this battle.
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Week Of The Rabbit
Triple Growth For All Creatures

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Khan
Khan


Hired Hero
Order in Chaos
posted May 26, 2006 05:12 PM

In all fairness I think that the strongest heroes are the ones with a mix of Might and Magic (much as the name of the game implies) I think in rpgguy's example above that if the Wizard had changed slightly to include a Morale and Offense instead of 4 magic skills that the mix of spells with this would turn the battle the other way and that the mixer hero would wipe the floor. Especially if you give him mass haste and such.

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Thanatos
Thanatos


Known Hero
posted May 26, 2006 05:40 PM

Quote:
knowledge skill is important - for each 1 point you gain 10 mana and regenerate 1 mana faster and with the appropriate skill 2 mana each turn.

some spells with empower cost up to 16 mana each! and what about the summon creature spell? i once used 150 mana while walking outside to summon 150 creatures. i would like to see a hero with 2 knowledge points do that!

destructive magic gets less usefull when considering large armies but still the destructive magic abilities still keep it very usefull.
for example if you have master of storms and you fight 1 group of 1000 master hunters and you only have a small pack of creatures your hero can cast a lightning bolt spell on them each turn until he kills them all without letting them do anything becuase of the stunt effect! ofcourse you will need alot of knowledge for that

a might hero may be much better than a magic one. take a wizard hero with all 4 magic skills and sorcery and comapre it to a knight hero with leadership,luck,offense,defence,counterstrike and war machines.
let say they got the same armies and all abilities.
for starters the knight has from luck and defense 30% magic resistance which will probably make the wizard spells usless.
besides the knights troops will deal about 4 times the damage that the wizard troops will deal and they will do it much often due to morale. (i am talking about a battle with thousands vs thousaunds)
there is no way the wizard will win this battle.


You forgot about about the Artificer skill of the Wizard... if he gives all of his creatures a good artifact on Expert level (I'm just going to assume that he has Ultimate or at least Expert Artificer since battles of thousands vs. thousands usually only occur between high level heroes) he can make his creatures a lot better... couple this with spells like Mass Righteous Might, Mass Endurance and/ or Mass Haste on expert level and I think the wizards' army will be around equal, if not stronger than the Knights' army. Add to this that the Wizard will be able to make more use of his own turn because he has more powerful spells and much deeper reserves of mana and I think the odds are pretty even.

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law558
law558


Adventuring Hero
posted May 26, 2006 06:40 PM

Looks like Wizards are winning so far, though I'll agree with Khan. That a mix of both can make the best hero.

Anyone else think warriors are best?

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