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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: vote for the strongest faction
Thread: vote for the strongest faction This thread is 16 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 · «PREV / NEXT»
gnomes2169
gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted December 22, 2010 06:42 AM

Lizards have the highest hp of their tier. Low? It rivals some tier 5 creature's hp.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
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phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted December 22, 2010 01:59 PM

But they die very fast.
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Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted December 22, 2010 05:02 PM

Quote:
... many won't agree with me.


Certainly .

Quote:
8 Fortress - well... Too many dwarves. The Fire Dragon was the best creature of the faction and there were some good combos with the creatures but it's still not that interesting at all.


Having Dwarves as a race is one of the most logical ideas I've seen in the HOMM series, compare to it being just a creature in the previous ones. I used to have the same opinion like yours on their high-level tiers, but interestingly the more you play the more you can appreciate their low-level creatures especially the Shieldguards. Seriously, high HP and growth, they're really such a late game nightmare.

Quote:
7 Academy - Academy is a really good faction only because it's heroes (like Zehir) and spells. Some of the creatures really suck (that stone freak thing and Genie). But the level 6 and 7 creatures were worth it.


Naah... you speak only for the campaign, of course Zehir with his special ability is somewhat imba to the AI. Their low-level creatures are also useful if you really know how to use them, for example, your "stone freak thing" should actually serve their purpose as blockers (high init & speed flyers) rather than hitters. Other than that, Gnomes has mentioned it, but I assume he meant mini-arties. I agree with you on one thing though, Genie sucks .

Quote:
4 Haven - I love the Light spells and the story and the Angels but still the other creatures are rather weak (not the Griffin).
3 Sylvan - oh... Elves and Unicorns and Green Dragon and Findan with his special ability with the shooting... Totally third place.


Story? Findan? Ah, so I'm right, you're speaking about the campaign rather than single games . It is made to lure newbies to love the game, lol... thus those non-sense abilities of Zehir, Findan, Freyda, Raelag...

Quote:
1 Dungeon - omg! The double damage with Warlocks luck also... I love Raelag and his buddies! Blood Maidens, Witches and most of all - the Black Dragon.


OK, I'm not gonna repeat my point . In multi-player games, Dungeon is one difficult faction to master though given their low growth. Once you pick-up the learning curve, then it's a different story.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted December 22, 2010 05:43 PM

Duncan is alive?
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Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted December 22, 2010 05:53 PM

I'm being resurrected, just like this thread .
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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted December 22, 2010 10:45 PM

Huza! I brought something back to life!

Now to go spread my evil elsewhere...

@ Duncan, Yes, arties. They are very useful.

@ Phoenix, Well, yes. But every shot going at them isn't going at your other units, like dragons... and Blood Furies Making the furie's survival rate 2-4 turns longer (Depending on luck/ moral).
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phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted December 23, 2010 04:35 AM

ok.  Good stuff Gnomes.  By the way have you looked at the youtube videos thread?
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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted December 23, 2010 05:06 AM

hmmm, once or twice. Not today, and, since I'm new to this place, not very many of them... But I'll go look at them now I guess.
____________
Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
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Avenger
Avenger

Tavern Dweller
Searching an innocent to save
posted December 31, 2010 08:13 AM

Hi to all! To my mind, haven are the best choice because they can fight through every possible combinations and every ennemies possible with their high values in defense and their strong fighting abilities (especially the paladin which you must have understood i really love!!!)
with units as support with the crossbowmen very deadly as soon as you improve them, the paladin who are really strong fighters and can heal any curse and give some hp back, the archangels with their legendary resurrect spell who have saved my neck a couple of time!

I like the dwarves too because they are cool and strong but to my mind are not offensive enough! their berserkers dies too quickly!!!!
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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted December 31, 2010 08:21 AM

Berzerkers seem to die allot. Agree, so you give the Berzerkers rune of dragon form

Also, haven's nice little defense doesn't last long against a hero with mass dark spells like vulnerability, and Haven's greatest weakness is their naturally low initiative, if you exclude the Griffin, of course. (Though they tend to fly into the enemy alone... and then die... Such is life.) Still, I suppose you could counter those effects with some endurance and haste, though Haven heroes are not casters. A strong caster army, like Dungeon, Academy and the Undead, can cause Haven absolute hell.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred

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Deathy
Deathy


Known Hero
Angels Galore
posted December 31, 2010 04:55 PM

Quote:

A strong caster army, like Dungeon, Academy and the Undead, can cause Haven absolute hell.


are you talking about early game? because i can't see how Necropolis or Dungeon would be problematic for Haven in late game.

