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| Thread: Irresistible magic - a knife with two edges |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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Finarfinn
Hired Hero
son of Finve
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posted August 04, 2006 01:55 PM |
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Irresistible magic - a knife with two edges
Warlocks in HMM5 have specific skill Irresistible magic.It negates magic protection and allows hero to deal spell damage to otherwise resistant creatures. When i used Armaggedon, the spell did damage to my own Black Dragons! But I were shocked, when group of Mages were starting use Magic Fist against my Black Dragons!! Shame on Nival
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caligno
Hired Hero
If zombies only had brains
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posted August 04, 2006 02:26 PM |
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Edited by caligno at 14:27, 04 Aug 2006.
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Irresistable magic does negate your own troops magic defense, so be careful with that when using area effect spells, especially armageddon with Black Dragons.
As far as Fist of Wrath goes, it isnt magic damage, it is physical damage, therefore it can be used on any magic resistant creature, including Black Dragons. It has nothing to do with your Irresistable Magic skill in this case (if thats what you were implying).
edit: yeah I can spell
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 04, 2006 02:35 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 14:37, 04 Aug 2006.
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Irresistable magic does give you the possibility to kill your own BD:s, but magic fist is a spell that does PHYSICAL damage even to spell resistant creatures like BD:s. Wasp swarm is the same, so they have nothing to do with irresistable magic.
EDIT: Posted same time as Caligno
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Finarfinn
Hired Hero
son of Finve
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posted August 04, 2006 03:27 PM |
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Ok I understand.But what means non-elemental/elemental damage?
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caligno
Hired Hero
If zombies only had brains
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posted August 04, 2006 05:35 PM |
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Quote:
Ok I understand.But what means non-elemental/elemental damage?
Elemental means fire/ice/earth/etc., so elemental damage is damage that is caused by one of those spell types. Therefore elemental damage is reduced by magic resistance and not by defense. Abilities like chilling bones causes cold damage and not physical damage. Most spells ie. fireball and meteor shower are also elemental damage.
Non-elemental damage is typically just physical damage, ie. being wacked by a sword
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted August 04, 2006 05:40 PM |
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It's kind of goofey to me that meteor shower isn't a combination of fire AND physical damage. There really isn't such thing as "earth" damage. To me, that's just physical. But, that's how they designed the game. 
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caligno
Hired Hero
If zombies only had brains
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posted August 04, 2006 05:48 PM |
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Quote:
It's kind of goofey to me that meteor shower isn't a combination of fire AND physical damage. There really isn't such thing as "earth" damage. To me, that's just physical. But, that's how they designed the game.
I am not sure what damage you would classify stone spikes as then, well actually that would make more sense as physical too. Now that you mention it... earth damage is sort of silly.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 04, 2006 06:10 PM |
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If you reason that way ... what about Ice Bolt? That spell just plunges a huge icicle on top of the unfortunate stack. Seems physical damage as well  . Or Circle of Winter? That's not unlike Stone Spikes; icicles that jump up from the ground, piercing whatever is on top of it. And I am sure that you can reason this way for more spells too  .
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caligno
Hired Hero
If zombies only had brains
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posted August 04, 2006 06:14 PM |
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Edited by caligno at 18:16, 04 Aug 2006.
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Quote:
If you reason that way ... what about Ice Bolt? That spell just plunges a huge icicle on top of the unfortunate stack. Seems physical damage as well . Or Circle of Winter? That's not unlike Stone Spikes; icicles that jump up from the ground, piercing whatever is on top of it. And I am sure that you can reason this way for more spells too .
yes yes, lets get rid of spell damage and make everything physical damage! (I know thats not what you were implying just seemed like the next logical step).
I suppose to keep things simpler earth damage makes sense, but in reality I would think physical damage fits better.
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted August 04, 2006 07:09 PM |
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Yeah, something like stone spikes definately 100% physical.
Ice and circle of winter types should probably be 50% cold, 50% physical.
Fireball, 100% fire
Meteor Shower, 50% fire 50% physical
Acid, 100% ACID damage (but they don't have acid damage).
Anyway, you get my point. It's a game so they have to put in some bogus elements sometimes for fun.
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kerista
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 04, 2006 07:29 PM |
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no no no... The stone spikes are being magicaly projected. There is no specific amount of strength thrusting it forward from the ground, it's magic. Which is to say, no amount of armor will stop it. It WILL peirce through and hit you because it has magical force behind it. Likewise with meteor shower. I would like to see someone parry or block a meteor. It is a force so powerful, that no amount of defense can prevent it.
The power of earth is not silly, it's phenominal crushing or peircing power. I don't care how much armor you put on someone or how much skill they have, if they get hit with a meteor, they are dead. Just as fire burns, earth makes you squishy.
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kerista
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 04, 2006 07:39 PM |
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oh yeah, in response to the origional post. To give irresistable spells to the one faction that has a creature immune to magic is realy stupid. That skill should have gone to the wizard, not the warlock. Makes much more sense for them to have it. Why would a factions special skill be the ability to hurt themselves?!? Very lame indeed. Booo I say to the developers on that one.
