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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Black Dragons immune to all magic?
Thread: Black Dragons immune to all magic? [ This thread is 3 pages long: (1) 2 3 ]
dantares
dantares


Hired Hero
posted June 19, 2006 06:08 AM

Black Dragons immune to all magic?

why are black dragons being affected by armageddon? I mean with the warlock skill, a warlock cannot cast armageddon, because it will kill his own BD, which is quite stupid. I mean in the past HOMM, armageddon is a warlock's speciality because only they can cast it without killing any of their unit as BD is the only unit that immune to all magic. I mean in HOMM5, the spell cannot be cast at all.

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TDL
TDL


Honorable
Famous Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted June 19, 2006 06:19 AM

It is because of Warlock's skill of Irresistible Magic. Warlock ignores a certain percentage of magic resistance and thus are able to damage/harm units that otherwise would be resistant.

As a matter of fact, I find it strange that Irresistible Magic ignores friendly units' magic resistance. I tend to find it quite silly, though I have never experienced this.
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Reality is just a warped placeholder for (our) imagination.

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rumagent
rumagent

Tavern Dweller
posted June 19, 2006 06:31 AM
Edited by rumagent at 06:31, 19 Jun 2006.

Quote:
As a matter of fact, I find it strange that Irresistible Magic ignores friendly units' magic resistance. I tend to find it quite silly, though I have never experienced this.


I like it. The armageddon/black dragon approach of the previous HoMM was simply too cheesy. No offence intended.

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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted June 19, 2006 07:20 AM

that's stupid. You are forced to have this skill as a Warlock, and you pay for a unit whose specialty is Magic Immunity. This effectively means the unit's Magic Immunity does not protect your unit from Armageddon, but neither does it help when you cast Fireball, Meteor Shower, etc. Those spells all are essential to most Destructive Magic-oriented Dungeon heroes. This needs fixing.
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If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.

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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 19, 2006 07:50 AM

No, they made the Irresistable Magic work on your own creatures for a reason. So you cannot use the same old tactic as always? Good.

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TDL
TDL


Honorable
Famous Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted June 19, 2006 07:58 AM

Another, might be unrelated to this statement, thing that bothers me concerning blackies is WHY the hell are they cheaper than emerald dragons? ahem, emerods have crappy damage, less hp... and if it is for the initiative than this is a thing to be replaced...

Oh and as for the immunity, I have just tested this... Meteor Shower + 22 Level Sinitar = MY OWN blackies' death... Evil

On the other hand, it would be nice to see a Dark Magic based Dungeon hero (lethos, for example) against a horde of blackies with puppet master... Would it work? I mean, would it have any chance of working? An interesting question...
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Reality is just a warped placeholder for (our) imagination.

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Fuzzier
Fuzzier


Adventuring Hero
posted June 19, 2006 08:43 AM
Edited by Fuzzier at 08:45, 19 Jun 2006.

They aren't immune to Fist of Wrath.
This spell is special, let's say that the damage is not done by magic energy directly, but a physical fist 'summoned' by magic that does physical damage.
And their magic immunity doesn't prevent you from casting summoning spells, so magic still 'works' on them.

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Iris
Iris


Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
posted June 19, 2006 08:50 AM

Quote:
that's stupid. You are forced to have this skill as a Warlock, and you pay for a unit whose specialty is Magic Immunity. This effectively means the unit's Magic Immunity does not protect your unit from Armageddon, but neither does it help when you cast Fireball, Meteor Shower, etc. Those spells all are essential to most Destructive Magic-oriented Dungeon heroes. This needs fixing.


Your hero ignores their magic immunity.  Other heros do not.    Let's say your opponent casts Armageddon.  Your Black Dragons will not be harmed (assuming your opponent is not a Dungeon hero).

At least I think that's how it works.  

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dantares
dantares


Hired Hero
posted June 19, 2006 08:51 AM

so what about amageddon, now, no one will cast it since no one is immune to it, the warlocks are the only one that can have black dragons yet they also have that skill that affect their own friendly units, the spell is officially, the most useless spell that no one will ever cast.

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silentbobus
silentbobus


Adventuring Hero
posted June 19, 2006 08:56 AM

Maybe there could be a compromise, something like irresistable magic only effects your creatures half as much as your opponents.

