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| Thread: Wizards or Warriors? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted May 26, 2006 07:51 PM |
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sorry to keep getting back at it, but... I think, ultimately, we do NOT share the same experience here. You're talking about long-lasting fights with thousands of creatures... Well, i have seen thousands only so many times, and it was skellies (and upgrade) or maybe Archers, but that's it. My games don't last long enough (or long enough without major fights, at least), to accumulate so many creatures (and i like it better that way). Which means that your view on Might/Magic should also take into account the kind of wars you're waging.
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rpgguy
Adventuring Hero
Scholar
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posted May 26, 2006 08:50 PM |
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Edited by rpgguy at 20:53, 26 May 2006.
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i didnt say my opinion was that might hero is better than magic one. i also belive that the best hero is a mix of those.
there are to many variables to take into - like size of army, types of units, artifacts worn by heroes.
what does a super wizard hero worth if on the first turn my 1000 imps steal 250 mana out the wizard leaving him with 0? (the 30 knowledge starting to look good eh?)
anyway that specific situation cleary shows that a might hero is better for the job.
the other case (with the wizard hurling lightning bols on a 1000 creatures while you have only 1) is an opposite example of a magic hero that is better for the job.
to sum it up: there is no better category- might or magic. thats the whole point! it all depends on the situation.
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Week Of The Rabbit
Triple Growth For All Creatures
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kinslayer
Sometimes death seems better-
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posted May 27, 2006 01:20 PM |
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thingh aren't like in h3, when a might hero could find orb of inhibition or rencanter's cloak(or something) to make a caster almost useless. so now both clasess(might&caster)have equal chanses to victory, even if armyes are very big. I refuze to beleve that an empowered meteor shower 1000 dmg inuseless ia a big battle. amd mass bless if very good also, thats why a belive that things are quite equal 
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Betruger
Known Hero
empowered mind
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posted May 28, 2006 02:23 AM |
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For me the main difference between magic & might heroes are not skills, but stats!
Every hero can learn all 4 schools of magic, but might hero will have higher attack/defence, while magic users have more mana/spellpower.
And I still think that might heroes are sooo much better, they don't need to have a lot of mana since battles even big battles don't last too long and the most useful spells are pretty cheap, spellpower is also not that useful, since it only determines the duration of beneficial spells.
The attack/defence stats are what makes the difference. For every 1 attack point more than your opponent your critters will do 5% more dmg.
Oh and I'm talking about battles that may occur during first weeks of 2nd month more or less since that's the most probable time for them to happen in multiplayer.
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Plexus22
Known Hero
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posted May 28, 2006 03:15 AM |
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I think this discussion has a lot to do with the length of a game. Just like in H3 it seems that magic heroes start out stronger because of their much more effective use of magic wich obviously is very effective against smaller random creature stacks. But I cant help but believe that armies of thousands vs thousands where the might heroes units are individually much stronger than the magic heroes (and in magic heroes im not talking about necessarily just Academy heroes) that most of the time the might hero will have the edge.
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JustAFan
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 28, 2006 07:24 PM |
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LMS or how the nick was I totally disagree. Initiative problem? Here you are:
Academy hero on expert artifacter and good hero level can forge an +30% initiative artifact. Problem solved. Hero instead of dealing 120 dmg deals 600dmg to 5 stacks of creatures with meteor shower. I don`t even want to speak about the Dungen Hero`s Advanced Implosion which reaches some crazy 1.*k
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JustAFan
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 28, 2006 07:34 PM |
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Agree with Plexus at the end Strenght hero are always stronger - same for warcraft (especially DotA)
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law558
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 05, 2006 11:09 AM |
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Edited by law558 at 11:10, 05 Jun 2006.
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I think wizards have a huge advantage, as a few spells are way overpowered.
Phantom forces-Not only do the phantoms have a 50% chance that your units will miss, but the enemy hero can create new phantom force from other phantom forces. So the hero can clone his strongest unit again and again, until his army has won.
Raise Dead- Only useful for the undead. A master of summoning magic would be able to raise his troops time after time, his army never taking any loses.
Summon creatures- Imagine the picture. You've retreated to your castle, fleeing a stronger hero. You'll be attacked tomorrow. You've recruited your troops from the castle, quietly confident that you'll win the battle now, But wait the battle started, and shock horror your enemy summoned all his troops from a far away castle, and walks all over you.
I think summon creatures is too powerful, when a hero can summoned a huge army, when he's right in the centre of enemy territory.
Anyone think I'm wrong, please present your case, or can anyone think of anymore overpowered spells that give wizards a huge advantage?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 05, 2006 11:54 AM |
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Omg guys the absolutely BEST start goes for inferno and the hero with the fireball shooting ballista. On level 4, assuming you've taken ballista and improved the warmachines to expert, it deals the damage equal to the fireball of 10 PITLORDS. Of course, it's area damage. If you want a cheap and powerful hero at startup, inferno is the best choice.
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neoexdeath
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 05, 2006 12:09 PM |
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Quote:
Phantom forces-Not only do the phantoms have a 50% chance that your units will miss, but the enemy hero can create new phantom force from other phantom forces. So the hero can clone his strongest unit again and again, until his army has won.