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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted December 31, 2010 07:42 PM
Edited by gnomes2169 at 19:42, 31 Dec 2010.

early-mid game, yes. A little Suffering also helps a bit, and Weakness, while useless against the arch angel/ angel, murders archers, paladins and griffins. In late game, the shiny knights have too much health for any of these things to matter much.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred

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MageOfDestiny
MageOfDestiny

Tavern Dweller
posted January 08, 2011 09:40 PM

This question is very problematic because we have to consider many factors..
Well creature wise its obvious to say that DUNGEON and HAVEN would kick everyone else's ass..they have the most advanced units,the hero is complimenting Haven units well,Dungeon units are only there to look while the mighty Warlock is casting....ONE ISSUE-everything is ridicuilously expensive..
Sylvan and Inferno...never understood what are they about...weak creatures,they fall fast,the hero is not very good at complimenting them(if we dont count gating)...they by desing shoud be a Magic faction,since they are not...
IMO THEY ARE JUST USELESS
Necropolis-IMO best hero,the hero compliments the creatures well (btw the worst creatures in game),and all the skills the hero has a high chance to learn are favourable...with spellpower matching the warlock's IMO they are the ultimate casters
SO MY CHOICE IS NECROPOLIS - MARKAL AND ARANTIR ARE MY IDOLS
Academy-a confusing faction-creatures from stone "thingiis" to mighty cats and colossi...but the hero has soo many skills he just CANT get (2%)  many which could compliment their entire strategy very well..too bas..you are stuck with magic alone..
Stronghold-not bad facton,simple prospect,simple hero,good and cheap units.But if they are exposed to magic,there is no such thing which can save them-no blood rage high enough,no shatter magic advanced enough...
Fortress-aaaah the good old dwarves...an expansion not well spent...i dont get why are they even in the game...just POINTLESS

But these are not the only factors...you need to take into consideration how long your battle will last-
EARLY GAME ADVANTAGE    MIDGAME DOMINANCE MID-END GAME SHIFTS  ENDGAME
Sylvan                   Necropolis          Dungeon joins      Haven
Academy                                      Orcs join         Inferno
                                                             Fortress

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 08, 2011 11:15 PM
Edited by Elvin at 23:19, 08 Jan 2011.

You could sum it up as..

Haven crap earlygame(unless with warmachines), pretty good on lategame.
Dungeon rocks early to midgame, falls like flies later.
Sylvan not so good early, walking imbalance later.
Inferno rocky start, potentially scary later.
Necro cool early to midgame, not good enough lategame.
Academy solid early till lategame, depending on your build.
Orcs are good early till lategame, only weakness is dark.
Dwarves not so good early, plain imbalanced later.

Ofc ratings change according to who faces who (or on what map but let's assume a rather 'balanced' one), a lategame necro facing a powerful warlock is more or less suicide. Likewise orcs have trouble vs necro, dungeon has a really hard time vs orcs, fortress has the edge against dungeon and so on.
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MageOfDestiny
MageOfDestiny

Tavern Dweller
posted January 12, 2011 01:03 PM

So Elvin,following that same logic,what would happen (in lategame) for example:

-between Necro vs. Academy ?
- Academy vs. Dungeon?
-Academy vs. Haven?
-Academy vs. Stronghold?
-finally Haven vs. Stronghold?
Academy is controversial , having a hero with great ponetnial but some of the creatures are useless without custom-made artifacts,and even so,they are not top-notch,but likeable anyway.
Same goes for Dungeon-in lategame,the army is merely "holding out for the hero" so the Warlock could blast the opponent with  spells...
Then whats the point in having an army?
The contrary goes for haven-the army/creatures are well bulit,they compliment eachother in combat,there is a ligh magic caster+even resurresction is possible...so then why to have the hero,since he/she is only there to boost the creatures' stats?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 12, 2011 01:28 PM

Quote:
So Elvin,following that same logic,what would happen (in lategame) for example:

-between Necro vs. Academy ?
Unless necro has an overwhelming force academy has the edge I fear. Whether by destructive or might with buffing/cleansing aid. Morale/luck and extra initiative work wonders against the slow moving necro and stormwind makes things worse.

- Academy vs. Dungeon?
Dungeon has some trouble here, especially if academy manages lvl 3 minies.

-Academy vs. Haven?
Anybody's game but if haven't has too many paladins it can be bad for the wizards. Gold/resources will be decisive in the racial's strength.

-Academy vs. Stronghold?
If academy gets dark, stronghold is in deep waters. If not orcs can trample all over the wizard army without breaking a sweat - assuming that they make a full frontal charge on the very first round. With lvl 3 artificer it can get interesting..

-finally Haven vs. Stronghold?
I'd give the edge to haven for the simple reason that both light and dark work well. If the orcs pick the wrong shatter or none, haven gets a might advantage. But a big role will play on who gets enlightenment and whether orcs have shout. Naturally morale/luck triggering at the right time can decide the game as is starting atb, it is quite an unpredictable match.

Quote:
Same goes for Dungeon-in lategame,the army is merely "holding out for the hero" so the Warlock could blast the opponent with  spells...
Then whats the point in having an army?

On the contrary, dungeon army is LETHAL. If it manages to get a few good attacks before dying But seriously in lategame dungeon can have some serious might potential, its high attack/damage boosted by elemental chains and possibly luck can be devastating. It's just a matter of making your attacks connect while your units are intact so initiative plays a very big role.

