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| Thread: For your cheating pleasure! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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syrval
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 04, 2006 11:39 PM |
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...I can understand a little the problems with cheating online, but I guess there will always be this sort of person in the world who spoils the experience for others. I guess the solution is to permanently disable / allow the disabling of cheating in multiplayer.
....
Correct me if i am wrong, but in my opinion, there wouldnīt be cheating in multiplayer, if there wouldnīt exist cheats in singleplayer.
And itīs prolly correct, everybody can do on singleplayer whatever he wants. But in my eyes, it is a short step from cheating vs the AI and using cheats in multiplayer. If u canīt beat the AI, how will u ever beat a human player then?
And the reason, why they implement "Easy" or "Normal" settings in such games is, to make it possible for every kind of player to reach the end of the campaigns / maps. So no Cheats needed for that....
I don't mean to be mean and I hate to inform you, but...
Error 243: Logical Fallacies - Mistaken Causaulity
Also called the post hoc fallacy from the latin post hoc, ergo propter
hoc which means "after this, therefore, because of this." Here's how
it applies to the above statement:
"...[after this]there would be cheating in multiplayer,
[because of this] if there would exist cheats in
singleplayer.
It's okay you just made a mistake in argument. We all do once in our
lives. Also, I hate to inform you that there is no easy mode in the
game though I'm told it will come in the patch. Along with the
editor. Which is why I want to see cheats. They put cheats in
development versions for debuging. If there is an editor, I'd just
like to be able to debug my maps.
If they put in a debug mode they could give us "cheats" which are in
reality debug commands (which of course they put in) then all they'd
need to do is to, as was suggested in Gnoll_Mage's post is dissallow
debug mode in multiplayer. Which would also make it a pain to test
user made Multiplayer maps, but if it makes you sleep better at night
I'm for a compromise.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 04, 2006 11:55 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 23:56, 04 Jun 2006.
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Would u mind posting in a manner everybody is able to understand what u r talking about?
I didnīt understand half of it...especially the first part.
And yes, i know the game doesnīt have Easy mode, but i meant it in general..not only refered to Heroes 5, coz i dislike cheating in every multiplayer game...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted June 05, 2006 12:02 AM |
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And yes, i know the game doesnīt have Easy mode, but i meant it in general..not only refered to Heroes 5, coz i dislike cheating in every multiplayer game...
well, we are talking about H5 and SP...
Besides, i'm sorry, but what you said is wrong, about SP cheats leading to MP cheats. Generally, in MP, players use EXPLOITS, not cheats, because cheats are disabled. Here it seems that cheats are made using the console, and so that MP exploits could follow the same line. SO it is useful to learn how they work, how to detect them, and how to block them, and for that, knowing as much as we can is the key.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 05, 2006 12:14 AM |
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BS, once a cheater always a cheater.
I seen players who found out how to cheat & then use them.
I dont usually disagree with Valeiriy but i disagree with him on here.
I understand where yall are getting at.
About showing players what the cheats look like when used & to help beat a game thats beatable in a single player game.
Now they know, maybe not all but there will be some that will want to move up the tournament ladder & try to cheat.
Eventually some cheater is going to find cheats that players wont be able to pick up as easily.
Human behavior man, you cant tell me 100% of everyone will just use them for SP.
Your wrong dude & this thread is wrong to be posted here.
It should be posted in some other board.
Once Val makes up his mind, you cant change it.
He dont understand because he dont play in the tournaments, he does not see cheaters getting banned or getting away with it.
it happens & it's there.
This thread just opens some eyes to find others or to try it.
Especially the young minds who like to take the easy way out.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 05, 2006 12:41 AM |
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...well, we are talking about H5 and SP...
How about u read ALL posts of a thread, and not just some of them?
Here is quote of Guldans post on page 1, after which i made my first statement:
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...It is everyone's own resposibility to cheat or not, if you do not like it, quit the mp game and go play single player,...
My english that bad, or do u read the same as me here?
Quote:
Besides, i'm sorry, but what you said is wrong, about SP cheats leading to MP cheats. Generally, in MP, players use EXPLOITS, not cheats, because cheats are disabled.
Perhaps we (or just me...) have a misunderstanding in general here. When i look in the dictionary to find all meanings of the word CHEAT, i donīt find any positive one. Cheating is not only to enter a code during the game with Tab. This may be the most simple method of course. Next step is file and map editing. An this was used many times in H3 online games. Itīs really annoying if u look up some saves of H3 games, and then realize, u fight a cons which has 5 times 15 griffins (??) as guards, and gives 5 angels (??) as reward. Or if u see your opponent fought a full utopia with only 1 angel (??). You only can check that by watching every save. Not sure what possibilites they will have in H5, but i guess it is the same with the computer viruses. The programmers of those are always 1 step ahead of the protectors....sad but true...
