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| Thread: War, is it needed? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted June 03, 2006 04:16 AM |
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Bush is good, but some of his desision making is not.
He is risking lives, and many have died because of his selfigh ways in trying t ofind some idiot who is hiding in a cave somewhere.
Whats the point of that.
Thats a waste of man power, and life.
People have died trying to find this Osama Bin Maggot who is supposedly hiding in some cave, and as of yet we still havent been able to find Osama.
Waste of time if you ask me, I think we should wait, take the men out of their, but leave a few there, then when he may come out attack and capture him, and maybe execute him for the millions of lives that he has affected and hurt.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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LegendMaker
Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
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posted June 03, 2006 04:16 PM |
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Follow the Blind
Nazis were good guys and nice men, too.
They only followed orders, after all. And consistently, to boot. So let's be fair : they were just puppets...
Don't you miss nazis, Consis ? 
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okiesolidarity
Known Hero
right brain/left brain wizard
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posted June 03, 2006 05:33 PM |
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Quote:
Nazis were good guys and nice men, too.
They only followed orders, after all. And consistently, to boot. So let's be fair : they were just puppets...
Don't you miss nazis, Consis ?
I haven't lived through an enormous depression. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have, either. I am in no way justifying the actions of the Nazi party, but psychos like hitler don't get that much attention unless things are really bad.
The reparations from WW1 left Germany in a state of economic depression worse than any western country had/has experienced in modern history. You think that Russia had it bad for a while? It was nothing compared to the state that Germany was in after WW1.
Given the options of starving to death or jumping on the bandwagon of some crazed dictator who is, to the best of your knowledge, revitalizing the nation, I would probably be greedy and choose to live, too. Let's not forget that a great deal of nazis had no idea what was going in regards to the mass genocide. They were just wrapped up in a nationalist movement that gave them a steady income again and put food on their tables.
Comparing a group of people to a single person is a little unfair as well, as history has shown us while a person may be smart, people are often very stupid. I am not saying that George W. is a saint. I didn't vote for him; I think he's a terrible public speaker, and a horrible indication that the (arguably) plurality of the american people prefer an "average joe" to a capable leader for their president. I am just tired of this comparison of him to Hitler, as it is largely the administration that he works for that is responsible for the greater part of the atrociites that have taken place over the past 6 years of his administration. I think the worst thing to do in handling this sort of situation is dehumanizing/demonizing him, because it doesn't really accomplish anything, and just makes him, for better or worse, a figurehead of something that reaches much further than just him.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted June 03, 2006 06:02 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 18:49, 03 Jun 2006.
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TNT_Addict
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Beautiful Liar
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posted June 03, 2006 07:05 PM |
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LegendMaker
Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
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posted June 03, 2006 07:59 PM |
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If you ignore it long enough, it will cease to exist eventually. Or maybe NOT !
Okie-Dokie, your reply would have made perfect sense IF :
 my previous post had finished by <<Don't you miss nazis, Okie ?>> and not <<Consis>>
Just this once, I allowed him the thrill of seeing me actually type his name, precisely to avoid anyone else assuming I was talking to them. Yet, you jumped headfirst and answered a question I only asked to him... 
I actually implied GWB and the nazis were just alike.
I didn't. I'm sure or at least optimistic enough to hope that you're intellectually honest enough to understand the true meaning of my statement.
This other side threadwas still active.
Any kind of activity stopped on it suddenly after Consis (amongst others) had failed to counter the so-called <<conspiracy theorists>>'s arguments. My last post on that thread remains reply-less to this day.
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okiesolidarity
Known Hero
right brain/left brain wizard
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posted June 03, 2006 11:10 PM |
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Quote:
Okie-Dokie, your reply would have made perfect sense IF :
my previous post had finished by <<Don't you miss nazis, Okie ?>> and not <<Consis>>
Just this once, I allowed him the thrill of seeing me actually type his name, precisely to avoid anyone else assuming I was talking to them. Yet, you jumped headfirst and answered a question I only asked to him...
Excuse me, but I thought this was a forum, not a one-on-one conversation between you and Consis. If you really intended for no one to respond to your statement, whether it be through a written response, or just to read it and react to themselves, I would assume you would write a message to him directly, as opposed to posting it in this thread for everyone else to see.
Quote:
I actually implied GWB and the nazis were just alike.
I didn't. I'm sure or at least optimistic enough to hope that you're intellectually honest enough to understand the true meaning of my statement.
I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that you had made at least some allusion to a comparison, given the post I made immediately before Consis' in which I called GWB a puppet. Consis agreed with my statement, then you called nazis puppets. I don't think it's really that far of a stretch to assume that there was some sort of implication of a similarity between GWB and nazis, unless you just like inserting talks about nazis in threads. If that is the case, I apologize.
edit sorry, i forgot that william made a comment between Consis' and yours
Quote:
This other side threadwas still active.
Any kind of activity stopped on it suddenly after Consis (amongst others) had failed to counter the so-called <<conspiracy theorists>>'s arguments. My last post on that thread remains reply-less to this day.
...ok I don't really see what my post had to do with that thread (all I saw of any relevance to your past few statements was a claim made by you that Consis doesn't think too highly of you, and you two maybe have some sort of feud...ok...i get it, you don't think too highly of him).
Anyway, I don't like openning that can of worms. I read the thread. I had seen the video before, and engaged in many an annoying argument concerning its validity prior to joining this forum, otherwise I may have responded to it (unless only Consis is supposed to do that).
Back on topic, I still think war is pretty bad. Wouldn't you agree, Leggie? (if anyone else responds to this post I will try to flame you so bad  ).
In all honesty, though...nothing bad on you, leggie...just trying to explain myself.
