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Shaowmoon
Tavern Dweller
The one and only
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posted November 24, 2001 04:45 AM |
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Hi again you guys this is my opinon of the NEW HOMM4 from what Ive seen so far as far as graphics is conerned and I think they are pretty damm good. As for the ideas for some of how some of the creatures ended up looking well I have to agree with you... some are shockers, but the improved graphics ALMOST makes up for it I say.
As for this thing about HOMM2 those crappy graphics dont compare with HOMM4 although the guys that came up with the designs were better than whoever did some of these ones.
As for the vampire I havent seen it yet but I didn't like either of the vamps from HOMM2 or 3. In HOMM2 it looked stupid in a tux but in HOMM3 it was just plain wierd if you ask me you guys.
Well that's my opinion anyway.
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Hydra's are GREAT
but
Dragons are BETTER!!
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted November 24, 2001 09:41 AM |
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Gerdash: I pretty much agree with you. I never bond in the same way with HOMMIII creatures the way I did with for example halflings, mages, boars, giants, sprites, elves, druids, peasants, crusaders, vampires, wolves, cyclopes, dwarves, phoenixes, unicorns, mummies, rouges, nomads, ghosts, genies, medusas, goblins, orc chieftains, ogres, war trolls, gargoyles, minotaur kings, griffins (when they were still cool), Minotaur Kings (well, the HOMMIII MK's looked awesome, I must admit), rocs, hydras and dragons
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 24, 2001 11:44 PM |
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Just stating my opinion: all in all the h3 creatures are cooler than h2.Of course there are exceptions, big time.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 25, 2001 11:34 PM |
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Skeletons are in. There are both pics with them in battle and "mini-icons" when they're part of an army.
What's missing perhaps:
Treefolk
Some really powerful undead creature which is not a dragon.
Pegasus
About heroes 2 vs. heroes 3. IMO heroes 3 suffers from smaller images on the battlefield, and a lot of un-inventive animations of things (like when a creature takes, damage or dies). The cartoonish creatures of heroes 2 were fun to look at, easy to identify with, and the special effects were very good.
When it comes to the Necropolis, the colour went out the window between heroes 2 and 3 and the necropolis became the gray town. In heores 4, most of the creatures in the town will have strong colouring again (just look at Imps, Devils, Venom Spawn, Ghosts and Vampires) so we see a new change of mood. Therefore what was appropriate in heroes 3 is no longer appropriate in heroes 4. Vampires and the others now have some colour again, and returning to the heroes 3 Vampire simply doesn't fit the tonw mood any more.
And I believe that humans have been wearing black coats and white shirts for a very long time, and long before "Dracula" had that clothing. People may associate it with later times, but that doesn't mean it was common long before that.
In contrasts with many others I believe Venom Spawn will be fine. The full-size model looks no good, but when the creature is shrunk down to battle-field size the defects in the model melts away just fine.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 26, 2001 12:16 AM |
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"About heroes 2 vs. heroes 3. IMO heroes 3 suffers from smaller images on the battlefield, and a lot of un-inventive animations of things (like when a creature takes, damage or dies). The cartoonish creatures of heroes 2 were fun to look at, easy to identify with, and the special effects were very good."
Uninventive? I don't think so...can you point out two creatures that have the same moves? I didn't think that either...except some ffwd or rwd steps from some of them they are "smooth criminals"...
"When it comes to the Necropolis, the colour went out the window between heroes 2 and 3 and the necropolis became the gray town. In heores 4, most of the creatures in the town will have strong colouring again (just look at Imps, Devils, Venom Spawn, Ghosts and Vampires) so we see a new change of mood. Therefore what was appropriate in heroes 3 is no longer appropriate in heroes 4. Vampires and the others now have some colour again, and returning to the heroes 3 Vampire simply doesn't fit the tonw mood any more."
Well, the color shouldn't have been there in the first place...I'm really not looking for cartoons or circus in the necropolis, so please save the colors for others...a necro with self-esteem doesn't wear clown-suits.
"And I believe that humans have been wearing black coats and white shirts for a very long time, and long before "Dracula" had that clothing. People may associate it with later times, but that doesn't mean it was common long before that."
It depends what you call a long time...200 years, but no more...and since this game is certainly not picturing years after Napoleon, you can see the inadvertence in your lines.
