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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: New Creatures
Thread: New Creatures This thread is 16 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 · «PREV / NEXT»
Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 11, 2001 03:58 AM

Only problem is that I guess NWC/3do is very unhappy about people modifying the game... seems as if they are afraid their whole source code will be taken a pirated. Not an unlikely fear, but what I feel as a silly one at that.... Unreal Tournament, Starcraft, Myth II, Tribes II, Heretic II all have humongous editing programs and communities that have turned out high-quality work that only benefits the consumer and the producer... and the creator since they might get a potential padding on their resume *hint hint.. lol*

I have been wishing it for a while, but it never came up until WOG rolled around... I wish for a Heroes where I will be able to edit the creature graphics statistics, spell graphics etc. etc. etc.

This way people could put those fantastic creature ideas down on paper and pixels to create their own fantasy world... what an awesome idea! Now all NWC has to do is give us the capability to do that in English...hehehehe... I have plans for a new castle already!
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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted December 11, 2001 05:40 PM

so they don't want ppl to get their source code? i always thought they probably had some copyright instead.. actually i don't see anything complicated about homm except the ai.. i have always been wondering how the hell do they create ai for that kind of a game..

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hobgoblin
hobgoblin


Known Hero
captain hobgoblin
posted January 07, 2002 11:23 PM

I have many times thought creating my own game

Yes, heroes doesn't seem to be impossible to program, but it would take a lot of time and organization, which are the problems of non-professionnal programmers. If I wanted to create my game, I would have to search a lot of people to help me, I would have to organize the team, what is not an easy job, and I wouldn't have time for me anymore.
For the creatures editor, I think it's not the time of this type of things. For the moment, programmers' teams create games, not motors that could allow you to create games. Maybe it's gonna change.
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Take me down to a pardise city where the girls are green and the grass is pretty

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Wesley
Wesley


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
posted January 07, 2002 11:48 PM

Hobgoblin

Greath Idea! Why don't you make a thread about that? In the tavern? Or here?
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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted January 08, 2002 03:04 AM
Edited By: Gerdash on 7 Jan 2002

yeah, that's what i meant :)

if the nwc don't have the suitable attitude (batman fans, etc) some day the proletarians have to start taking care for themselves. btw if this kind of community can pull off the creation of a playable game and if the game is shareware and there are enough fans, it might start to evolve by itself. lmao, remember to contact me if you need criticism (: and maybe wesley would agree to help with some reasoning.

well, but mayibe it will not be us but our children who will be making games by themselves.

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hobgoblin
hobgoblin


Known Hero
captain hobgoblin
posted January 08, 2002 11:20 PM

Hmmm... Sorry Wesley

A thread about the creatures editor or the creation of a game by people on the net?
I would be so happy to create my own game, but I'm affraid it's just a dream.
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Wesley
Wesley


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
posted January 09, 2002 12:09 PM

Hmm.. Me and aerial

Are working on one.. But only basic things.. Like the creatures/Heroes/goodguys/Places(like mountains/swamps/deserts. Critters/names/buildings and the storyline/stories of creatures.

It won't come into 3d.. However.. Aerial did make a cool movie about zelda.. So maybe..
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Batvanio
Batvanio


Adventuring Hero
Archimage
posted January 09, 2002 01:21 PM

xxx!x

Quote:
so they don't want ppl to get their source code? i always thought they probably had some copyright instead.. actually i don't see anything complicated about homm except the ai.. i have always been wondering how the hell do they create ai for that kind of a game..


You're not a programmer I see.
The AI is not so hard to make. The computer could go through all the possibilities like in chess for example.
There are known math algorythms for this like wave, the shortest way, etc.
But you should cut its search path, cause the time the computer makes a turn will be enormous due to the power of current machines. But even if it could it would not be interesting, coz the computer will always win in that case.
The hard thing will be to balance the AI, so that it could LOSE!. And the ways it could lose. You should program  mistakes in the AI so that the human player to take advantage and win.
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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted January 09, 2002 05:45 PM
Edited By: Gerdash on 9 Jan 2002

batwanio:
actually the shortest way algorithm is very simple, at least it was very simple the way i made one myself and it worked nice (well, helped some friends a bit a few years ago when they wanted to create a game, and could't find a foolproof algorithm on the net for a week or so).

