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| Thread: Heroes 4 features to come back |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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SoRHunter
Hired Hero
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posted August 31, 2007 05:12 PM |
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I'm not sure myself, it's been a while since I last played  As for upgrading why do you dislike it?
I believe that mostly is because I'm a HeroesI-kind-of-guy (the first that I played and got me hooked). There was no upgrades and, for the final battle, we had to choose one unit to stay at home (as my favourite castle was Warlock's, I used to ground the gargoyles and keep the centaurs - but not that much in a recent play through: those damn gargoyles are fast! -> My hero goes first -> Spell frenzy!  ).
When I tried Heroes II I loved the looks of it, the increase in the number of different castles, the music and new buildings. Then, as I played Warlock, I went for Black Dragons. Wait! There were no Blackies around!  Just some Green wannabies! And then I discovered I had to upgrade them. "Good!" I thought... until I used a lot more gold and resources to get... a Red Dragon!?  And then I had to used more gold and more resources to (finally!) get the so-much-desired-and-feared Black Dragon. I guess it was the death of my will to get upgrades (the Minotaur King was cool looking though).
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted August 31, 2007 05:14 PM |
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Queen hits pawn. Queen has higher attack, defence, damage, hit points,... than pawn. Queen does 1000 damage to pawn, while pawn does 1 damage to queen. Pawn dies and queen lives (except if she were terribly wounded to the last hit point, where both queen and pawn die  ).
No offense intended by I think you misunderstand the meaning of "TURN BASED strategy game." xD If I wanted creatures to strike each other simultaneously I'd downl--.. buy, a real time strategy game.
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SoRHunter
Hired Hero
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posted August 31, 2007 06:04 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Queen hits pawn. Queen has higher attack, defence, damage, hit points,... than pawn. Queen does 1000 damage to pawn, while pawn does 1 damage to queen. Pawn dies and queen lives (except if she were terribly wounded to the last hit point, where both queen and pawn die ).
No offense intended by I think you misunderstand the meaning of "TURN BASED strategy game." xD If I wanted creatures to strike each other simultaneously I'd downl--.. buy, a real time strategy game.
No offence taken. I advise on choosing Command & Conquer: Generals + Zero Hour expansion, Warcraft III and Starcraft. Age of Empires II + Conquerors expansion is also a great game. 
Back to the old turn based strategy: ever tried Civilization? There, you get to use all your units available before the enemy gets a shot at you (ie, move its units as well). In heroes, you get two distinct phases: one where you move the heroes around the map, collecting stuff, flagging mines, visiting castles and entering combat; the other one is combat itself, where the fastest units get to act first, regardless of who is the active player. If I would stretch your comments to the limit, you would rather the enemy not to fight (because it's not its turn) or not to retaliate (again, it's not its turn). At the very least, you should move all your units before your enemy gets going! Do you think these were better ideas for combat?
In any game, you have to concede something. You are limited by a set of rules, which tell you what you can and can't do. You like 'I get to go first' best; I enjoy 'simultaneous retaliations' the most. Neither of us is wrong! We just have different thoughts and preferences.  And I like turn based strategy games. 
EDIT: typos 
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted August 31, 2007 07:18 PM |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 01, 2007 12:56 PM |
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Quote:
Then, look the other way round: who said a simple pawn couldn't kill a queen?
Yes, simultaneous attacks are more realistic - but also less fun. That's just wat's my point.
And yes, if the 500 Peasants get to move and attack, they should kill my Queen Archangel, that's where the strategy part comes in: Being able to avoid them of getting that possibility. In Heroes 3/5, I can do so by planning my moves and turns, in Heroes 4 I could only do that by using proper spells. That's less challenging to me ...
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What will happen now?
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Vercinorix
Hired Hero
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posted September 01, 2007 02:42 PM |
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Hello everyone, new poster here.
I started playing the HOMM series with HOMM3, and was hooked. I've played HOMM3, HOMM4 and HOMM5 (all expansions of each except the HOMM3 scenario-only packs.)
I actually think that HOMM5 is closer to HOMM4 than HOMM3, except for some obvious elements that are retro to HOMM3.