Play with the people you know, and u should be safe....guess will stick to that for H5 also...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted June 05, 2006 01:04 AM |
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Edited by Gus at 01:05, 05 Jun 2006.
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The problem you and Aculias have is that you're trying to convince me that cheating in MP is bad... but... I know that. I'm 100% with you here. Cheating in MP sucks. I have never done it nor will i ever do it.
However (you knew that was coming), the "cheater a day cheater always"-remark is completely stupid, sorry, no offence to you Aculias, only to this statement. Cheating in SP is perfectly ok. For a lot of reasons, from debugging to not having the time/skill to play correctly, and including being a spoiled child with no patience. But in SP, nobody cares. In MP that's a completely different story, and as i've said before, i condemn it, have never done it, and would happily contribute to blowing up the reputation of a cheater in a community.
Still, the point remains that the most widely known cheats are, the more people are aware of what to expect from potential cheaters (thus enabling detecting MP cheaters more easily), and the more some guys can work on applications/programs to check whether there are cheats being used.
EDIT: for your first remark of me not reading... When you're talking about an Easy mode, it is most likely about SP play. Hence my remark. Easy mode in MP makes little sense =)
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 05, 2006 01:13 AM |
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Easy Mode makes just as much sense as cheating  .
I dont care if yall cheat in sp or not.
All I am saying is this can persuade other TOURNAMENT players to try them out.
Some of the honest fair players might meet up with them.
When i say once a cheater always a cheater.
Yall cheat yourself, yall can lie to us & we may never know but yall cant lie to yourselves.
I am glad & we all know were on the same page about MP cheating.
What about convincing actual cheaters when they read this & decide to cheat in TOH or other tournaments?
In my time playing in toh I ran into many kinds of cheaters.
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syrval
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 05, 2006 01:46 AM |
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Edited by syrval at 01:48, 05 Jun 2006.
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Quote:
Would u mind posting in a manner everybody is able to understand what u r talking about?
I didnīt understand half of it...especially the first part.
And yes, i know the game doesnīt have Easy mode, but i meant it in general..not only refered to Heroes 5, coz i dislike cheating in every multiplayer game...
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be cryptic sometimes I forget to not be. You could call me Sphinx. What I was saying was that there was a simple error in your logic. And that error is known as a post hoc. You used a cause/result argument and the result isn't necessarly related to the cause.
That is to say, cheating in multiplayer is not necessarly caused by cheating in singleplayer. It's caused by the desire to grief. I would argue that the word cheating when used in multiplayer context is best replace with the word griefing, which all of us can relate to.
People have found other ways to grief us. For example, if someone who is a very advanced player says that he's a novice and plays with other novices just to smack them. When that happens, it's mean and it's just plain wrong. So I understand where you are coming from.
Would you agree with this reformat of your statement:
Quote:
Cheating in multiplayer most commonly arises when the cheater feels like he needs to be given an edge over other player or over the entire game. And this is commonly do to the fact he has not learned the game or is not practiced enough do to reliance on cheats in singleplayer but may also be due to other factors. Also it is important to note that not all single player cheaters play in multiplayer games using cheats and some do not cheat for the reason stated above but to stop cheaters in general from hurting other players I believe that the developers are justified in removing cheats from the game.
I assume that was what you meant to say in your post. Am I right?
Also what I was saying is I don't care how you implement them, but I would like to have console commands to test my maps when they come out with a map editor. I accually wouldn't mind running a debug version of the game in the map editor, but I really don't think that Nival will give me that kind of power.
In fact, I think some of the people here would make great testers. I'd love constructive critism from someone like yourself. It's important that a tester understands the nuance of game balance and it's also important that a tester trys everything within his power to break a game. That's the best way to debug. But then again, debugging isn't the same as playing.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 05, 2006 02:13 AM |
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Now i got your point(s).
Thx for that last post, liked it!
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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dk186
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 05, 2006 03:22 AM |
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yah i saw a guy typing power overwhelming on bnet (starcraft) that was pretty funny.
but cheating in single player will not necessarily make ppl cheat in multiplayer. probably as much as playing the game itself will.
and most people have cheated at least once in their life, if not in games, in real life. so don't talk like you never cheat and bring down the hammer of morality on others. and real life btw is more important. this is just a game.
and you can talk about this all you want, but people who want to cheat will cheat. people who don't will not. just keep it to yourself.
i wanted to see the cheats cuz i had to switch comp etc and couldn't get my profile moved and so on and had to start over. i didn't want to start again from the first campaign. and it makes ppl mad to see some people make rash comments about how they are so cool and cheating is for losers. to me, it sounds like those noobs on mp that always lose and complain others are cheating.
you can reply to this if you want, but i probably won't check back.