They instead should have a skill that makes them also more resistant to spells. Making them more like their god of a creature, the black dragon. Something like 10% spell resistance to creatures of their faction in their amy at first rank and 20, 30, and eventually 40% at ultimate.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 04, 2006 07:39 PM |
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Still, implosion has nothing to do with earth. i'd rather see it as a chaos spell, or smth like that.. 
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kerista
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 04, 2006 07:56 PM |
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The idea behind implosion is crushing force. That sounds like an earth force to me.
Implode: To collaps inward due to crushing pressure or force.
Earth is the power of crushing and gravitational forces. Imploison fits the bill.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 04, 2006 08:01 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
It's kind of goofey to me that meteor shower isn't a combination of fire AND physical damage. There really isn't such thing as "earth" damage. To me, that's just physical. But, that's how they designed the game.
I am not sure what damage you would classify stone spikes as then, well actually that would make more sense as physical too. Now that you mention it... earth damage is sort of silly.
Think of it as magic damage which is caused by manipulating the powers of earth element
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 04, 2006 08:12 PM |
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Quote:
oh yeah, in response to the origional post. To give irresistable spells to the one faction that has a creature immune to magic is realy stupid. That skill should have gone to the wizard, not the warlock. Makes much more sense for them to have it. Why would a factions special skill be the ability to hurt themselves?!? Very lame indeed. Booo I say to the developers on that one.
They instead should have a skill that makes them also more resistant to spells. Making them more like their god of a creature, the black dragon. Something like 10% spell resistance to creatures of their faction in their amy at first rank and 20, 30, and eventually 40% at ultimate.
Hey it can cause some problems if not handled well but I'd rather be sure that an enemy will receive spell damage no matter what,even if he is immune or has a chance to resist.Master hunters come to mind
Poor fragile elves safely placed in the corner surrounded by unicorn aura and hero resistance hoping they will avoid my spells!
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caligno
Hired Hero
If zombies only had brains
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posted August 04, 2006 09:21 PM |
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Quote:
no no no... The stone spikes are being magicaly projected. There is no specific amount of strength thrusting it forward from the ground, it's magic. Which is to say, no amount of armor will stop it. It WILL peirce through and hit you because it has magical force behind it. Likewise with meteor shower. I would like to see someone parry or block a meteor. It is a force so powerful, that no amount of defense can prevent it.
The power of earth is not silly, it's phenominal crushing or peircing power. I don't care how much armor you put on someone or how much skill they have, if they get hit with a meteor, they are dead. Just as fire burns, earth makes you squishy.
While I agree with you about the earth thrusting it forward, the fact of the piercing earth is still physical damage. A sword made out of rock would be the same, while I agree that earth spells shouldn't suffer any penalties to defense property, I still think technically its physical damage. But it really doesn't matter to me, just arguing technicalities now.
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kerista
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 04, 2006 09:34 PM |
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The reason a sword is not the same is because a sword has to be thrust by a "person". And that person's strength is a definate factor in how much damage that sword would do. Earth spells are not based on strength. Think of them as an unstoppable force powered by magic.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 05, 2006 01:58 AM |
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Quote:
The reason a sword is not the same is because a sword has to be thrust by a "person". And that person's strength is a definate factor in how much damage that sword would do. Earth spells are not based on strength. Think of them as an unstoppable force powered by magic.
But that is exactly the point: Earth damage is something you cannot keep away just because you are immune to "magic" or more specifically, some element. Good example: Gargoyles are made of stone - therefore, they are not damaged by fire, cold or electricity. That makes perfect sense. But they still perish if you punch on them (even though you do have to punch hard - ie. high deffense). In the same way, they should not be immune to Earth damage - they will perish if you put them under extreme pressure (ie. Implosion) or punch a stone spike through them (stone spikes). They will probably also perish if you hit them with a giant icicle (Ice Bolt) or with an impacting meteor (Meteor Shower) - even though they may not be affected by the cold and fire damage that would normally give extra damage to the targeted creature (thus: 50 % damage would make sense).
Likewise, Black Dragons may be immune to Cold, Fire and Lightning effects, but they are not immune to physical damage (they perish when you hit them) and therefore should not be immune to Implosion, Stone Spikes, Ice Bolt and Meteor Shower.
I actually think it would make excellent sense gamewise to employ the concept physical damage in a wider sense. It would add an aditional strategic level to the difference between spells like Lightning Bolt vs. Ice Bolt, Circle Of Winter vs. Fireball - as is now the case for Magic Fist and Eldritch Arrow. The one would be purely magical (elemental) damage, whereas the other would be a combination of non-magical (physical) damage and magical (elemental) damage. The purely elemental spells might do more damage, but the physical ones would affect creatures with immunities, just like Magical Fist currently does.
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Fofa
Famous Hero
Famous? Me?!
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posted August 05, 2006 04:28 AM |
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Quote:
In the same way, they should not be immune to Earth damage - they will perish if you put them under extreme pressure (ie. Implosion) or punch a stone spike through them (stone spikes).
Wouldn't anything succumb to extreme pressure?
Back on topic, I'm guessing that the developers would assume that the player knew that the Irresitable Magic would affect the hero's own creatures.
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