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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Haven's Retaliation Strike? How to make use of it?
Thread: Haven's Retaliation Strike? How to make use of it?
simplykid
simplykid

Tavern Dweller
posted August 03, 2006 01:42 PM

Haven's Retaliation Strike? How to make use of it?

I'm always a big fan of human-race in heroes, though i also like the mage-race for it's highest lv army, Titan's long ranged attack..

Back to the topic, the ultimate skill of Haven is Unstoppable charge,
but it has relation with the Retaliation Strike skill.

But I don't understand how it works??
And how can i make the best use and take advantages of the skill??

Somehow, what i know the skill works when targeted units were attacked, but if you play against human players, they will just deny the units and attack other units, and it will be one wasted hero's turn. And the skill   only for one units stack and only lasts for one turn(correct me if i'm wrong).

That's why, eventhough that's not the main advantage of human race ability(it's Training what i know from other threads), i still want to make use of all the skill the race has, moreover, the ultimate skill has something to do with Retaliation skill.

So, can anyone help me giving me the strategy,hinst,tricks,tips or anything besides the cheat to really make the best use of it?

For the attention,
THX

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SuperDave9x19
SuperDave9x19


Adventuring Hero
posted August 03, 2006 02:12 PM

well, being denied an attack in fear of a retaliation strike seems a pretty good passive defense.

I typically use this coverring skill when I finally charge in with Cav/Paladins so they have one round of protection.  the problem with this is that you use retaliation strike to cover a unit who is going where good sense tells you not to go.

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God2
God2


Adventuring Hero
Your benevolent deity
posted August 03, 2006 02:23 PM
Edited by God2 at 19:29, 04 Aug 2006.

If I am not mistaken, the ability lasts until the hero's next turn, meaning you can get more than one attack out of it each time you use it. (this is how the Demon Lord's similar ability works at least)
This means that it is very useful to use on surrounded units or units that are susceptible to being attacked a lot.

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caligno
caligno


Hired Hero
If zombies only had brains
posted August 03, 2006 03:02 PM

Retalitation strike is definetly a situational ability, it does good damage when the hero is of decent level. That being said, retaliation strike isn't the racial ability of haven, its more comparable to Banshee howl, in the sense that its a combat abililty that uses no mana.  But again, banshee howl affects all non-undead, non mechanical enemies where as retaliation strike only affects your one unit.

Its one of those things thats useful in certain situations, I personally find it more useful after casting the more beneficial spells (blessings, haste, etc.) and I am out of mana, especially earlier in a map when mana levels are lower. Really the best way to use it is more of a defensive move than offensive.  

Put it on a unit that you think will get attacked a lot (a paladin that charges into enemy lines, or a gryphon for that matter), its also a good idea to put it on a unit that has decent defense/health, its very annying to put it on a unit only to have the unit die before all the retaliation strikes could have been performed.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted August 03, 2006 03:05 PM

It's just a weaker version of mark of the damned.I am not sure how different they are in terms of damage(I certainly know mark of the damned hurts) but the way they work is a bit different making ret strike inferior of the two.Where MotD targets one creature and can yield
up to two free attacks,one when it attacks and another when it retaliates(more if it possesses unlimited retaliations ability) ret strike can hit all creatures that attack your selected creature.However the enemy may choose not to attack it,attack it with the hero(magic or melee) or make a ranged attack(not entirely sure but in this case there is no ret strike) which limits its usefulness.So it seems useful only when you charge with a powerful stack ,when you have one stack remaining or when a stack is too much of a threat to be ignored.Even in these situations it can be avoided.Conclusion:Try to avoid it too,after being useless for most of your battles it feels a wasted lvl up.I guess it could be just fine with unstoppable charge but pursuing this particular ultimate ability is both hard to obtain and can cripple you in terms of selected skills
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fishjie
fishjie


Adventuring Hero
posted August 04, 2006 12:05 AM

so retaliation only works when your unit is hit by a meelee and NOT with spell or ranged attack?

also will it work if someone retaliates against your protected unit?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted August 04, 2006 01:40 AM

Quote:
so retaliation only works when your unit is hit by a meelee and NOT with spell or ranged attack?

also will it work if someone retaliates against your protected unit?


I just tested it to be sure and it is even worse than I initially thought.I knew it worked only against melee attacks but it seems that it ONLY works when you are attacked!Damn knights and their defensive tactics!As if the devs wanted us to avoid it at all costs
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 04, 2006 08:52 AM

Retaliation strike sucks balls. They should seriously rework it. Maybe knights should be able to choose sylvan-like favourable units and defend them each combat automatically..

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted August 04, 2006 01:09 PM

Oh come on lets not make a useless skill imba!Something in the middle perhaps?Imagine a knight guarding 3 stacks AND being able to attack/cast spells since it would be a passive ability.No way!
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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caligno
caligno


Hired Hero
If zombies only had brains
posted August 04, 2006 01:46 PM

Maybe something as simple as picking a unit at the beginning of the battle and have it defended for the entire fight. Being able to change that unit would be possible but it would use the hero's turn.

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dfortae
dfortae


Known Hero
posted August 04, 2006 02:48 PM

Just make it work on ranged units too and increase damage delt by 50%.  There, solved.

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juventas
juventas


Adventuring Hero
posted August 04, 2006 03:53 PM

The skill is only useful with high tier enemies.  Killing one dragon is nice, but killing 10 imps is less so.  Instead of using the damage of the hero, they should bump it up some, like dfortae mentioned.
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God2
God2


Adventuring Hero
Your benevolent deity
posted August 04, 2006 07:33 PM

Another thing they could have done, was to making a passive ability. Fore example: Each time one of your units are struck in melee, there is a 10-20% chance that the Knight will make a retaliation strike.

Less interesting perhaps, but could probably work pretty well.
____________
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M4Carbine
M4Carbine


Hired Hero
posted August 05, 2006 07:07 AM
Edited by M4Carbine at 07:08, 05 Aug 2006.

This is how it works, train all your human units into paladins then put them into one stack, use retalation strike, you enemy has no choice but to attack or skipp turns, while your stack of paladins goes around fearlessly smashing everyone.

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