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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: DemonLord Skills
Thread: DemonLord Skills This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Izzachar
Izzachar


Adventuring Hero
posted July 26, 2006 01:41 AM
Edited by Izzachar at 22:08, 26 Jul 2006.

DemonLord Skills

Chances off getting different skills each lv.

Main Skills
Logistics: 19%
Attack: 15%
Warmachines: 13%

Secondary Skills
Destructive Magic: 10%
Sorccery: 9%
Dark Magic: 8%
Luck: 8%
Defense: 8%

Rare Skills
Light Magic: 2.5%
Summoning Magic: 2.5%
Leadership: 2.5%
Enlightment: 2.5%

Calculations based on three different heroes tested 10 times each with exp_cheat. Wich gives about [edit:] 450 values to calculate on.

Having this in mind you can base your tactics around the main skills. Or take one off the main skills as early as possible to increase you chances off getting a secondary one.

Never count on getting a rare skill.

Inferno having Warmachines can bee seen in two ways.

1. Big chance off getting early when its best might be a good idea to consider it when leveling upp, not only deleb benefits from this skill.

2. If you are not playing deleb it will be in you skill list quite often and it will hinder you from getting secondary skills

------------------------------------------------------------------------
And just a side note:

Lookin at my results I cant help to think what if..
All factions have one major skill? For inferno logistics ~20% also the skill wich has one off the most beneficial abilities for that faction -> swift gating.

have two/three major skills with ~15% chance to be in skill list.

5 secondary skills ~10%

and 4 rare skills ~2.5%

However its way to late and Im way to tired to give it anymore testing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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juventas
juventas


Adventuring Hero
posted July 26, 2006 03:43 AM

Wow, you are dedicated.  Thanks!
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scooter_me
scooter_me


Adventuring Hero
posted July 26, 2006 04:57 AM

man u just turned what me and haldowin did in the "heroes with set upgrade paths to dust...

i wish i knew the probability of dungeon heroes getting lgositics... but from past experiance i already know its quite low .

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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 26, 2006 10:15 AM

Thanks Izzachar!

But I am curious how you leveled up the heroes? Always a previous skill to Expert and then a new one? Also, what starting skills the Demonlords have, that surely affects outcome. Because only the Skills offered as Basic should be counted.

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rainalcar
rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted July 26, 2006 10:20 AM

This is an excellent info. This kind of stuff is always helpful.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted July 26, 2006 12:41 PM

Quote:
Thanks Izzachar!

But I am curious how you leveled up the heroes? Always a previous skill to Expert and then a new one? Also, what starting skills the Demonlords have, that surely affects outcome. Because only the Skills offered as Basic should be counted.


Maybe we'll get the true percentages when map editor comes out and we lvl up heroes with no starting skills.Anyway the results can't be much different,good job Izzachar!
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hellwitch
hellwitch


Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
posted July 26, 2006 01:33 PM

good info but i wonder what are the true values?

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Haldowan
Haldowan


Adventuring Hero
posted July 26, 2006 07:53 PM

Great work, I hope we will have a list for all factions and put all data in the same topic. Inferno is done, I'm working on Haven, scooter_me on Dungeon. Sylvan, Necropolis and Academy should follow.

I have one big question, all you've done is correct but can you please tell us which heroes did you use ? Why ? Because I'm trying to know if heroes really are specialized. I have some case where even if both heroes doesn't know a skill, each have a better chance of learning particular skill. Maybe it's just how the test was done, 50 isn't really a big number for stats and it may still be in the standard variation around the true average value.

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Izzachar
Izzachar


Adventuring Hero
posted July 26, 2006 09:51 PM
Edited by Izzachar at 22:09, 26 Jul 2006.

Off course.

I was thinking about if heroes could have somewhat set paths. Like if alastor (startw with sorccery) would have higher chances getting dark magic and marbas (starts with defense) getting luck (for magic resistance)

I used Deleb (warmachines) as she is one off the most used heroes.
Alastor for my own interest in getting him dark magic
and Marbas for someone who starts with something different and also to see wether he would have higher chances off getting luck since he would benefit alot from this.