lol, but when i think about all the possible (shortest way) moves and what conequence they could have in the longer perspective, i am quite scared. i.e. i didn't mean it was about the shortest way, i meant it was about e.g. what resources to go for asap, what resources to forget about, what heroes to use for this task or another, what will be the situation when they have completed those tasks, in what order should the the wandering monsters be killed, what troops whith what stack distribution should be best for killing those monsters, what heroes should meet when and where in order to make best use of the troops, etc, ending with when to keep defensive and when to go on attack. this list is just nonstop from the top of my head right now, so excuse me if it doesn't look very well thought out.

the point that the ai doesn't have to be perfect is a good one, but it's behaviour should make sense to the player, should't it? well, in homm it often doesn't, so maybe i am wrong here.

the thing i am doubtful about is if the computer would always win if it always made perfect moves. there is some balanced risk factor in the moves, and i suspect that the player is usually able to take better advantage of it than the ai. i mean, i don't think a player that always wins is a good homm player. and imho the best wins:losses ratio should be about 1:2, so the player would get some feeling of accomplishment if he wins (isn't it so that many ppl get bored with homm because they always win because they use too easy settings?).

wesley:
as i have noticed, it's when the selfmade and unpayed game-makers get to the boring things (after some rapid initial progress on the more entertaining ones) that they start having problems with completing what they started. e.g. graphics optimization may be one of those things for some ppl. and then there is always some rl things that need to be done, and when you postpone them too long, ppl will start to blame you for wasting time on creating a computer game instead of doing sth useful. e.g. when you go to work your boss probably wants you to dedicate yourself more to his cause and i guess you don't even want him to know about the game in the first place. i just hope you are aware of those possible problems and wish you and aerial all the success.

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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted January 09, 2002 11:45 PM
Edited By: Gerdash on 9 Jan 2002

just a small contribution to the main topic of the thread

btw maybe it is a good thing that there are so few creature levels, so you would spend less effort building your town before you can start to play properly. now that they all have nice specials (at least that's what the nwc ppl say) it shouldn't hurt at all.
i.e. i have been rather undecided about reducing creature levels, but it seems that i am starting to like this change.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything

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hobgoblin
hobgoblin


Known Hero
captain hobgoblin
posted January 09, 2002 11:46 PM

AI...

I've never programmed a real AI, so I don't exactly know the difficulties of this work. I just have some ideas about the algorithms used.
Many times, when I played HOMM2, I saw an ennemy that I wanted to attack in his castle replacing his hundreds of hydras by some orcs because he had recruted a barbarian hero to defend the castle. Do you guys think it was to make the AI less strong, or a "bug"? For me, it didn't have sense, and I was very disappointed to fight 4 orcs instead of 150 hydras.
I confirm what Gerdash says for the game, a project like it is always hard and long to finish, even if you know how to do it.
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Take me down to a pardise city where the girls are green and the grass is pretty

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vladpopescu79
vladpopescu79


Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
posted January 11, 2002 09:41 PM



I'm not sure if the idea of cutbacks in the monster levels is good, afterall this is not the US Army...
This means that soon after you start the game you'll finish up the town and start massing troops...now what's the fun of that? I've always liked waiting near to the end of the game to finish upgrading that damn cloud tample or the portal of glory.It was frustrating, but there was something to wait for...
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES

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Wesley
Wesley


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
posted January 12, 2002 12:56 AM

Huntress


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Xenophanes
Xenophanes


Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
posted January 12, 2002 04:02 AM

The reason that there are less creature levels now is because NWC wanted each creature to be more distinct with animations and such. Therefore, they had to cut down on the amount, if they still wanted to give players a choice between the creatures of each level.
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<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>

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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted January 12, 2002 06:26 PM

vlad:
i don't see that kind of problems necessarily. so you don't want to get your titans so soon? what if the cloud temple will cost 100 gems to build, so you can build them only if you already massively dominate the map, just to speed up this boring end of game. i would rather expect that it's the lack of diversity of creatures in the army, and considering the increased amount of special abilities, this may be valid from the eye-candy point of view mainly. and.. the number of different creature possibilities in a town has actually increased, hasn't it? well, maybe we just play differently and/or i didn't understand your (and many other ppl's) point of view well enough?

another idea: maybe (or maybe as a game option) the top level building costs might depend on the map size, e.g. cloud temple costs 40+20*mapsize (e.g. small=1, medium =2, etc) gems. and maybe all building costs would depend on map size so that lev 1 building would always cost the same, other lower level buildings would depend on mapsize less and higher level buildings would depend on mapsize more, but that might disable some strategic options.

