|
| Thread: Heroes 4 features to come back |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
posted June 28, 2006 03:22 PM |
|
|
|
I think the removal of upgrading was the most dissapointing thing about the game. I think the possibility of upgrading adds so much to the game - but then, we all play differently.
|
|
rpgguy
Adventuring Hero
Scholar
|
|
posted July 06, 2006 11:50 AM |
|
|
after viewing the results from the votes it seems the all the leading votes are connected to the micro aspect of the game (moving creatures,caravans,flagging) which leads to the conclusion that heroes 5 needs a change to the way it now works - moving creatures with only 5 heroes and 1 spell is not enough.
when i play heroes 5 i find myself using 1 or 2 heroes to actualy play the game and the other 3 or 4 to be moving around the map aimlessly to scout/flag and move creatures which i find very boring and time consuming...
this can be solved (and voted by many players) by:
1)caravans
2)flagging needs to work like in heroes 4
3)a better system where creatures could move on their own.
i suggest that creatures could move on their own like in heroes 4 but with some consequences for example each turn 1-2 populations (and not creatures!!!) will desert the heroless army.
another addition might be that only an army big enough (1-2 population could move without a hero).
so if you try to move 1 peaseant you wont be able to and if you move 2k of skeletons archers each day about 20-30 of them will leave you each day.
that way moving creatures will be possible but using armies of 1 creature to scout around wont be possible.
____________
Week Of The Rabbit
Triple Growth For All Creatures
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted July 06, 2006 12:02 PM |
|
|
|
Or another way to make it work would be to re-introduce caravans - which allows you to take in creatures from flagged dwellings and move units from town to town - but to make this the only way that units could wander aimlessly - so that you could not use a hero-less unit as a real unit, but only move it from one place to another, with out benefits of scouting and treasure collecting. Also, it should be possible to send creatures that joined you back to a town, but again, they should not be able to wander on their own.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted July 06, 2006 03:16 PM |
|
|
h5 is a sequel to h3, with all consequences, unfortunately. However, wandering creatures are utterly annoing (whoops, I've ended my turn near a horde of black dragons, zomg ;x) so I'm pretty much satisfied that they decided to leave it behind.
|
|
Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
|
|
posted July 06, 2006 07:18 PM |
|
|
Moving creatures without heroes - Bad idea. The game is about Heroes (hence the title  ), so it's silly if you can move troops without a Hero.
Caravans - I liked this feature; you could "wrap up" a bunch of troops and sort of mail them to another city (provided a route there existed, unblocked). Besides that, you could recruit creatures from external dwellings this way, without visiting it. Wouldn't mind seeing its return.
Daily growth of creatures - Bad idea, imho. I always liked the 7-day concept, as it adds a strategic factor on what time you spend collecting your own troops as well as sieging enemy towns.
The master and grandmaster skill ranks - Considering that even level 30 Heroes are not maxed out on their skills (although Witch Huts can help), adding 4 more ranks (Master and Grand Master, along with their 2 Subskills) might be a bit much. But perhaps it might be a nice idea to allow a Hero to raise 1 (one) skill to Grand Mastery and the others only to Expert.
Heroes fight and can be killed in battles - Heroes already engage in battles (albeit a bit strange when they do so in melee, during a siege with an undamaged wall ...). I don't like them dieing to enemy creatures, makes them too weak, especially in the early levels.
Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources - Definately! It's just tedeous to run along them every week. Coupled with this is of course the caravan idea, with which you can buy units from creature generators.
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking - I don't like it, for strategical reasons. I especially thought it was bovine manure first class that ranged units would retaliate to enemy ranged units, instead of finding cover ...
Creatures can not be upgraded - I like to upgrade them, give them better stats and special stuff  .
Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle - I saw some good suggestions elsewhere on this forum, of just allowing several creatures to have alternates, coupled with the option of being able to tear down a structure. That way you can replace structures that you don't like.
Stuff I didn't see on your list:
Hero prisons - Adds another strategical element to the game. Especially when coupled with the ability to ransom captured Heroes. It penalizes surrendering during combat more.
Additional Artifact slots - I'd like to see these! It's rather odd how they handle the unequipable Artifacts right now (Bag of Gold in back slot, 4-Leaf Clover in shield slot).
|
|
shassz
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted July 06, 2006 08:12 PM |
|
|
Moving creatures without heroes: It has some great potential. Like creatures who are crappy in battle but who can do some useful things on the world map. Some "fog elementals" makes your army size inperceptable. Some high level flyers combined with small units allow them to fly. Etc.
Daily growth of creatures: Yeah I want them fast pls!
The master and grandmaster skill ranks: Yeah yeah itd be good. Theyd lower the max number of proficiencies to 4-5 from 6 but add master and grandmaster and some more specials and combos for existing skills.
Heroes fight and can be killed in battles: I cant decide..
Creatures cannot be upgraded: No upgrades pls! Lets make creature specialization instead. Who wants a stun effect as specialization for imperial griffin`s battle dive? I guess specialization proved its worthyness with wizard`s artificier ability.
Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle: Absolutely. This would have been the best part of H4, though they didnt have time to balance it out, so ppl just didnt like it. This system with 4-5 tiers and balanced decisions on every level would be the best.
Nice topic btw.
|
|
rpgguy
Adventuring Hero
Scholar
|
|
posted July 09, 2006 03:57 AM |
|
|
thanks shassz and the rest for their opinions.
it still amazes me that a majority of the community chose: "Nothing! heroes 4 was terrible in all aspects" option without giving any explanation to why they chose it...
can at least one of you guys explain next to each option what is so terrible about it??? it seems very childish to just pick "nothing is good!" and leave no comment... 
____________
Week Of The Rabbit
Triple Growth For All Creatures
|
|
Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted July 09, 2006 05:16 AM |
|
Edited by Homer171 at 05:17, 09 Jul 2006.
|
External Creature Dwelling excange would be great!
This is interesting... Where is the Caravans?  Buy dwelling creatures inside your castle was great. Moving Creatures whitout hero worked in H4. We don't need it in H5 because of Summon Creatures spell! Skill system was great in H4 but in H5 we can't get so many lv's and there are no skill ups in every corner this time. Expert skills are enough. Others are crap!
I really hope in Expansion pack they add External Dwellings chance to equip non-upg and upgraded creatures!!! Still very few would buy non-upgraded creatures... Maybe hero can buy upgraded creatures in dwellings IF he/she allready has upgraded creatures in the army. Hmm... yes... I'd like that! Yes and my vote is Nothing! (Caravan if any)
|
|
shassz
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted July 09, 2006 07:45 AM |
|
|
Quote:
thanks shassz and the rest for their opinions.
it still amazes me that a majority of the community chose: "Nothing! heroes 4 was terrible in all aspects" option without giving any explanation to why they chose it...
can at least one of you guys explain next to each option what is so terrible about it??? it seems very childish to just pick "nothing is good!" and leave no comment...
I wouldnt say H4 was crap. It was more mature in some ways then H5(building system moving creatures without heroes) but it simply wasnt balanced in tier decisions and had some crappy music. H5 on the other way has a way better skill system. Though Id still love to see some more options for skills, specials the comeback of master and grandmaster levels. With master and grandmaster I think its obvious that they should lower the ammount of skills a hero can be proficient with since you cannot reach every grandmaster with specials till the level cap which is btw quite unreachable. With lower number of skills but greater specialization(*master) even heroes in castles can differ so much that it worth to pump up more heroes. As for the original topic`s "heros in battles" question I would say that for heroes with creature boost specialty should merge with the chosen creatures and give them some nice specials, and other heroes should completely stay out of battle. Heroes on the other hand should occupy slots in an army so more heroes should be enabled in 1 army. On the other hand slot number could be variable depending on best hero(in the army) level or some new leadership primary ability.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted July 09, 2006 09:52 AM |
|
|
well, h5 is even better than h3 imo, just _not-finished_. Why? Because it has much more strategical possibilities than h3, leading to less repetitive play. And the factions REALLY differ, not just by units, but by strategies and development too. Plus not that bad balance. Good job ubi.
I still expect more from future patches and expansions.
|
|
Firgon
Adventuring Hero
absent mind
|
|
posted July 09, 2006 10:18 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Besides, I wanted to have venom spawns AND vampires in my army, it was so unfair that I couldn't
Wanna wenom spawns and wampires? No problem. Heres a little advice pal. Hire a necromancer and concentrate on necromancy. Dweling lvl.3: choose wenom spawns. They will support your necromancer to get quickly high levels and if youre lucky youll have grandmaster necromancy with level 10 hero...
As to me. I would like to see back generating external treasury buildings like dragon city. it was annoying for me to come to one and discover that it was already raided.
|
|
ZeroXcuses
Known Hero
|
|
posted July 10, 2006 06:46 AM |
|
|
Moving creatures without heroes - Only for neutral stacks to avoid "grab the resource without fighting" and "get near the neutral without triggering battle" cheese.
Caravans - I prefer town portal. Caravans made it too easy to protect a 'well placed' castle while ignoring the defense of other castles. I didn't like the fact that it was free, either. This made it way too easy to reinforce troops. Nobody has pointed out that SUMMON CREATURES has made this feature obsolete, ANYWAY
Daily growth of creatures - I hated this feature, but I could always just wait until the end of the week to collect my creatures. I don't see how this feature would affect how *I* would play.
The master and grandmaster skill ranks - No thanks. It's hard enough getting the skills that I want at their proper masteries, let alone if we add more levels. The three level system is fine as it is. I mean, we already have "Ultimate" for faction-specific skills.
Heroes fight and can be killed in battles - No. This was the most imba feature ever in HOMM.
Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources - No. This eliminates the purpose of scout (snagging heroes). First come first serve is how I like it. Treat waterwheels and windmills like treasure chests that regenerate.
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking - I actually liked this feature, but I think they should remove the simultaneous animation. I think each creature should take turns in their 'attack' and 'damage' animations, then damage is applied as if they really did attack simultaneously. This was my favorite feature of HIV, and eliminated the need to have 'first strike' (like casting mass haste in HIII, and being able to attack with most of your creatures before your opponet even has a turn), and rendering 'first strike' into a true ability sported by white tigers and such.