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted June 19, 2006 09:10 AM

Nobody forces you to master irresistible spells.Feel free to leave it to basic(20% is negligible) if you plan on using armageddon,but think of the tradeoff first:With expert you receive half damage on your 240 hp dragons while emerald ones(or any other 7 tier) receive all of it,having less hp too.It's just not overpowered anymore.And you can still get defence for protection ability or luck for resistance if you want to feel safer.No biggie!
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Kabukiman
Kabukiman

Tavern Dweller
posted June 19, 2006 09:35 AM

Quote:
so what about amageddon, now, no one will cast it since no one is immune to it, the warlocks are the only one that can have black dragons yet they also have that skill that affect their own friendly units, the spell is officially, the most useless spell that no one will ever cast.


But thats all the spell is about. It isn't called Armageddon for nothing.

Armageddon is and in my opinion always was a spell of last resort - an option to increase the enemies losses when facing certain defeat.


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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted June 19, 2006 09:51 AM

Or if you are winning and want to cause havoc for fun!We should not deny our selfdestructive nature!
But seriously even when not the best spell for your style of play(not for mine anyway) it can be rewarding when the time is right.
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beware a monkey
-ghost

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Vicheron
Vicheron


Known Hero
posted June 19, 2006 02:39 PM

Irresistible Magic sucks because it doesn't affect Magic Resistance from Unicorns and the Luck ability, it doesn't let you cast Light magic on your Black Dragons, and it doesn't let you cast Dark Magic on enemy Black Dragons.

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TGeorge
TGeorge

Tavern Dweller
Warlock
posted June 20, 2006 07:02 AM

Quote:
Irresistible Magic sucks because it doesn't affect Magic Resistance from Unicorns and the Luck ability, it doesn't let you cast Light magic on your Black Dragons, and it doesn't let you cast Dark Magic on enemy Black Dragons.


Exactly...if my Armaggedon can penetrate my Black dragon's immunity...why can't my Rightous might penetrate it too?

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Lichon
Lichon

Tavern Dweller
posted June 20, 2006 11:14 AM

Irresistible Magic only allows spell damage to effect all creatures. So any other non-damaging spell are still effected by the  full resistance, of the selected creature.

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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted June 20, 2006 12:04 PM

Yeah, we know that, and that's precisely why it should not affect your own unit's magic resistance.
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If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.

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B0rsuk
B0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted June 20, 2006 06:00 PM

Quote:
so what about amageddon, now, no one will cast it since no one is immune to it, the warlocks are the only one that can have black dragons yet they also have that skill that affect their own friendly units, the spell is officially, the most useless spell that no one will ever cast.


In a perfectly symmetric world - yes, no one will cast armagedoon, ever. However, the world is not symmetric. Basically you can cast armageddon when your opponent has more to lose.
I don't know about H5, but in other Heroes games Efreets were resistant - not immune - to fire.
It can be valuable to cast armageddon when you have just 1 stack, and your opponent has multiple stacks. Your opponent will take several times more damage than you. How about Treants ?
It can be good if all your creatures have significantly more HP than opponent's. Cast it if your opponent has a lot of lowhp creatures, like elves, liches, or shooters in general. Shooters tend to have a lot less hp than other creatures. Potentially good against Academy ?
Another reason to use it is because it can make a battle a lot shorter. If you know your opponent will try to cast lots of mass buffs or summons, deny him this opportunity. When he finally gets those buffs out, it won't matter much because he'll have like 10 elves with stoneskin.
Use it if you can get some of your units back after a battle. Ressurection skill in Heroes4. Similar necro skill in H5.

General rule to using symetric weapons: use them when you have less to lose.
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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted June 21, 2006 02:37 AM

I find it ridiculous that the only TRULY magic immune unit is the dungeon's blackie. This means the irresistable magic is good mainly for killing your own black dragons with spells and it cancels dragogeddon combo, wich was quite cool imo. It should let you cast buffs on them too, at least....

Well, even with a 1k dmg armageddon and basic irresistable magic you still won't kill any of your dragon, but you will leave him in a pathetic state of 40 hp with no possible way to cure or ressurect him..

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dantares
dantares


Hired Hero
posted June 21, 2006 01:03 PM

BD are never immune to magic. why? warlocks are the ones controlling them and to fight a warlock, he/she have that skill. So as long as you are a powerful wizard, you can kill off the BD with your magic. STUPID.. I wish they changed it such that it will not affect your own creatures.

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