I actually was one of those people who really liked HOMM4, and preferred it over HOMM3. The reason being that I believe that the overall faction balancing was better in HOMM4 than in HOMM3. I know that the creatures in HOMM4 were not very balanced, but in my experience if you were dealing with any map size large enough to give you time to fully develop your heroes and towns the only viable factions in HOMM3 were Conflux and the regular human town (I forget the name of it, bear with me because I'm dealing with a serious lack of sleep here )
The reason for this statement was given equal army sizes and equal attack/defense stats, whoever got to cast the first spell and get Expert Haste off first usually won the decisive meeting of main heroes... and that was determined by the speed of the fastest unit in your army. HOMM4 changed this by giving seperate stats of speed and init for each unit, as well as giving heroes their own init. Plus, each faction was reworked to focus on different specializations which tended to work overall in allowing each to be competitive.
For me, HOMM3 wound up being reduced to a formula... always taking the same set of skills and using the same spells each battle. Since the batles rarely lasted longer than 2 rounds the combat spells I used could be numbered on the fingers of one hand... either Expert Haste or Slow followed by (if necessary) Expert Bless or Prayer. That got pretty boring.
HOMM4 was a departure from HOMM3 (and apparently the previous versions as well given the comments I've heard) in that the options for play on the strategic map were a lot more wide open and required more thought.
When I read articles saying that HOMM5 was basically going back to the spirit of HOMM3 I was uneasy because I really didn't want to see the series go backward in gameplay, but I was pleasantly surprised to see that most of the gameplay improvements, fixes, and spirit of HOMM4 was there with only a few HOMM3 retro elements put back, like the removal of the hero from the battlefield and no longer having simultaneous damage resolution.
I understand that having the hero on the battlefield really bothered a lot of people, but I felt that it added a good strategic element and allowed a defender to have a chance to defend a city with inferior forces by focusing everything they had on trying to kill the enemy hero(s), since an army without a hero could not capture a city. Killing heroes wasn't that easy though... I usually had 2 heroes per army, one a might hero that focused on the Combat skill first in order to make him a LOT harder to kill and a caster hero in support. That strategy usually worked well.
Anyway, in HOMM5 the spell system, skill system, artifacts, faction balancing and a good bit of the combat system are all closer to the way it was done in HOMM4 than in HOMM3 and IMO that is a good thing.
Oh yeah, I guess I should also say something about the features that I would like to see come back. =)
1) I am in favor of anything that reduces needless micromanagement like flagged resource generators. There is really no good reason NOT to make that resource collection automatic.
2) Option to decline at Witch huts. If I don't want the skill, I shouldn't have to take it. Sending scouts to check out each Witch hut first is a pain in the derriere.
3) The current HOMM5 caravan system is close but not quite right. You should have the option of making a caravan of units already bought to garrison a city. Being forced to make caravans ONLY directly from the generators is dumb.
4) More artifact slots per hero please. Being forced to swap out money bags and +knowledge gear each turn is just annoying and a waste of time.
5) Option to sell artifacts. Having dozens of them in your backpack that you're not going to use wastes space and time and you might as well be able to convert the spares to cash.
That's all for now.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 01, 2007 03:16 PM |
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Welcome I agree with many of the things you said apart from the H4 balance, it had huge exploits that I won't get into. The reason I love H5 is exactly because of the H3 style along with some of the newer H4 features that most people fail to see. Most of the important things are there, the rest is up to personal taste.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Vercinorix
Hired Hero
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posted September 01, 2007 03:24 PM |
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Hi Elvin.
I didn't mean to suggest that HOMM4 was perfect. It sure wasn't... there were plenty of problems with it that I found.
I just felt that compared to HOMM3 it was much LESS broken.
What I was glad to see was a lot of the good tweaking that happened as part of HOMM4 was carried into HOMM5 (and seemingly mostly unnoticed by reviewers).
Hope that clarifies things.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted September 01, 2007 05:52 PM |
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I think tradition is more important at this point than functionality.
Also, V, awesome name, have you read Druids?
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 01, 2007 07:02 PM |
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Yeah I understood your point. Btw your name reminds me of Vercingetorix with fewer letters 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Vercinorix
Hired Hero
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posted September 01, 2007 11:31 PM |
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Ah, well the story behind Vercinorix is that about 6 years ago I started playing a MMO called Dark Age of Camelot and made a Celt Ranger as my first character.