As about Dracula...maybe you should know that Dracula didn't wear suits at all...after all, do you know who was Dracula?Just as Dracula is not common with the suit, the suit is not common with the game, the vampire is not common with the later times and so on...catch my drift?
"In contrasts with many others I believe Venom Spawn will be fine. The full-size model looks no good, but when the creature is shrunk down to battle-field size the defects in the model melts away just fine."
I've never seen something to look bad at a size and good at another...have you? And is strange to defend the spawn, since you mention the "defects"...the whole it is a defect...not to speak about it's abilities as a necro...
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 26, 2001 12:58 AM |
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I was talking about creaures dying and taking damage. Overall creatures just fall down in a heap in heores 3. Taking damage is also very streamlined. The difference compared with heroes 2 is very big. Almost every creature does something special and inventive in heroes 2, either when dying or once when they're dead.
What do you mean the same move? When a creature dies in heroes 3 almost every creature in heroes 3 just sinks to the ground and lie dead. It's probably easier to say which doesn't. (Some of the necro units are exceptions, but I can't think of all that many of the others.)
Hit a Phoenix in heroes 2 and the whole bird recoils, in heroes 3 AB, there's not much happening. The same with the Roc and the Griffin.
Black suit and white shirt is a classic way to dress, this is as far away from a clown suit you can get. The black suit fits the Vampire very well. What makes the Vampire a bit different than most creatures is that vampires are commonly expected to act individually and not in armies of tens or thousands. Therefore, there's no correct battle dress, so it's better to use the individual dressing.
However, if you look at the characteristics of a Vampire like charming it's victims, you very quickly lean to the fact that the Vampire has some style. Also if the Vampire expects to lure victims close enough for its charm, it had better not look like a vagabond or even have a grim face. The intended victim will just put up resistance instead.
There are many other things which just doen't fit for Vampires. For instance they can't stand sunlight, so obviously they shouldn't be able to move with normal armies in daylight.
I would be surprised if 200 years is correct. Nobles, Merchants, well-off farmers, rabbies and many others have been wearing black clothing with white shirts for a very long time. The full cut of the suit may not be the same, but the colours are certainly the same.
You should remember that this is a fantasy game. Heroes 4 is not placed on Earth. The time span for when many of these creatures appeared are many centuries. I mean Titans and Medusa didn't exist at the same time as the Crusades and the time of the Knights, did they?
The Vampire should have clothing that fits it's style and way of life. That means clothes of a well-off noble or similar, not the clothes of a vagabond.
Yes, I've seen thing that things look better when they're shrunk and loses some of the detail. I've seen pics of the VS in the combat field and it looks Ok to me there. The model on the other hand doesn't look good at all.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 26, 2001 01:20 AM |
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"When a creature dies in heroes 3 almost every creature in heroes 3 just sinks to the ground and lie dead. It's probably easier to say which doesn't."
What would you expect from a creaturee to do when it dies instead of falling to the ground?
"I would be surprised if 200 years is correct. Nobles, Merchants, well-off farmers, rabbies and many others have been wearing black clothing with white shirts for a very long time. The full cut of the suit may not be the same, but the colours are certainly the same."
Yes, I assure you it is correct.Suits of clothes as you know it and as the vampire wears were invented in the second half of the 19th century, and that is a fact! This is not about colors, I'm sure greek gods wore black and white, but not shaped like this.
"You should remember that this is a fantasy game. Heroes 4 is not placed on Earth. The time span for when many of these creatures appeared are many centuries. I mean Titans and Medusa didn't exist at the same time as the Crusades and the time of the Knights, did they?"
If you say this is a fantasy game, then anything is possible? Is there a limit to the fantasy? Since creatures are mixed up, like your example with medusas and knights, how about introducing the combat helicopter?
-let me introduce you to the ultimate level4 flyer in the academy town, yes, it is the AH64 Apache.Laser targeting systems, infra-red seeking, Hellfire missiles,it will sure be an adversary for the famous black dragon, ha?
"The Vampire should have clothing that fits it's style and way of life. That means clothes of a well-off noble or similar, not the clothes of a vagabond."
In different times noble men had different images. This one doesn't work; simply too new.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 26, 2001 10:35 AM |
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How about falling to pieces like the Bone Dragon, or that look of astonishment when the Dwarf dies, or the part about the hair of the medusa turning into snakes? Overall, I'd be happy with some animated effect instead of just falling to the ground.