Creatures can not be upgraded - I'm ambivalent about this one. I didn't like the fact that you could not upgrade ANY creatures, however, I liked Heroes II's system of having SOME upgrades. Even better than having upgrades is having upgrades that leve the player to determine whether on not the upgrade is better than the plain version (Archer/Marksman & Peasant/Militiaman in HV, for example.) I'm a bid undecided on this one.
Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle (i.e hydra or black dragon) - I hated this one most of all, especially because there were only four tiers to choose from. If you implement this feature, at least give us the standard 7 tiers!!!!
Nothing! heroes 4 was terrible in all aspects - Somewhat
|
|
Vicheron
Known Hero
|
|
posted July 10, 2006 07:08 AM |
|
|
It would be easy to balance heroless armies. Just add an experience requirement for heroless armies. If you have no armies, a heroless army has to have a minimum of 200 xp worth of creatures. If you have one army, a heroless army has to have a minimum of 400 xp worth of creatures. If you have two armies, a heroless army has to have a minimum of 800 xp worth of creatures. If you have three armies, a heroless army has to have a minimum of 1600 xp worth of creatures, etc. Also make it so that you can't create another army until your heroless armies meet their xp requirements.
As for creature growth, they should make it so that you get 50% of the population on the 7th day while the rest grows every day.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted July 10, 2006 10:28 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Caravans - I prefer town portal. Caravans made it too easy to protect a 'well placed' castle while ignoring the defense of other castles. I didn't like the fact that it was free, either. This made it way too easy to reinforce troops. Nobody has pointed out that SUMMON CREATURES has made this feature obsolete, ANYWAY
Eh ... no it hasn't. Summon creatures only works to the nearest town. Caravans allowed you to send creatures back and forth between towns no matter where your hero was on the map. Of course, I'd also prefer to have back the Heroes 3 Town Portal, but they have removed it - and until they give us the option to have it back, it's good to think in other lines to help out the gameplay. Caravans still required a terrible amount of waiting, but in combination with Summon Creatures, I suppose it would be better than nothing. And btw., caravans also allow you to send units from dwellings into town. Summon creatures doesn't.
|
|
G3
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted July 10, 2006 02:55 PM |
|
Edited by G3 at 14:58, 10 Jul 2006.
|
Moving creatures without heroes - Yes. Especially necessary in 5 where 7 different creatures per town combined with diplomacy/herald of death skill practically requires you to leave armies behind in order to benefit from joining troops.
Caravans - A must have: Makes handling creature buildings and multiple towns so much easier.
Again, moving creatures around in caravans also makes creature movement without heroes necessary because of restricted town slots.
Daily growth of creatures - Almost indifferent as both work, though daily growth makes waiting for week change unnecessary.
The master and grandmaster skill ranks - Yes: Adds depth and variability to heroes, like someone already stated in this thread H5 encourages to use just specific "über-skillpaths".
Heroes fight and can be killed in battles - Yes, HoMMs are games of heroes, the more they participate the better it is.
Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources - Yes. I have no bloody idea why they removed this.
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking - Yes, though this also needs a return of some unit specialties like first strike or long range. Big stacks should be vulnerable, not invulnerable.
Creatures can not be upgraded - No. More variability = better.
Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle (i.e hydra or black dragon) - Not needed with 7 different creatures per town already.
Nothing! heroes 4 was terrible in all aspects - IV > III > V.
I'd also would like to see:
- Cumulating creature buildings: One week's worth of creatures only is PITA especially without caravans or free creature movement.
- A system similar to IV with primary faction, friendly factions and opposing faction...especially the magic system.
- Line of sight, luck, morale, siege battles and tactics returned to the level of previous incarnation(s): The combat system in V is a pale shadow of what it was in IV (or even in III). The two good things it has are the initiative system and unit placement (though arbitrarily selected large creatures are very bleh not to mention squared battlefield).
- Mobile guards: Standing next to a neutral army stack looks ridiculous. 
- More spells & skills
- Fog of War
____________
|
|
Kwon
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted July 10, 2006 04:22 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Caravans: Yes, the caravans was another good thing. Again, it cuts down micromanagement, and it does make sense now they removed town portal. But better yet, bring back town portal ...
Town Portal is available at lvl 20.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted July 10, 2006 07:28 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Caravans: Yes, the caravans was another good thing. Again, it cuts down micromanagement, and it does make sense now they removed town portal. But better yet, bring back town portal ...
Town Portal is available at lvl 20.
Yeah, but only in that useless version that brings you to the nearest town only.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted July 10, 2006 07:31 PM |
|
|
|
than block the other town with heroes and its solved?
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted July 10, 2006 09:19 PM |
|
|
|
I don't think that works, unfortunately - but correct me if I'm wrong.
|
|
shassz
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted July 11, 2006 06:54 AM |
|
|
Quote:
than block the other town with heroes and its solved?
Its lame.. I want to choose the castle not buy heroes who stand in the way.
|
|
|
|