I was trying for Vercingetorix but the name filter wouldn't allow it so the closest I was able to come was Vercinorix.
I don't think I've read Druids yet either... who is it by? I'm assuming that it has something to do with the Celts or you wouldn't have mentioned it, right? 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 01, 2007 11:33 PM |
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So maybe you are an Asterix fan?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Vercinorix
Hired Hero
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posted September 01, 2007 11:43 PM |
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Yes I read a lot of the Asterix comics when I was in lower grade school. The school library had them.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 02, 2007 12:06 AM |
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Nice, Goscini was a smart and humorous man. As for the druids things are pretty much how they are portrayed on Asterix. They were keepers or lore, carried sickles etc.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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dale
Known Hero
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posted September 02, 2007 03:45 AM |
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HOMM4 features I miss
I just came up against another feature in HOMM5 that is changed from HOMM4, and has impact on the way I play the game. The feature is limiting number of heros to four (or so it seems?). I am playing in the Warlock part 2, with a big huge map. On such maps in the past I used to buy loads of heros what had benefit to the group, such as estates. I would train them by moving in groups of 4-7 lords, collecting free bonuses until their estate value got high. Maybe I'd let them travel with a big dragon or bunch to hit small stacks of neutrals and gain experience that way. Then when they were developed to my satisfaction, I'd park them hidden in some castle.
I just had to turn down a level 11 warlock in the tavern
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Grey Beards of the world, Unite :-}}
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted September 02, 2007 05:35 AM |
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I think that's why they changed it: to avoid spaming estates and other things like that.
Also, Druids is a book I am reading right now, about the original Vercingetorix, king of some tribe of Celts, told from the perspective of his best friend (although the book makes them seem gay!) a Druid.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted September 02, 2007 06:52 AM |
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As far as I know the hero limit is 8.
I've never had a problem getting 8. Did you notice the cost goes up per hero? So if you're on hero number 5 it would cost something like 5,000 gold.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted September 02, 2007 06:58 AM |
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There might be something about only buying so many per day.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Fofa
Famous Hero
Famous? Me?!
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posted September 02, 2007 08:07 AM |
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Just inserting my two cents: Note that I haven't played Heroes IV at all, so I might be a bit biased.
Moving creatures without heroes: Primarily used as scouts and distractions if an enemy hero comes along, but that's about it, in terms of players using this.
Caravans: Very useful for when your hero needs to get backup from a far-away distance. Or anywhere, really.
Daily growth of creatures: If you let the creatures gather up, and with daily growth added, you have one hefty price tag on the creatures, so basically you'd have to buy creatures everyday.
The master and grandmaster skill ranks: Basically, from what I see from this, is making a skill go overkill when it was just fine with the three levels. These skills can wreck a game if used correctly.
Heroes fight and can be killed in battles: . . .No. Heroes are generally riding on the horses and in charge of the army. If the commander was killed, then what would you do?
Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources: I might need someone to clarify this for me.
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking: There go a lot of my attack patterns. . .It would make attack without casualties much more difficult to accomplish.
Creatures cannot be upgraded: Most people seem to forget that there was one other Heroes game that didn't have creature upgrades: Heroes I. Granted, that was what started the Heroes games (or King's Bounty), so that one is forgiven. Heroes II had a bit of it as well (i.e Unicorns received no upgrades).
For me, it depends on the creature: if the upgrade improves the original in many way, I'll upgrade it. If the upgrade costs too much for so little improvement, then it's generally ignored.
Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle: Ehh. . .I'm more used to having just one creature, but the idea can add strategic value. However, it can only really work properly if the two creatures are balanced: the Cyclops/Ogre Mage proves this point.
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Creator of the Guild and Prison towns for ICTC.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted September 02, 2007 09:33 AM |
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Edited by Azagal at 09:34, 02 Sep 2007.
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Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources: I might need someone to clarify this for me.
You know the waterwheels and windmills and the garden of the weefolk, right? You allways have to go there once a week to get your ressources but if you would be able to flag them you would recive the ressources at the beginning of each week.
Flaged weekly generators work just like mines except that you get your stuff weekly not daily.
Personally I wouldn't want any feature from H4 to come back that isn't allready in the game (like the caravans)... I think H4 was an total catastrophy but well that's just me.
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