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M4Carbine
Hired Hero
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posted June 05, 2006 09:23 AM |
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War is just a way that powerful people can display their power.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted June 05, 2006 11:09 AM |
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War solves nothing except for Destruction, and deaths.
Whats the point in risking innocent lives, quite frankly there isnt one.
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted June 05, 2006 12:51 PM |
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Well as long as it's not your own life you're risking it's ok.
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John says to live above hell.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted June 05, 2006 12:53 PM |
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yep thats true, and your families life aswell, you cant risk their lives either can you?
I say no.
War isnt needed!!!
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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LegendMaker
Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
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posted June 05, 2006 04:10 PM |
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This means WAR / Cause for CONFLICT
What is <<needed>> exactly, foo ?
It doesn't exist.
What does exist that William (among others) confused with <<needed>> exactly, foo ?
Needed FOR.
What is the difference between <<needed>> and <<needed FOR>> exactly, foo ?
Needed in itself doesn't exist. Needed FOR does exist.
You need air FOR your immediate survival. You don't need it period.
What is <<war>> exactly, foo ?
It's a fight, ie a conflict.
What is <<a Conflict>> exactly, foo ?
A wants C.
B stands in the way.
A and B are now in Conflict.
What does A need Conflict FOR exactly, foo ?
A doesn't need the Conflict itself. A needs to overcome the Conflict that B caused by standing in the way FOR A's object of desire : C. Of course, A would have prefered to get C without Conflict. But since B stood in the way, Conflict or Abandon were the only two options. And A really wants C.
This means WAR.
What does B need Conflict FOR exactly, foo ?
B doesn't need the Conflict itself. The reasons why B stands in the way may vary a lot, in fact. Maybe B also wants C. Maybe B just happens to be there, in the middle of A's way to C. Maybe B is evil. Maybe B hates A or even has an evil masterplan to take the world by storm.
It doesn't really matter. Remember the previous paragraph : it's WAR already.
On the light of these basic facts, what do <<we>> (the people) <<need>> War for, exactly, foo ?
We, the people, aren't A, it's the government of the country that declares war, normally. (ex : Bush's administration)
We, the people, aren't B, it's the government of the opposing country, normally. (ex : Sadam Hussein)
We, the people, aren't C either, it's whatever the government of the country that declares war wants, normally. (ex : a directly controled source of oil, a strategic foothold in the middle east, a boost to the american economy in general and the weapons industry in particular, a publicized demonstration of US military strenght...)
We the people usually don't need War for anything. It's our rulers who start the wars in almost any case. Civilians aren't even a part of War. They are just there, in the way.
__________________
-The Legendary foo 
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LM    
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okiesolidarity
Known Hero
right brain/left brain wizard
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posted June 05, 2006 05:20 PM |
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couldn't say it better, leggie...BB code at its best.
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m4carbine
Hired Hero
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posted June 06, 2006 06:48 AM |
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In the eyes of politicans the soldiers that go to war, are obiously not actual people, but expendable units that can be easily replaced.
I'm sure they won't go on the battlefields, becuase they think the life of others are somehow cheaper than theirs.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted June 06, 2006 01:58 PM |
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Quote:
B stands in the way.
So B is the one who stands in the way?, then..
Quote:
We, the people, aren't B, it's the government of the opposing country, normally. (ex : Sadam Hussein)
You say were AREN'T B (the ones who stand in the way)
Quote:
We the people usually don't need War for anything. It's our rulers who start the wars in almost any case. Civilians aren't even a part of War. They are just there, in the way.
Yet you say we do stand in the way.
Doesn't that make us B?  I get what you're trying to say though.
I say that the civilians are the tools used by A and B, to achieve C or D (possible goal of B).
Quote:
We, the people, aren't A, it's the government of the country that declares war, normally. (ex : Bush's administration_
Too true. So much for democracy.
There's another thing that doesn't exist. Rule by all, true democracy is actually what we think of as communism.
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John says to live above hell.
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted June 07, 2006 02:05 PM |
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Quote:
here's another thing that doesn't exist. Rule by all, true democracy is actually what we think of as communism.
What do you mean by that? A government/parlament is elected because we've got a representative democracy. In a true democracy everyone is part of the "parlament" and has a vote when decisions are to be made. Do you actually think that this is the same as communism since a truly communist country has no government? I think there is a big difference: History proves that true communism is an utopia; the period of transition never ends and the leaders become dictators; the utopia was never achieved to any degree at all.
Our modern democracy is at least an attempt on true democracy with some practical changes. It's got flaws, yes, but it is by far the best governing form.
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted June 10, 2006 08:57 AM |
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For those of you that dont wanna die in a war and lets say your country starts a draft... do the american thing .. become a draft dodger maybe one day you will be president
I still say despite the arguements war is a needed and valueable tool for the human race. If we dont kill each other who the hell will? The proper wars should be fought with the right people on the front lines instead of being confused behind a desk why everybody hates him/her.
As for the democracy vrs communism thing yes a properly applied communist country is a utopia.. but when have beaucracies never been corrupted? Socialism is as close to a utopian society we are gonna get. Democracy is a farce atleast what it stands for in todays world and freedom is a word in a dictionary that the goverment never looked up the definition on.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted June 10, 2006 09:58 AM |
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And the White Unicorn, that they called freedom
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John says to live above hell.
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted June 10, 2006 11:09 AM |
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Edited by Ecoris at 11:10, 10 Jun 2006.
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Noone claimed democracy is perfect. But can you name a (realistic) government form which gives its citizens more rights and more freedom
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted June 10, 2006 03:20 PM |
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Mad_Unicorn,
Both I and terje_the_mad_wizard have discussed what your post talks about. Perhaps we three could have a very constructive and thoughtful debate in another thread. I would enjoy that very much. You have some very interesting things to say about democracy, communism, and socialism.
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