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| Thread: Zombies improvements |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted July 25, 2006 09:14 PM |
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The aura idea for a stench sounds nice, but I would then put it in the realm of disease, not poison. Call it nausea for all I care  , but when units that rely on air to breathe are getting close to a Zombie stack, the stench reduces their effectiveness in battle (reduction in initiative, reduction in their attack and defense scores, perhaps movement speed as well). This effect persists like say 3 turns until after the disease cloud has been cleared. The reduction could be a percentile based on stack size, kinda like spellpower for casters is determined on stack size.
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covert-one
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 26, 2006 09:11 AM |
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dfortae this is a great idea indeed!!!
This is what the zombies are really screaming for Giving them sort of desease aura will make a greater use of them.
Altough the aura effect is about to be discussed, i think it will be great to see such an improvement on the poor hungry zombies
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phoenixzs
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 26, 2006 10:32 AM |
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As for skeleton archers thing:Somebody suggested what U would exactly suggest raising packages of creatures like skeletons+zombies+specters.I wouldnt have included wampires but anyway good idea.As for raising counterparts I now it seems logical but in the name of game balance its too unpredictable in my opinion.
As for zombies:I like the poision aura thing.Maybe some "overwhelming" ability should also be introduced.Zombies should give -%10 initiative to the creatures they double in with their number cumulatively.Which means if a creature stays in the aura too long it will receive say in 3 turns %30 reduction in iniitative.
Personally the wraith and the bony should be reworked in necropolis.Its just not so logical to play with only one stack of skeletons.And when they die there is nearly no replacement.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 27, 2006 09:24 AM |
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Phoenixsz > As for the idea of raising Skeletons + Zombies + Ghosts (+ Vampires) it should be dependant on your Necromancy level, and you would only raise Vampires with Ultimate Necromancy, which means it effectively would be unimportant gamewise.
I think the Aura Of Disease around the Zombies would make very good sense - after all, they are surrounded by that cloud of flies and bugs, who knows what they'll carry on to those who come too close to them? The effect should not be too powerfull, but possibly something which happens multiple times and then stacks would make sense - so if you stand besides them for many rounds, it'll give you problems. That would also give you a motivation to take them out quickly, which would make them serve their role as meat shields much better.
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted July 27, 2006 12:39 PM |
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I think zombies need to be nerfed!
Also, skeletons archers needs to be stronger!
I think vampires should be able to make new vampires out of blood!
Liches should be able to cast a random destructive damage spell (not including armageddon)!
Spectral dragon should have a 5% chance to turn the stack it hits into ghosts! (or spectral dragons if its a 7th) that then fight for the necromancer!!
To balance this out, Archangels should ressurect themselves like phoenixes after 5 turns, cavaliers should have a piercing attack with 5% chance to kill the stack outright like deathstrike!! Imperial griffons have a 5% chance to go to the "griffons nest" and summon down another equal stack of griffons to fight for the haven! Squires suck! - Their attack is upped now to 15, and they have speed 10 as well as "rush strike" where they run to the other side and crack heads !!
The other towns get similar boosts.. titans thunder spell has 5% chance of casint chain lighintin of EVERY unit of the opponent!! Mages can 5% chance to make an emeny stack vanish intio thin air til after all the other enemy stacks are dead. Gremilns can steal gold from the opponent!!
Etc..
brilliant!
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caligno
Hired Hero
If zombies only had brains
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posted July 27, 2006 01:41 PM |
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Quote:
I think zombies need to be nerfed!
Also, skeletons archers needs to be stronger!
I think vampires should be able to make new vampires out of blood!
Liches should be able to cast a random destructive damage spell (not including armageddon)!
Spectral dragon should have a 5% chance to turn the stack it hits into ghosts! (or spectral dragons if its a 7th) that then fight for the necromancer!!
To balance this out, Archangels should ressurect themselves like phoenixes after 5 turns, cavaliers should have a piercing attack with 5% chance to kill the stack outright like deathstrike!! Imperial griffons have a 5% chance to go to the "griffons nest" and summon down another equal stack of griffons to fight for the haven! Squires suck! - Their attack is upped now to 15, and they have speed 10 as well as "rush strike" where they run to the other side and crack heads !!
The other towns get similar boosts.. titans thunder spell has 5% chance of casint chain lighintin of EVERY unit of the opponent!! Mages can 5% chance to make an emeny stack vanish intio thin air til after all the other enemy stacks are dead. Gremilns can steal gold from the opponent!!
Etc..
brilliant!
Sarcasm aside...
I think the minor improvement suggested for Zombies would work very well. As for the Necromany upgrades, I don't know if it's too late to redo the system however if you can raise more than just skeletons (which would make sense logically) it would lower the number of skeleton archers you get per battle and thus lower the overall ammount a necro can get in a game, which should help solve some of the thousand+ stacks of archers end game.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 28, 2006 08:49 AM |
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Yes, I think that was the idea, Caligno. And Bjørn, if you don't care about the discussion, why not just stay out of it ... Or add something a bit more usefull other than plain sarcasm? 
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted July 30, 2006 10:35 PM |
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Actually zombies are pretty good this game... maybe even too good for their name.
Very good meatshields, great to protect skeleton archers. Of course, mainly against the neutrals. But in the first fight they help much.
I figure you guys just don't know how to use them.
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Yes, I play the game only on the forums.
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caligno
Hired Hero
If zombies only had brains
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posted July 31, 2006 01:09 AM |
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Quote:
Actually zombies are pretty good this game... maybe even too good for their name.
Very good meatshields, great to protect skeleton archers. Of course, mainly against the neutrals. But in the first fight they help much.
I figure you guys just don't know how to use them.