Quote:
The contrary goes for haven-the army/creatures are well bulit,they compliment eachother in combat,there is a ligh magic caster+even resurresction is possible...so then why to have the hero,since he/she is only there to boost the creatures' stats?

It's not that simple. Army by itself means little, a haven with +50% army(or more) compared to a wizard or a necromancer can easily fall without spellcasting. Because both of them can disrupt the flow of combat and contain the knight's key units. In case of same army the fight would be hopeless for the knight unless he was really really lucky and the enemy heroes had rotten luck.
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MageOfDestiny
MageOfDestiny

Tavern Dweller
posted January 12, 2011 02:00 PM


-between Necro vs. Academy ?
Unless necro has an overwhelming force academy has the edge I fear. Whether by destructive or might with buffing/cleansing aid. Morale/luck and extra initiative work wonders against the slow moving necro and stormwind makes things worse.

- Academy vs. Dungeon?
Dungeon has some trouble here, especially if academy manages lvl 3 minies.

So what you are saying is that academy is the STRONGEST MAGIC faction?

And another thing-will academy creatures be overwhelmed by other units,since they dont get stat bonuses (attack/defence) like some other creatures do from their heroes (haven,dungeon,inferno etc.)?
I know there's light magic for that but still....

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 12, 2011 02:22 PM

Quote:
So what you are saying is that academy is the STRONGEST MAGIC faction?

Nah there is no such thing as the strongest faction. It does have an edge over the other two in lategame but does not necessarily fare better vs the rest of the factions.

Quote:
And another thing-will academy creatures be overwhelmed by other units,since they dont get stat bonuses (attack/defence) like some other creatures do from their heroes (haven,dungeon,inferno etc.)?
I know there's light magic for that but still....

Sure but at least it's easier to get defense in a long game. Light magic won't be much help if your units are dying fast.
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zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 12, 2011 02:41 PM
Edited by zaio-baio at 14:56, 12 Jan 2011.

well, for me academy is overpowered -> great early/mid and late game ( if the aca player knows what he is doing) and thats the problem -> all the factions are strong only in one particular part of the game ( haven/sylvan/inferno/fortress - late; necro - mid, dungeon mid-late), while academy just rule them all , and ,yes, seriously i dont see how a lategame academy with 30+ knowledge ( arties, u know ), that has mentored a knight ( a lvl 26-27 hero, can mentor another to lvl 20-21 )
is going to be defeated -> and just dont look at the things statswise ->
its the knights might perks, that give the uber-edge - retribution,defense, leadership ( maeve + uber haste )

also if u look at the artificer ability closely u will see something very interesting -> it allows you to give att and def and initiative to all your creatures - and this is the very imba part - just compare this to the hero bonuses - for instance at lvl 20 dougal gives + 10 def/att to all the lvl 2 haven creatures, laszlo gives the same thing for all the lvl 3, another heroes give the same bonus for creatures that are lvl 1, 4,5  -> but academy with its artificial ability gives the same bonus that 7 different heroes would give( note that at 50 knowledge its + 16 att/def ) !!!Also, there  are no heroes in the game that give + att/def bonus to lvl 6 or lvl 7 creatures, but the artificer doesnt have such unnessecery limits.

And the initiative arties - well , its the same thing as the infamous and banned Wyngaal ( the ranger with + init at the start of the combat) gives , the only difference is that it is permanent .The fun thing is that the ranger wont have a lvl higher then 25 but academy wll most likely be able to forge arties with 25-30% bonus to the initiative in the lategame ( actually ive already seen the horror from 43% init artie )

combine all that with a lvl 20-23 mentored knight with expert att tactics/archery + retribution, expert leadership + empathy, expert enlightenment + inteligence, expert light + some stuff just for mass spells and storm wind mb, and expert defence ( nothing here, its important just for the + 30% dmg reduction). Dont forget the arti merchant in the castle, it is the cherry in the acas late game)

this is the lategame potential of academy , a faction that is supposed to be weak at that stage of the game ( early + mid game monsters).

btw aca beats haven/inferno/fortress/sylvan/necro/dungeon/stronghold early, mid and lategame , u just need to play your cards right - thats all

and about the new "tote" stuff - every faction gets and looses something ( ex. haven gets empathy, but looses aura of swiftness), while academy has just benefits, not to mention the new gremslins that just kill the opponents balista battle potential ( and the warmashines skill respectively), the improved storm wind that has a great effect on haven/sylvan/necro, while almost doesnt touch the academy and much much more.

And a question in the end, for the more experienced players - which faction has the highest chance to beat academy ? Isnt that another academy ?

P.S what Elvins says, about aca vs the other factions referes only to lategame, if not enough resources for mini arties + no mentor, the fun part is that there will be no lategame, becouse haven, sylvan, inferno, fortress cant survive the early + mid game

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 12, 2011 02:48 PM

Best academy killers? Haven, fortress, sylvan.

Mentoring knights with academy is cheesy and was probably never intended by the game devs much like the high druids / imbued ballista combo. It's just a silly exploit.
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