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| Thread: Irresistible magic - a knife with two edges |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 10, 2006 03:10 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Acid should be acid. H4 elements were superior, it's more "logical" to say implosion is a chaos damage spell than earth spell.. if someone actually cares for that, of course, and if it makes any difference ^_^
yeh... but chaos isn't an element...
Elements (according the the greek mythology that MM and HOMM is mainly based on) are air, earth, water, fire and gold 
I need to correct you on this - Gold was not an "Element" in the sense that Air, Earth, Water and Fire. However, they did think on a fifth element, which was beleved to be the "ether" that filled the void between the planetary shells. The concept of "ether" is still preserved when we talk about things being "ethereal".
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted August 10, 2006 03:36 PM |
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the fist of wrath always have certain damage value, whitch always is the same! psychical damage is only SOURCE of it. attack & defense of attacker/defender doesn't change it because those values are affecting damage that is dealt by creature in meele/ranged attack, but not spell!
those pisctures make my opinion more likely to understand
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Finarfinn
Hired Hero
son of Finve
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posted August 10, 2006 10:41 PM |
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Quote:
the fist of wrath always have certain damage value, whitch always is the same! psychical damage is only SOURCE of it. attack & defense of attacker/defender doesn't change it because those values are affecting damage that is dealt by creature in meele/ranged attack, but not spell!
those pisctures make my opinion more likely to understand
In this instance, why does the Fist of Wrath deal damage to Black Dragons? They are immune to magic, and only physical damage affects them. Physical damage in the game are hand-to-hand mele damage, range damage and Fist of Wrath's damage.
It is normal summoned fist to injure creatures just like blades or arrows, because they all deal physical damage. And then creature's Defence must resist a part of this damage. This question and many other questions are undecided by the game developers, but HMM5 is still new-born game, and in future will become better.
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted August 11, 2006 10:19 AM |
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Edited by radar at 10:27, 11 Aug 2006.
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i just wanna to prove that attack & defense are not affecting magic fist. and it is. this spell can hurd b_d because physical damage its a source of it, like ice is source of circle of winter. besides, it's written: "this spell ignores magic resistance and protection from magic" - like normal damage  . the fist of wrath spell doesn't have modificators like attack and defence. it has only damage value. look at it: why fireball ignores defence and hasn't got attack? because its spell! if fist will be for example, alligned to ice, it will still deal damage to black dragons, because its written: "this spell ignores magic resistance and protection from magic".
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Finarfinn
Hired Hero
son of Finve
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posted August 11, 2006 01:14 PM |
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i just wanna to prove that attack & defense are not affecting magic fist.
Yes, that is right in HMM5.
I just want to say my opinion and it is:
Black Dragons were immune to all magic in the previous four HMM. And this games were well balanced(except HMM1). At the present game Black Dragons are still immune to magic , but one spell does direct damage to them  The explanation is: the Fist of Wrath deals non-elemental physical damage and ignores magic resistance and protection from magic.Ok. Everybody knows what means physical damage, and everybody knows that creature' Defence affects it. But creatures are unprotected against Fist of Wrath.
The conclusions:
1. The Fist of Wrath is not well planned spell, and there is obscurity about it.
2. In HMM5, "spell" and "magic" are two different things, because a spell affects creature with "Immune to Magic". This fact isn't explained.
3. (this is about Irresistible Magic) To give Irresistible Magic to a faction that has a 7 lv. creature Immune to Magic is realy stupid
And finally: I enjoy HMM5, and I expect the game will become better and better. But at this time it isn't my favorite Heroes.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 11, 2006 02:38 PM |
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Quote:
Just one short comment - I was not referring to "Heroes V" world, but rather Role Playing world in general, when I talked about Fireball explosion being real fire etc. You state with certainty that "In Heroes 5, all magic done is magical damage" and that "all elemental damage is magical" but just how do we define 'magical damage' and why couldn't elemental damage just as well be physical damage in the sense of heat damage, cold damage or lightning damage - or phrased in another way, as I see it physical damage covers both 'standard' physical damage (done by weapons) but also heat/frost/electricity effects - ie. elemental damage.
Also, my point concerns not so much how it is in the game as it is now, but rather, how they should have made it in order for it to make sense, with real world logics and also with internal gameplay properties. Your representation is probably pretty much what the developers thought of, when they made it - I'm just saying, it doesn't make that much sense to me.
I've always thought spells as a manifestation of magical energy(thus being subject to resistance) sometimes with properties of an element even though your interpretation is more logical.In this case none can claim they are right while the other is wrong.But I sincerely doubt the developers went that far.For instance stone spikes:They seem to hit a dragon yet he takes no damage.Or magic fist:They just wanted a spell that deals physical damage AND not having to do with att-def as other spells.From my point of view they are fine this way.I'd rather have magic-immune black dragons and non 'physical' spells as a matter of taste!
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