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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 4 features to come back
Thread: Heroes 4 features to come back This thread is 10 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT»
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 27, 2006 04:22 PM

Actually, although I would really like them to allow flagging of Waterwheels and Wind Mills, I've been thinking about the thing you said about mines ...

Right now, mines provide a resource income on a daily basis. What if you could also visit the mines to collect a bonus, once a week? You know, just as if you are picking up a resource stack from the adventure map.

Alternatively, how about increasing the output from a mine by adding units to its garrison? With the garrison in place, the mine workers are not only safer from harm (bandit raids, enemy armies, hostile creatures, etc ...) but the garrison also keeps up the discipline among the miners. Thereby they increase the mines' output.

Taking this idea even further, mines should be empty when neutral. Once captured, the one controlling the mine has to buy miners to work in the mine (these are not actual units that can be moved on the map, they are just numerical representations). The more miners put to work in a mine, the bigger the output. Each mine would have a certain maximum amount of miners that can be put to work inside, an amount that is individually adjustable for each mine; extensive and deep mines can harbor more miners than a small, shallow mine.

One step further, mines could become exhausted as well, so they would have a maximum amount of resources contained inside. Once empty, the mine collapses and vanishes. With the amount of miners put to work you can adjust the speed with which you harvest the resources.

I realise that this may be a bit hard with a Saw Mill, since the woods do not vanish, or with an Alchemist Lab, though . Hey, I am just brainstorming!

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 27, 2006 04:23 PM

Quote:
I see your point alcibiades, but that is exactly why I wrote "Actually... No."

I think that you have to EARN that 1000 gold by spending your heroes move points and/or risk being attacked by enemy hero. I don't see it that windmill should get you money/resources every week just because you flagged it 3 months ago. But I don't feel strongly about it.
Unlike heroeless armies and daily growth of creatures


I think he meant that you do not want to have the micromanagement of moving all your troops around without a Hero, yet at the same time you want to get the micromanagement of having to visit the economic buildings every week with your Heroes.

That sounds like a contradiction to me too.

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zatoichi
zatoichi


Adventuring Hero
posted September 27, 2006 04:53 PM

A helluva idea Maurice
You'd have to commit your heroes to actively defend those mines and they would have the strategic significance of little towns. I already see an expansion "Mine Wars"
Actually I don't like oversimplification and wouldn't have anything against some advanced economic features  of HoMM, but only, and only if they wouldn't hamper the gameplay. ATM gameplay in HoMM5 for me is great, and I'm happy because of it

And yes, I am aware of contradiction in my reasoning, which I tried to moderate with "Actually... No."

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vigant
vigant


Adventuring Hero
posted September 27, 2006 06:18 PM

Moving creatures without heroes - Suits H4, but shouldn't be in h5
Caravans - my vote, i think this is a really good thing
Daily growth of creatures - Nice, but also suits H4, H5 should be as it is - like in H3
The master and grandmaster skill ranks - a nice thing, but i guess the skill systemis worked out and changing it would be hard. or would it?
Heroes fight and can be killed in battles - see up
Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources - i don't quite understand this
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking - no! a h4 thing! and it should stay there!
Creatures can not be upgraded - this is the dumbest thing ever in Heroes, just because they made creature choice, they thought they could remove the upgrading. well DOOOOH
Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle (i.e hydra or black dragon) - nah, h4 thing
Nothing! heroes 4 was terrible in all aspects - i guess i would have voted this if it weren't for caravans...


____________

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 27, 2006 06:33 PM

Well, caravans are making a comeback in the expansion. I kinda miss flagging wells, but you can't have everything ~~

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SoRHunter
SoRHunter


Hired Hero
posted September 27, 2006 06:35 PM
Edited by SoRHunter at 18:36, 27 Sep 2006.

Quote:
Vigant
Creatures can not be upgraded - this is the dumbest thing ever in Heroes, just because they made creature choice, they thought they could remove the upgrading. well DOOOOH

My guess is you never played Heroes of Might and Magic (the original one)...

There were no upgrading, the hero slots were 5 (while having 6 different creature's types, ie, you could not take all your creatures into battle) and it still is a great a game (too bad the imbalancing issues ).
____________

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 27, 2006 10:47 PM

Quote:
I see your point alcibiades, but that is exactly why I wrote "Actually... No."

I think that you have to EARN that 1000 gold by spending your heroes move points and/or risk being attacked by enemy hero. I don't see it that windmill should get you money/resources every week just because you flagged it 3 months ago. But I don't feel strongly about it.
Unlike heroeless armies and daily growth of creatures


Well, my point was just, when the mine brings you ressources every day, why shouldn't the Waterwheel and Windmill bring you ressources every week? They are a part of your kingdom, after all. Of course, you can say there's a difference between the two because one provides each day, and the other only each week, but logically, there's no reason what-so-ever not to make them flaggable, plus it reduces all the tedious micro-management. But each his own taste.

The ideas of populating Mines is interesting. I'm not quite sure it wouldn't scew gameplay a bit, but it would also add a nice opportunity to get hold on that Sulfur in a rush, when you *really* need it for your Devils ... Would be a bit difficult to regulate, however, I'd imagine.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 27, 2006 11:34 PM

I doubt they will make any changes to the way the Mines work in the current game, but I wouldn't be surprised if they would make some more refinements there in a future HoMM game. I would not be opposed to it, as long as something like that is properly put in place (i.e. not too much tedious micro'ing of your income).