I should have tried with the succubus hero aswell since she also starts with sorccery and it would be nice to compare towards alastor but the other heroes I tried seemd not to differ in any noticeable way so I didnt bother and ended my test there.

I only counted basic skills.

I lvled all heroes upp to lv 11 when leveling I only choose the advanced expert and abilities from the starting skills and only counted new basic skills. This means that I couldnt count a % in warmachines for deleb but I did it from the other to. And vice versa with sorccery and defense. When leveling to lv 11 I dont have to make complicated calculations when I choose a new skill. Only the skill that the hero starts with cant be calculated with that hero.

Skills appearing two times from lv 2-11 where counted 2 times off course.

I leveld upp all heroes 10 times each.

There could be one flaw here...  if some skills are offerd more often then others at later lvs.

I could draw no conclusions whatsoever about heroes having different paths.

Alastor seemd to get warmachines the most though. probably just by chance.
Dark magic was equal values off all heroes.
Marbas where offerd more Logistics then average but I think its a coinsidence just as alastor with warmachines.
Destructive magic was also offerd a bit more often then dark magic.
Marbas did get luck more often then the others but he also got more off all other secondary skills. He got a little less war and attack.
Deleb had somehwat more rare and secondary skills abilities but I think its because off one thing - she allready had war machines wich left some place over for other skills, her attack and logistics were still high %.

All values were pretty balanced among all heroes. Nothing sticking out in comparison. Logistics was always in top closely followed by attack and warmachines. The rare abilities were always rare.

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Izzachar
Izzachar


Adventuring Hero
posted July 26, 2006 09:52 PM

And another thing I can do necropolis aswell cause I know that faction.

Other factions I leave for someone else.

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Betruger
Betruger


Known Hero
empowered mind
posted July 26, 2006 09:54 PM

Quote:
Calculations based on three different heroes tested 10 times each with exp_cheat. Wich gives about 450 skill choices.


Then I guess your numbers must be wrong.
What I mean is if you get expert logisctics for example on first 3 lvl ups then automatically other skills are bound to appear with increased probability, as there is less of them to choose from.

So in order to make a precise test you'd have to note what skill chocices do you get when leveling from level 1 to level 2. But that's also would not be precies as different heros start with different initial skills.

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Izzachar
Izzachar


Adventuring Hero
posted July 26, 2006 10:05 PM
Edited by Izzachar at 22:07, 26 Jul 2006.

I mean I did it 10 times with every hero.

I lvd every hero upp to lv 11 * 10 times.
Lvd to lv 11. restart. lvd to lv 11 restart.

And I only lved upp the starting skill and the racial skill + the abilities.

First I lvd upp the starting skills then abilities. So when lvling abilities I would always get two new basic choices.

So it was only the starting skill that would set the values off.

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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 27, 2006 12:28 AM
Edited by Shauku83 at 00:34, 27 Jul 2006.

I tested with leveling only from level 1 to 2, I did that 112 times using each Inferno hero. On my calculations I ignored starting skills, so Destructive Magics probability is calculated on all other heroes level-ups than Grawls, Warmachines using statistics from all other Heroes than Deleb etc.

On the first Inferno level up, Attack seems to be clearly above all other skills. Logistics, Destructive, Dark and Luck are no surprises, since those skills seem very familiar when comparing to ingame experince. Warmachines was offered every tenth time, an averageWhat surprised was that defence is rarer than I though, a point for Marbas for starting with that one.


Attack..........27,5%        

--------------------

Logistics.........14,5%
Destructive......13,5%        
Dark...............12,5%        
Luck...............12%
Warmachines...10%
Sorcery...........8,5%  

--------------------

Defence...........5%
Enlightenment...3,5%        
Summoning.......3%            
Light..............2,5%
Leadership.......1%

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GullyNita
GullyNita


Adventuring Hero
Archer of Heavens
posted July 27, 2006 12:35 AM

ya ya ya

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted July 27, 2006 12:55 AM

Quote:
I tested with leveling only from level 1 to 2, I did that 112 times using each Inferno hero. On my calculations I ignored starting skills, so Destructive Magics probability is calculated on all other heroes level-ups than Grawls, Warmachines using statistics from all other Heroes than Deleb etc.

