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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Make the game of your dream! Resurrection of HoMM3
Thread: Make the game of your dream! Resurrection of HoMM3 [ This thread is 5 pages long: (1) 2 3 4 5 ]
SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted August 27, 2006 02:53 PM bonus applied.
Edited by angelito at 12:08, 09 Sep 2006.

Make the game of your dream! Resurrection of HoMM3

Hello, heroes community.

Many years I played HoMM3 and each year brings some surprises. Few weeks ago i was surprised that if you wear 2 Quite Eyes of the Dragon (att/def+1) then they both work 1 year ago i was not aware that Jebus XL is one of the best random templates. 3 years ago i knew nothing about settings for random maps, template theory.

Today i posted revolutionary set of patches that may improve gameplay even more, make game more interesting and balanced. These patches are very easy to install (same way as rmg.txt, you need just to copy them into your heroes ...\DATA\ folder).

Patches may be installed with different features like disabling at all Cartographer/Hillfort and banning Dimention Door, Fly, Water walk and Magic Mirror so they will never appear in Magic Guild. Also useless artefacts Necklace of Ocean Guidance, Boots of Levitation, Sea Captain's Hat, Angel Wings were disabled.

I added Crypts to Rough, Lava and Sub-terrainian terrains to help Stronghold/Inferno/Dungeon with some money. I don't understand why were Crypts banned for years for these towns.

Patches you may find here: http://randommaps.narod.ru/text.html

Any idea what new patch do you need - please post below. Ideas how to balance necro town? unit cost, unit's skills? Spell levels? Wanna see Resurrection, Town portal on Level5? Town portal in fire school? Eliminate useless spells or artefacts? Remove Subterrainian Gates? Add more wells? Remove Diplomacy and Navigation at all? Add griffins to cons and Serpent Flies to hives?

Best regards, Sergey (sag19330184)




Edit by angelito
Very nice "patch", helps to balance some things and many players seem to use it already. Keep it going!

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ByteBandit
ByteBandit


Promising
Famous Hero
Soul Merchant
posted August 27, 2006 04:18 PM

I think these patches are great for vanilla HoMM3(i.e. RoE,AB, & SoD). But, as you may or may not know, with WoG, the so called "useless" artifacts have been beefed up now. For instance, the Bird of Perception gives Royal Griffins. Great if you're a knight. And Pendant of Death gives Zombies, great if you're a Necromancer.
But these could be useful for Non WoG HoMM3 games, indeed.
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The Archives

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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted August 28, 2006 09:24 AM

WOG is good idea. TE is even better idea. However, i don't like many of WOG options and as far I understand some of WOG options cannot be disabled...In other words - WOG is "deep re-construction" while "Resurrection HoMM3" project is a kind of "light tuning". I don't plan any "deep" changes without consensus with top veteran players like Frank, Maretti, Nevermindspy, maybe some russian experts will join project as well...

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 28, 2006 10:47 AM

Quote:
Also useless artefacts Necklace of Ocean Guidance, Boots of Levitation, Sea Captain's Hat, Angel Wings were disabled.
Angel Wings useless? They don't work because Fly is disabled?

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nevermind
nevermind


Famous Hero
posted August 28, 2006 12:24 PM
Edited by nevermind at 13:04, 28 Aug 2006.

EVERYONE this is a heroes earthquake

heroes 3 is gonna get as good as we make it!!

my idea is to improve every aspect of the game + balancing everything perfectly..!


so the project of a new PERFECT heroes begins now , here's my start of things, all spell changes that should be make in my openion are:



general ideas
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
generally higher sp to all spell so that intelligence skill will become much desirable
higher low lvl magic affects so maybe magic heroes become more desirable
maybe higher magic affects overall so magic heroes become more desirable
make more good lvl 3 spells so that wisdom will become more desirable
water magic and fire magic needs to be improved
any spell that involves luck should be drastically lowered in level and sp and maybe higher affect