Any AOE attack or spell can counter phantom forces and damage the unit at the same time (lich's death cloud, fireball spell, meteor shower etc.)
Quote:
Summon creatures- Imagine the picture. You've retreated to your castle, fleeing a stronger hero. You'll be attacked tomorrow. You've recruited your troops from the castle, quietly confident that you'll win the battle now, But wait the battle started, and shock horror your enemy summoned all his troops from a far away castle, and walks all over you.
I think summon creatures is too powerful, when a hero can summoned a huge army, when he's right in the centre of enemy territory.
Summoning a large army requires a lot of mana. By casting summon creatures you gain some might but lose some magic
Raise dead is indeed a very powerful spell when playing as necro, especially with expert summoning magic, master of life and expert sorcery 
Quote:
If you want a cheap and powerful hero at startup, inferno is the best choice
Another good starting hero IMO is Kaspar (Necropolis). He starts with War machines and first aid tent, which translates to 3 free resurrection (or raise dead) spells each battle. His speciality boosts the number of resurrected units even more.
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law558
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 05, 2006 01:00 PM |
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Edited by law558 at 13:03, 05 Jun 2006.
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Quote:
Any AOE attack or spell can counter phantom forces and damage the unit at the same time (lich's death cloud, fireball spell, meteor shower etc.)Quote:
I don't know if this was a hero skill or luck or something, but when I was fighting an enemy hero with phantom force, alot of them resisted my area damaging spells.
Quote:
Summoning a large army requires a lot of mana. By casting summon creatures you gain some might but lose some magic
I was talking about wizard heroes, so I'd assume they'd have enough knowlegde to summon extra troops and still have some mana left for battle. Plus there are many ways to gain mana in battle e.g Consume corpe or spirit link.
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Fuzzier
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 05, 2006 01:15 PM |
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I do not agree,because for example Knight has abilities like Retribution, which combined with Leadership have devastating effect.I won't even mention Ranger's nature's luck.Warrior is useful because of bonuses he gives to his troops.Mages deal great ammount of damage but their initiative is low.
I must point out that most Ranger does not even have the potential to learn Nature's Luck (they doesn't meet the requirement of Nature's Luck initially).
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neoexdeath
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 05, 2006 01:53 PM |
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Quote:
I don't know if this was a hero skill or luck or something, but when I was fighting an enemy hero with phantom force, alot of them resisted my area damaging spells.
That's strange. They should have incorporeal ability (like ghosts/specters) so magical attacks should always hit  If they don't then this is probably a bug.
Physical attacks have 50 % chance to miss (more with soldier's luck skill).
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted June 05, 2006 01:57 PM |
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As you said, maybe it was the Hero's magic resistance (through skills and/or artifacts).
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If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 05, 2006 03:35 PM |
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if so, soldier's luck + mirror image + resistance is surely damn powerful. That takes time to gather, tho. That's why I still prefer heroes stronger at the beginning - better start - more creatures in mid game - possible quick victory or catching important mines/artifacts faster so in the end you're more powerful anyway.
I wish haven had the fireball ballista guy. : (
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SuicidalNecro
Hired Hero
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posted June 05, 2006 06:09 PM |
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I'm leaning more towards magic. My best and fastest games were with average to excellent magic heroes. Early start, early attack on enemies, and when I get freeze or stun coupled with area effect spells, enemies never get a chance to move. And I can easily keep summoning new troops because mana is the least of my problems, something I was unable to do often with atk/def heroes. Why spend the time to amass thousands of troops when you can remove the opposition within a few months?
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SuicidalNecro
Hired Hero
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posted June 05, 2006 09:54 PM |
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Warlock's Luck is broken and on the buglist. Once it's fixed, I'll be very happy. Sylvan/Inferno hero with ultimate would still have no chance.
And do get extra knowledge if you're up against inferno heroes. That extra mana regened during fight will be critical because of those pesky imps.
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rpgguy
Adventuring Hero
Scholar
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posted June 06, 2006 12:52 AM |
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i want to see your perfect mage with his uber spells defeat an army with 2k imps that will drain all of his mana on the start of the battle!
and dont say that you would have used artifacts of +iniative to gain the advantage becuase the artificer ability falls in the cathegory of might and not magic - thats right its an army booster ability not a magic ability! the only magic abilities are summoning,dark,light,destruction,sorcery,enlightment and the warlocks irresistable magic.
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Week Of The Rabbit
Triple Growth For All Creatures
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SuicidalNecro
Hired Hero
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posted June 06, 2006 01:11 AM |
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Why do the Sylvan get Mana Feed on one of their units, and not dungeon? Blah! Hate legion of damned ...err Demons. Imps/Familiars are seriously overpowered. And their gated counterpart also destroys/steals mana 
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law558
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 08, 2006 10:33 AM |
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Quote:
Why do the Sylvan get Mana Feed on one of their units, and not dungeon? Blah! Hate legion of damned ...err Demons. Imps/Familiars are seriously overpowered. And their gated counterpart also destroys/steals mana
I agree imps/familars are way overpowered against wizard heroes. On the other hand, every wizard hero should have a back up skill like consume corspe or spirit link to regain his/her mana (though obviously only demon and undead heroes can have these skills).
(Do any other heroes types have mana gaining skills)
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