I know how to use them perfectly fine, they're just not useful outside fighting AI. An actualy player has no reason to attack a zombie until all other units are dead. That's why we're proposing a slight improvement to them, like I said earlier; stat wise they're not bad, theres just no reason to attack them thus making them poor meatshields outside of AI battles.
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G3
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 31, 2006 05:43 PM |
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I like Zombies the way they are...just add 1 to weekly base growth and possibly throw in Zombie Lord necromancer specialty which, if taken, replaces Skeleton Archers.
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fishjie
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 01, 2006 03:03 AM |
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lol
i havent played heroes 5 necro yet as im still doing the campaign, but wouldnt it be funny if the necromancy skill raised ONLY zombies? talk about a necro nerfing.
zombies. one of the classic instances of a level 2 creature being way worse than the level 1 creature.
oh and ps: cloak of undead king was BROKEN. the levels with sandro were a JOKE as a result.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 01, 2006 09:25 AM |
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zombies are meant to shield skellie archers when creeping, that's all. No need for any improvements, they are similiar to horned overseers and worthless just like them.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 02, 2006 09:06 AM |
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Quote:
zombies are meant to shield skellie archers when creeping, that's all. No need for any improvements, they are similiar to horned overseers and worthless just like them.
In other words, I'd say that Horned Overseers need a (minor) overhaul as well . Looking at the Tier-2 creatures for each town, we see ...
Haven: Archers / Marksmen
Sylvan: Blade Dancers / War Dancers
Academy: Gargoyles / Obsidian Gargoyles
Dungeon: Blood Maidens / Blood Furies
Inferno: Overseers / Horned Overseers
Necropolis: Zombies / Plague Zombies
You could place your question marks at the low HPs for the Blood Maidens (causing them to die in masses), or the overall low DPS for Gargoyles, but they are still fairly useful, for the tier they're in. Overseers and Zombies are definately sub-par compared to the other four.
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hobowu
Known Hero
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posted August 02, 2006 09:36 AM |
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I think they should bring the disease ability from H3 back in (you guys know the one that looks like implosion?... i'm not exactly sure what it does...but yeh, i think it might reduce one of your stats, or maybe make you lose some health)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 02, 2006 11:45 AM |
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the disease ability is here.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 02, 2006 12:45 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
zombies are meant to shield skellie archers when creeping, that's all. No need for any improvements, they are similiar to horned overseers and worthless just like them.
In other words, I'd say that Horned Overseers need a (minor) overhaul as well . Looking at the Tier-2 creatures for each town, we see ...
Haven: Archers / Marksmen
Sylvan: Blade Dancers / War Dancers
Academy: Gargoyles / Obsidian Gargoyles
Dungeon: Blood Maidens / Blood Furies
Inferno: Overseers / Horned Overseers
Necropolis: Zombies / Plague Zombies
You could place your question marks at the low HPs for the Blood Maidens (causing them to die in masses), or the overall low DPS for Gargoyles, but they are still fairly useful, for the tier they're in. Overseers and Zombies are definately sub-par compared to the other four.
You can't compare factions on a level-for-level basis. They are not supposed to be equally powerfull on each level, for instance, the Necropolis has a wasted level 2 (and level 3 and level 7) unit, but has an above average level 1 (due to numbers), level 4, level 5 and level 6 (on the paper at least) unit. Likewise, the Inferno has a sub-average level 2 unit, but has above average level 1 and ... ehh, well, the Inferno units generally just suck, but I suppose gating was supposed to help them out on that.
The Haven level 2 unit is above average, but makes up for a crappy level 1 unit and a very deffensive level 3 and 5 unit. The Academy obviously has a very deffensive level 2 unit to ballance their very aggressive level 1, 4, 5, 6 and 7 units, and the Dungeon Blood Maiden obviously has to have low HP to make up for blazing initiative, excellent movement boosted by strike and return and no retaliation!
All in all, I think it's very deliberate that they made the Zombies poor units. However, they could need something to merit their expense, like an aura that would affect units surrounding them.
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hobowu
Known Hero
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posted August 02, 2006 02:02 PM |
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I understand the need to make some units very poor, but they shouldn't actually be useless... like our zombies and horned overseers...even gargoyles are actually good at absorbing retaliation...
The ghost in necropolis isn't actually useless... i find it VERY VERY annoying when i miss 4 times in a row on them... I like that attacking action too  .... rush into them... looks so cute
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caligno
Hired Hero
If zombies only had brains
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posted August 02, 2006 02:18 PM |
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Quote:
The ghost in necropolis isn't actually useless... i find it VERY VERY annoying when i miss 4 times in a row on them... I like that attacking action too .... rush into them... looks so cute
I actually like the ghost/spectre as well, generally i'll aim for a unit that has mana with them so they cain regain most of the health they lose on the way accross the field. Granted if they do get hit you lose a lot but it certainly compensates for the 50% incorporeal ability.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 02, 2006 03:58 PM |
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Quote:
ehh, well, the Inferno units generally just suck, but I suppose gating was supposed to help them out on that.
Bullsnow. Inferno units are very good, sometimes even the best of their level (Nightmares, Familiars..) and they are augumented greatly with demonlord's skills like hellfire. They can do wonders even without gating.
Units that are "strong on paper" NEVER work, that's why dungeon units generally suck. 
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 02, 2006 04:47 PM |
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Well, that goes well to prove my point, then. The Horned Demon sucks because the Imp and Nightmare is above level. (I still think the Nightmare is ... not the best ... level 5 unit, but never mind that).
And personally, I think the Dungeon units works fine for me ... Combo of Assassins + Blood Furies + Grim Raiders + Black Dragons =
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