wesley:
very intriguing picture, i would say..
but if someone would ask me, i would make it so that the huntress attack animation would be a bit different. the beast she is riding would attack first and then the rider's attack would follow immediately after that. i have a gut feeling that when the beast attacks, it's forward movement slows down at the moment of contact with the opponent. this should cause the rider to slightly fall forward, and the rider could now nicely balance that impulse and even make good use of it with a heavy hit with whatever she is wielding. the way it is animated now puts heavy load on the leg muscles of the poor animal (well, especially the lower hit with the weapon seems bit uncomfortable to look at).
and if the rider attacks the same opponent as the beast, maybe the rider would be more effective with a longer weapon. well, a spear and a shield would be boring, but i guess that would be my first preference in that case because the movement would seem extremely natural. second preference.. i don't know, maybe a long sword or even a long lightweight axe. and no, it's not like the usual knights, because the horses didn't attack that way, i guess.
lol, very intriguing picture indeed imho.

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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted January 12, 2002 07:50 PM
Edited By: Gerdash on 12 Jan 2002

this should be a reply in some other thread, but unfortunately it would be more off-topic there than here.
well, yeah, i like to speak my mouth, so here we go:

i would prefer a peasant population in every town. they could have races, like human peasants in human town (sth like the cultivated area around towns in aow2 or civ fits in perfectly imho), and imps or sth lower than imps in inferno (and some lava lakes and streams). well, with some other town types the species of different level creatures are too different and i don't know how to integrate them. e.g. i don't have a solution to how gnomes or hobbits as the peasants of tower should somehow help to generate nagas.

castle would be easy, you take some of the peasant population (well, it doesn't have to be peasants really, maybe they should be called human citizens or sth) and raise it as a knight or archer.

necro would be easy either, the undead don't need to eat to live (although they may "feel" hungry all the time), so they might use whatever race peasants just to produce skeletons.

inferno would work on lava terrain with imps who multiply in flames, and when an inferno creature eats some imps and gets appropriate equipment and training, he would upgrade into a higher creature. actually, instead of imps they could also eat human peasants, so when inferno captures a human town, imps and higher demons could be upgraded there.

version 2: there would be only human peasants. inferno can corrupt a peasant (limited somehow) and turn him into an imp, everything else would be like above. and humans could liberate the town terrorized by inferno and the exorcists would have some work to do (and then there would be a great party to praise the god for the victory, etc, you know).

========
one difference would be that the inferno and necro wouldn't recruit paladins if they conquered a human town, but it would be a slave town for them rather.

another difference would be that a castle would give massive defense bonuses and would be difficult to take, but when the food supplies run short in a sieged castle and you don't have enough troops to fight in the field, too bad.
also, an opponent army could destroy your crops, so you would probably have to protect the area where your fields (and peasants) are. but in the case of a more dangerous attack you would have some time to arrive at the sieged castle with a stronger army before the castle is taken and you loose your creature generators and fortifications to the opponent.
well, instant conquering the way it is in homms seems to cause some gameplay problems discussed in some now forgotten threads, namely the turtling vs offense thing.

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barbarian
barbarian


Famous Hero
posted January 12, 2002 09:57 PM

Quote:




Woho way cl that's the scariest creature I have ever saw.

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It's optional.

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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted January 13, 2002 08:36 PM

hmm.. btw why doesn't that beast have a jawbone?
ok, no offense, i guess this is just warcraft style
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything

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Slash
Slash

Tavern Dweller
posted March 24, 2002 06:15 PM
Edited By: Slash on 24 Mar 2002

Griffins are in heroes 4  they have 95 hit points do 16 -22 damagetheir attack is 19 their meelee defense is 19 their ranged defense is 19 their movement is 29/13 they cost 800 gold their attributes are flying and unlimited retalliation and tehy are found in the preserve castle.

Oh lordy lordy lordy theres soooo much b***ing about stuff that inaccutate i cant take it i dont have time to adress them all i have the creature cards frome heroes 4 aim me and i will send it to u my sn is "imjoehilliard" ok? this just overwhealms me so much misinformation rumours and speculation

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Two Titans standing
armor shining in the sun
in flew a Blackdragon
then there was one

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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted March 24, 2002 07:30 PM

Quote:
Oh lordy lordy lordy theres soooo much b***ing about stuff that inaccutate i cant take it i dont have time to adress them all i have the creature cards frome heroes 4 aim me and i will send it to u my sn is "imjoehilliard" ok? this just overwhealms me so much misinformation rumours and speculation



What do you expect from a thread which is several months old?

Also beware that since this is in the Altar of WISHES, the creatures (features) WISHED for need not be in the game.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"

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