Since vampires were created as part of modern life society, what do you expect them to wear? Vampires were never intended as a mass unit in an army. They're infiltraitors, spies or whatever.
I don't have anything against Vampires wearing another older form of clothing, just as long as it's something with style. Heroes 3 outfit = poor style.
Advanced artifice belongs to another tech-level and age than the armour, sword & shield of a crusader or the crossbow of an archer. Mixing them doesn't make much sense and is a bad idea.
All the fantasy creatures attack with 'natural' weapons, and this includes the Vampire - a suit of clothing is NOT a weapon nor does it require advanced technology to make it. For the sake of balance the tech-level of the humans must be balanced with those natural weapons.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 27, 2001 12:09 AM |
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"How about falling to pieces like the Bone Dragon"
The bone dragon still falls to pieces in h3, right?
"Since vampires were created as part of modern life society, what do you expect them to wear?"
No way, the vampires exist since ancient times in the minds of the peoples.And here's another fact: in their early existance they were not percieved as noble man, but a sort of zombies walking up and down the graveyards. So they are not modern, nor they have been always classy. It's just how you picture them for yourself. Others see them differently.
"Vampires were never intended as a mass unit in an army. They're infiltraitors, spies or whatever."
That's perfectly true, but if you hang from this obiections, other monsters should also be solitary: there was only one pegasi in history and only one unicorn in history - you can't make an army from one monster, maybe just by cloning it.
"Heroes 3 outfit = poor style."
I don't agree, you should see the bigger picture of them, there is one on the net, I'll search for it and post it.I assure you the robes they wear are first-quality and worth for a gentleman of that age.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 27, 2001 12:47 AM |
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The bone dragon still falls to pieces in h3, right?
*lol* Perhaps, to tell you the truth I haven't really noticed. The animation is not anything that stays in mind, which is what I mind about H3. The one in H2 is on the other hand very good.
The old vampires you speak of. If they were called zombies at the time then perhaps they don't correspond to the Vampire we have today? I mean if you read some old stories or faerie tales, you'll notice that a lot of fantasy creatures have changed image and shape as the years have passed. (Dwarf and elf being two of them.) While the then "Zombie/Vampires" likely had some things in common with modern Vampires you're almost assured to find a lot about them that is different.
I'm not all that interested in how the h3 model looks. I'm interested in how it looks on the screen when animated. I'm also doubting that the model lloks like a noble... The vampire's coat seems to be torn/tatterd to me.
Also while grey-black robe may fit h3 it doesn't fit all that well in h4, and the h3 Vampire actually reminds me more of Quasimodo (for some obscure reason, is that Vampire a hunchback?) and a vagabond (because it has torn/tattered clothing) than a noble a the King's court.
Of course if you take the Lord in H4 and change the colours in appropriate ways, and then give the lord the face and hands of a Vampire you may get a good alternative vampire.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted November 27, 2001 07:25 PM |
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Ah, Nosferatu, Nosferatu, Nosferatu.
I think that even if the HOMM3 version for some of us, has some minor drawbacks (some guy said that it reminds him of mice), they shouldn't let the HOMM3 design and go back to HOMM2.
Because that's what the design is all about. The HOMM3 version could've served as a starting design, and afterwards they could've make the HOMM4 version based on that look, but only way cooler and scarier.
Now that would've been cool.
And add the *blah* there = perfect medieval vampire.
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted December 08, 2001 01:45 AM |
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Some new monsters I just lurned about.
I have just played an old game.. with some furious monsters in it!
Syron:A Soldier with god powers that kills of all that use magic with no reason. They kill good and bad.
Incarnate:they must find a host.. They live inside other creatures and if they leave the body the body will die.. and the soul will perish an evil death.. The incarnate goes from body to body.
Nordic Glow:An Ice based creature they lure people away in cold areas to be never found again.. They also look like bigger blue versions of will o wisp.
Astra. An angel like girl with flaming sword. She has also angel wings. She only shows herself when a battle is unfair.
Fire Sprite:Tought to be the natural form for light they are little flaming sprites that are hotter then the sun itself.
Karagh f all underground monsters this monster is the most aggressive. They like to kill all other underground races. They always hold an giant iron rusty sword. and their looks are very ugly and scary.
Bone Horror: Very original! This monsters are made out of the bones of their victims! if they kill a new victim the bones of their enemies will emurge into their own body. In this way the creatures will grow and grow by killing more and more victims..