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ggnarl
ggnarl


Hired Hero
Taxpayer
posted September 28, 2006 09:01 PM

If there was a way of giving a hero a schedule of weekly tasks (visit windmill, visit creature dwelling, etc.) that she would follow on her own, that would cut down on the micromanagement tedium without getting stuff for free (See, we can all get along! )

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 28, 2006 11:20 PM

Yeah, and then you get a Week of the Arch Devil and your treadmill Hero collecting resources from these locations runs into one of those new stacks while only having a peasant along .

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stachnie
stachnie


Known Hero
posted September 28, 2006 11:35 PM

Moving creatures without heroes: yes. I loved to send e.g. H4 bandits to collect unguarded stuff.

Caravans: definitely YES.

Daily growth of creatures: maybe yes, maybe not.

The master and grandmaster skill ranks: not bad.

Heroes fight and can be killed in battles: maybe yes. Although it added a lot of fun, the Combat skill was imbalanced. However, the possibility to prevent enemy army from fleeing by killing enemy heroes and keeping defeated heroes in prisons were cool.

Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources: I voted for that. Definitely YES.

Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking: yes.

Creatures can not be upgraded: rather not.

Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle (i.e hydra or black dragon): maybe yes, but more limited than in H4. 28 types of creatures for each town would be way too much.

Nothing! heroes 4 was terrible in all aspects: definitely NO. I like H4.


Other features:

LoS and FoW: yes. And penalty when shooting to creatures hidden behind terrain obstacles.

Multiple heroes in one army: no.


S.

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ggnarl
ggnarl


Hired Hero
Taxpayer
posted September 28, 2006 11:50 PM

It would come with risks, sure, but I think it beats having a lame hero sitting around, and every turn that annoying dialog popping up blabbing about heroes with unused movement points. And I think the AI should be smart enought to require user intervention when a scheduled hero's path gets blocked At least, I would program it that way . . .

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 29, 2006 09:08 AM

Regarding the message about unused movement points, they should bring the feature back from HoMM3, where you could "camp" your Hero. As long as the hero was in "camped" mode, the Hero would not be considered for having unused movement points. Saves you the annoyance of getting that message every turn when you have an unused Hero out in the field somewhere (which happens to me more often than I had expected).

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 29, 2006 03:03 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 15:04, 29 Sep 2006.

Yes, good point, hate that pop-up thing!

The weekly routine thing would work also, if you just made it so that the hero would always stop before any battle encounter and disrupt the routine.

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TemjinGold
TemjinGold


Known Hero
posted September 29, 2006 04:42 PM

Quote:
Regarding the message about unused movement points, they should bring the feature back from HoMM3, where you could "camp" your Hero. As long as the hero was in "camped" mode, the Hero would not be considered for having unused movement points. Saves you the annoyance of getting that message every turn when you have an unused Hero out in the field somewhere (which happens to me more often than I had expected).


You guys DO know you can turn off that annoying dialog message in the options, right? That's the first thing I did before I started playing...

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 29, 2006 05:41 PM

Yes, problem is I like the box to warn me if I accidentally hits the "Next Turn" button while me main Hero still has movement left, whereas all the other Heroes often don't matter. That was why the Sleep function worked great for me in Heroes 3.

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ggnarl
ggnarl


Hired Hero
Taxpayer
posted September 29, 2006 05:44 PM

Quote:
You guys DO know you can turn off that annoying dialog message in the options, right? That's the first thing I did before I started playing...


Yeah, I probably should, too, but I feel safer with it on Sometimes I get so involved with my main hero I neglect the others and press the end of turn button without thinking, although I haven't done it in a long time.

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godlyatheist
godlyatheist


Adventuring Hero
posted September 29, 2006 06:42 PM
Edited by godlyatheist at 18:45, 29 Sep 2006.

some heroes 3 feature

okay, how do i split a stack of creatures in heroes 5????????

also, the custom campaigns seem to include a lot of "unfair" enemies. In "an island of one's own", all the wizards have lots of mana at low level, extremely high initiative, and critical strike 100%. Can we fix this? I alway's get "gayed" by their Phatom Force/Resurrect on titans and djinns.

i went from heroes 3 to 5 and noticed all pitifully weak necropolis has became. why only 15% necromancy instead of 30%? the blacklight mod was great, but can we add Aging and more speed to the spectr dragon? it's so slow and weak with no great ability.

ya why no sleep anymore?? great function

____________
Quote:
For now most usefull is warlord and magma dragons-cast one them rune of berserking,then rune of battle rage,and the result is victory

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 29, 2006 09:18 PM

Quote:
okay, how do i split a stack of creatures in heroes 5????????

also, the custom campaigns seem to include a lot of "unfair" enemies. In "an island of one's own", all the wizards have lots of mana at low level, extremely high initiative, and critical strike 100%. Can we fix this? I alway's get "gayed" by their Phatom Force/Resurrect on titans and djinns.

i went from heroes 3 to 5 and noticed all pitifully weak necropolis has became. why only 15% necromancy instead of 30%? the blacklight mod was great, but can we add Aging and more speed to the spectr dragon? it's so slow and weak with no great ability.

ya why no sleep anymore?? great function



To split a stack hold "shift" and drag your stack to a new slot.

The necromancy skill easily reaches 30% with the special necro building.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 29, 2006 11:20 PM

Quote:
The necromancy skill easily reaches 30% with the special necro building.


Yeah, and in another topic we more or less calculated that with 30% skill, you would raise about 100% of all creatures with more than 15 HPs that died during combat. Well, excluding all the constructs and undead of course.

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