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Guldan
Adventuring Hero
Soon to be banned...........
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posted June 05, 2006 08:36 AM |
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Quote:
I am glad & we all know were on the same page about MP cheating.
What about convincing actual cheaters when they read this & decide to cheat in TOH or other tournaments?
In my time playing in toh I ran into many kinds of cheaters.
I think you can't, the hunger for power is too big, only a few can get true power by playing, the rest will not be so good, or be so good trough cheating, most of us will say "okay,i have fun in the game but not i am the best, fine by me" , but there will always be the ones that have no fun and will cheat. just for the stats.
I think the only thing the cheaters will get from this thread is a few new cheats they didn't knew And i also think we cant stop cheats, the programmes should ( with programs like punkbuster at AA and BF2)
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted June 05, 2006 01:02 PM |
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I think the only thing the cheaters will get from this thread is a few new cheats they didn't knew And i also think we cant stop cheats, the programmes should ( with programs like punkbuster at AA and BF2)
Cheaters don't need you to know cheats...
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If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
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Guldan
Adventuring Hero
Soon to be banned...........
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posted June 05, 2006 01:24 PM |
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Guess youre name is right: "not so bright"
What i meant is that this thread isn't gonna change anything about cheating or not cheating in sp or mp, nad ofcourse cheaters do not need to know me for cheats, neither do they need to know you or anyone else, your remark was in my eyes not really relevant to the subject.
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted June 05, 2006 01:39 PM |
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Guess youre name is right: "not so bright"
you'd be nice to behave, respect the forum rules, and apologize for this uncalled for personal attack.
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What i meant is that this thread isn't gonna change anything about cheating or not cheating in sp or mp
but that's not what you SAID, and i commented on what you SAID.
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nad ofcourse cheaters do not need to know me for cheats, neither do they need to know you or anyone else
and i never pretended they needed anyone. you did.
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your remark was in my eyes not really relevant to the subject.
oh yeah, because your own post was relevant? it wasn't even in concordance to the forum rules.
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If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
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Guldan
Adventuring Hero
Soon to be banned...........
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posted June 05, 2006 02:19 PM |
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Quote:
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Guess youre name is right: "not so bright"
you'd be nice to behave, respect the forum rules, and apologize for this uncalled for personal attack.
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What i meant is that this thread isn't gonna change anything about cheating or not cheating in sp or mp
but that's not what you SAID, and i commented on what you SAID.
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nad ofcourse cheaters do not need to know me for cheats, neither do they need to know you or anyone else
and i never pretended they needed anyone. you did.
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your remark was in my eyes not really relevant to the subject.
oh yeah, because your own post was relevant? it wasn't even in concordance to the forum rules.
You are calling your self "not so bright", that gives me the right to call you the same way, if you do not like it then do not call yourself like that (so no apoligize), second read better then, you didn't comment on what i said, cause i didn't mean that anyone needed me, while you said it that way, cause when you say: "cheaters don't need you to know cheats" it really sounds that way. And then you misunderstood what i said first. About the relevant thing you are also uncorrect, the half of my post was for explenation, the other half for correction of you and to clear the thread of misunderstandings, so that is 100% relevant.
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted June 05, 2006 02:26 PM |
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ok, i'm dropping the subject so as to not clutter the thread, and contacting an admin.
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If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
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Guldan
Adventuring Hero
Soon to be banned...........
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posted June 05, 2006 05:41 PM |
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With me neither, not sure whats wrong, is it giving the null value?
It says that with me, hope its just a bug or something.
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted June 05, 2006 06:56 PM |
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Warning to Guldan issued, The next provocation will end up in penalties. I will clean up this thread and will give it a try again...
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Guldan
Adventuring Hero
Soon to be banned...........
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posted June 05, 2006 07:22 PM |
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Edited by Guldan at 19:23, 05 Jun 2006.
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Hope you read my hcm, cause this is bs.
My post:
"I think the only thing the cheaters will get from this thread is a few new cheats they didn't knew And i also think we cant stop cheats, the programmes should ( with programs like punkbuster at AA and BF2)"
Then his post:
"Cheaters don't need you to know cheats... "
Which one is provoking now?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 05, 2006 10:34 PM |
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And because there is no hall of fame, cheating is even more pointless..
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