Doom Hound:A large black dog. With glowing blue eyes. and blue/purple aura around his body... this dog seems to appear for people who are about to die a very very painfull death. When death the dog takes their souls and bodies with him into hell. This dogs aren't really dogs. They are evil humans that are turned into dogs by the evil demons from hell.
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Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 08, 2001 03:00 AM |
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Nice units from Age of Wonders. At any rate, the vampire look from H2 is NOT the same from H4 if I remember correctly... the vampire from H2 wore a big black cape wrapped around himself, but no tuxedo. Am I right?
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted December 08, 2001 10:19 PM |
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you are right.. and a colored collar. and the vampires hand was holding the cloak about him like a bat wrapped in it's wings.
surely not like the homm4 batman.. hmm.. when you look at the homm4 vampire's cloak (or whatever you call the thing he wears on his back), batman must have been the source of inspiration.. vampires are sort of a mixture of bat and man.. and they must s u c k .. but batman is a modern fantasy, isn't it? all this batman suit and batman car.. slightly resembles the concept of dragon golem, doesn't it?
the nwc has a batman fan among them! not that batman is a bad movie.. but imho batman and homm are not things that might mix well.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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grythandril
Famous Hero
who is a Chaotic Wizard
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posted December 09, 2001 12:11 AM |
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I do hope that the vampire trsnsform in a bat like in H2 that was cool and it was slighty better than the one in H3.
But that is personal opinion
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Might is Power
Magic is Power
Honor is Power
Power Rules Above All
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted December 09, 2001 09:39 PM |
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Let's hope it will still fly like a bat, but I'm afraid it will probably summon a Porsche...and will fire his pistols while driving... 
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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hobgoblin
Known Hero
captain hobgoblin
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posted December 09, 2001 10:01 PM |
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Batman
Quote:
you are right.. and a colored collar. and the vampires hand was holding the cloak about him like a bat wrapped in it's wings.
surely not like the homm4 batman.. hmm.. when you look at the homm4 vampire's cloak (or whatever you call the thing he wears on his back), batman must have been the source of inspiration.. vampires are sort of a mixture of bat and man.. and they must s u c k .. but batman is a modern fantasy, isn't it? all this batman suit and batman car.. slightly resembles the concept of dragon golem, doesn't it?
the nwc has a batman fan among them! not that batman is a bad movie.. but imho batman and homm are not things that might mix well.
Yes, I think there are influent piople in NWC or 3DO teams who are not fan of medieval fantazy, but rather fans of futurist fantazy.
It's not fair to say that, because I think they worked hard, and they probably made a good game on a lots of points, but if they had been real fans of medieval fantazy, they wouldn't have done some awefull things like replacing dendroids by waspworts, or putting dragon robots. They also wouldn't have designed a so modern vampire.
A friend said to me, I don't know if it's true, that 3do wanted to make an add-on for h3 with futurist castles. Do you know about it?
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Take me down to a pardise city where the girls are green and the grass is pretty
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted December 09, 2001 10:16 PM |
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Quote:
A friend said to me, I don't know if it's true, that 3do wanted to make an add-on for h3 with futurist castles. Do you know about it?
Never heard of that, but it wouldn't be hmm...and nothing like it...and surely I wouldn't play it.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted December 09, 2001 11:56 PM |
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Yes Vlad, you know of it 
He's talking about the Forge town, that was canceled and replaced with the Conflux.
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted December 10, 2001 09:27 PM |
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Quote:
Yes, I think there are influent piople in NWC or 3DO teams who are not fan of medieval fantazy, but rather fans of futurist fantazy.
looking at the homm2 creatures (check it out if you havn't seen them, it's worth it.. and if you have seen them, it's still worth taking another look at them), it seems that the design has declined.. they seem to be bored with medieval fantasy or sth.. they just don't seem to have the suitable attitude anymore :-(
========
btw there seem to be some dedicated fans here, may i predict that some day those fans will come together through internet and create their own game that is shareware, also runs on linux, etc, and is being improved as fans add new features or improved graphics to it.. well, i don't think that the time for that has come already, but i suspect that in a few years there might be enough fans that are able to do some 3d graphics and design some 5 creatures per person.. and create a nice game. the computers are improving all the time, and doing such things should become easyer.. i have seen that many ppl have tryed to create their own games, but those have been failures so far, i.e. they were never completed.. but maybe things like that could be done by an internet community like this one.. if it evolves a bit..
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