On the first Inferno level up, Attack seems to be clearly above all other skills. Logistics, Destructive, Dark and Luck are no surprises, since those skills seem very familiar when comparing to ingame experince. Warmachines was offered every tenth time, an averageWhat surprised was that defence is rarer than I though, a point for Marbas for starting with that one.


Attack..........27,5%        

--------------------

Logistics.........14,5%
Destructive......13,5%        
Dark...............12,5%        
Luck...............12%
Warmachines...10%
Sorcery...........8,5%  

--------------------

Defence...........5%
Enlightenment...3,5%        
Summoning.......3%            
Light..............2,5%
Leadership.......1%



Your calculations are indeed a bit different than Izzachar's and seem more familiar to my ingame experience.That's the good thing with demon lords-all important skills are easy to obtain within the first levels.Alas for leadership though
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phoenixzs
phoenixzs


Adventuring Hero
posted July 27, 2006 03:51 PM

calculations are probably true and I want to say something about the warmachines.
Since its one of the core skills of the deamon lords,I cant understand that why there isnt a good special skill coming with it for deamon lords.Definiately some fire damage bonus to balista could fit well but what do we got?Triple catapult and earthquake.I say omit the earthquake and give something to the balista.Like ignoring enemy defense for example(it should require a lot ofcourse)or some other stuff that can be used actually on "normal" battlefield.I find it quire fair for such level investment in that skill.Afterall it should also be good at late game too.

And generaly for investers of warmachines,the healing tent amount of hitpoints should raise with hero knowledge and advancede war machines should give an additional healing round while expert should give another additional healing round.

By the way what is the use of elemental balance now when the raising elemental skill got nerfed?I think that skill should also block raise dead+resurrection and repair.That way it could be only worth getting and concentrating on it.

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Izzachar
Izzachar


Adventuring Hero
posted July 27, 2006 04:36 PM
Edited by Izzachar at 20:54, 27 Jul 2006.

Hmm very intresting that you got so different results from me.

Could there be a difference in probability off getting certain skills depending on lv?

In my experience I rarely get dark and destructive magic offerd. I more often get logistics and attack for choices. I myself was somewhat suprised about the warmachines skill beeing so high in my test cause I never thought about it before. Maybe its because I rarely take it and its just another "useless" skill passing by when leveling upp.

Quote:
.....the warmachines.
Since its one of the core skills of the deamon lords,I cant understand that why there isnt a good special skill coming with it for deamon lords......



I agree warmachines abilities could need a buff. Ballista I dont know since Deleb allready is pretty good with it making it better would make an overpowered hero I think. The stunning off earthquake spell sucks though. Maybe something that helps against moats etc?

* Not getting stuck in except first time.
* Not loosing initiative when moving on it just get the damage then move on, like a firetrap.
* Taking only half damage from them.

Or something else tremors isnt a nice skill at all.


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Izzachar
Izzachar


Adventuring Hero
posted July 27, 2006 05:39 PM
Edited by Izzachar at 20:47, 27 Jul 2006.

Necropolis Skills %

Necropolis % getting different skills on lv upp. Based on my own calculations.


------------------------]
Dark Magic 19%
Sorcery 15%
Summoning magic 14%
------------------------]
Defense 13%
Attack 11%
Enlightment 10%
Logistics 10%
Destructive Magic 8%
------------------------]
Leadership 3%
Luck 3%
Warmachines 3%
Light Magic 2%
------------------------]


note: values might not be completely correct. I lvd upp Kaspar, vladimir and Lucretia 10 times each to lv 11 and counted how many times the different skills appeard.

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Betruger
Betruger


Known Hero
empowered mind
posted July 29, 2006 02:16 AM

according to some russian site Ghasteater directed me to the precentages are as follows:

http://www.heroes.ag.ru/heroes5/heroes/

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Izzachar
Izzachar


Adventuring Hero
posted July 29, 2006 02:40 AM
Edited by Izzachar at 02:42, 29 Jul 2006.

Cool. tnx for link.

Wow my inferno % was pretty close

Necropolis was a bit off though

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