*update : new idea from angelito all completly useless spells should be removed entirally and not just downed to lvl 1 cuz might cuase too much useless magic in lvl 1 - i will update this change in list later.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Adv. spells
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
scuttle boat - all water things removed for now
visions - change from lvl 2 to lvl 1 reduce cost to 1 on all levels also test increase its affect
view earth - no change
diguise - change from lvl 2 to 1 reduce cost to 1 ect
view air - no change
fly - either no spell at all - or test astronomic spell cost
water walk - all water things removed for now
Dimension door- same as fly allow only 1 at most
town portal - change to lvl 5 also make it astronomic cost
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Combat. spells
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
QuickSand - change from lvl 2 to 1 reduce cost to about 2 sp
Land Mine - change from lvl 3 to 1 reduce cost to about 4 sp
Force Field - change from lvl 3 to 1 maybe reduce cost
Fire Wall - change from lvl 2 to 1 maybe reduce cost
earthquake - change from lvl 3 to 2 maybe reduce cost
magic arrow - no change ( if affect change its power maybe make more powerfull and higher level )
ice bolt - no change ( if affect change its power maybe make more powerfull and higher level )
lighting bolt - no change ( if affect change its power maybe make more powerfull and higher level )
implosion - higher cost and maybe reduce affect
chain lighting - no affect ( maybe reduce to lvl 3)
frost ring - change from lvl 3 to 1 or maybe add more power
fireball - change level or add power
inferno -  change level or add power
meteor shower - no change
death ripple - maybe change to lvl 1 , maybe add power
destroy undead - maybe add power
armageddon - reduce power and higer sp
sheild - lower sp to 1
air sheild - change from lvl 3 to lvl 1 reduce sp to 4
fire sheild - change from lvl 4 to 3 maybe reduce sp
prot from (all schools) - change all to lvl 1 and reduce cost to 2
anti-magic - no change
dispel - no change
magic mirror - test if can change affect , change from lvl 5 to lvl 2 maybe reduce sp
cure - test if can higher affect and maybe with it higher lvl and sp
ressurection - lower affect change to lvl 5 higher sp
animate dead -  change from lvl 3 to lvl 4 or 5 ,higher sp cost
sacrifice - change to lvl 3 maybe reduce sp
bless - maybe reduce sp
curse - maybe reduce sp
bloodlust - reduce sp ,try to make more powerfull
precision - change from lvl 2 to 1 - reduce sp
weakness - change from lvl 2 to 1  -reduce sp
stone skin - maybe reduce sp
disrupting ray - change from lvl 2 to  1 - reduce sp
prayer - change from lvl 4 to 3 maybe reduce sp
mirth - change from lvl 3 to 1 reduce sp
sorrow - change from lvl 4 to 2 -reduce sp
fortune - change from lvl 2 to 1 reduce sp
misfortune change from lvl 3 to 1 reduce sp
haste change from lvl 1 to 3 double or triple sp
slow change from lvl 1 to 3 double or triple sp
slayer - change from lvl 4 to 1 reduce sp
frenzy - change from lvl 4 to 3 maybe reduce sp
titan's bolt  - wtf?
counter strike - change from lvl 4 to 3 ,reduce sp
breserk - change to lvl 3 - higher sp?
hypnotize- change from lvl 3 to 1 - maybe reduce sp?
forgetfullness change from lvl 3 to 1 maybe reduce sp
blind - change from lvl 2 to 3 or 4 - higher sp
teleport - change from lvl 3 to 2  - maybe reduce sp
remove obstecale- change from lvl 2 to 1 - reduce sp
clone - change from lvl 4 to 3 maybe reduce sp
(element) elemntal - maybe change to lvl 3 if can reduce affect
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
creatuer's abilities
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
increase aging affect, increase disease affect
maybe increase death clowd affect
maybe increase thunderbolt affect


maybe higher chance(if possible) to stone gaze,poison,paralyze,acid breath,death stare



also genrally maybe switch some good spells from earth/air schools to fire/water schools..


please post your comments on theses changes + add new ideas of your own..!





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Ruho
Ruho


Hired Hero
posted August 28, 2006 03:29 PM

Wow, interesting. I don't know exactly what kind of changes are you capable of making, but I'll post some things that could be better IMO.

About terrains…

The most important change for randoms I would like to see is that Dungeon should be able to start with their native (Subterranean) terrain even on the upper level of the map, not just underground. Why? Because now they start with Dirt-terrain, which doesn't give them the +1 SPEED!, attack & defence bonuses. This alone is a huge disadvantage and moreover necro-creatures (especially Crypts), which normally are easy kills 1st week, are now also much harder for Dungeon. Dungeon doesn't seem to be too popular these days on randoms, so if this change was possible, maybe it would balance things a bit.

Also, the other terrains than Subterranean don't get their +1 bonuses underground, but battles take place in Sub-terrain. Could this be changed?

What's more, IMO it is wrong that towns with harder terrain have to suffer the movement penalties in their starting zone if they carry non-native creatures. Especially annoying with Tower who lacks fodder and a melee stack first days to finish creatures weakened by Master Gremlins. I have no idea how this could be solved, just wanted to see if people think the same about this issue. The H5 solution isn’t definitely good one for H3 as you hardly ever use native hero with Tower for example.

I don't see adding crypts and stuff to terrains without them as a necessity, but on the other hand, why should towns with Grass, who are strong already, nearly always have a better start. If you compare for example Lava and Grass... well Lava may have more External Dwelling, but at what cost (and with Inferno you aren't likely to take full advantage of them anyways)? You won't find Stables, Trading Posts, Crypts, etc and Lava zone is usually also trickier-shaped. Well maybe, if done well (needs views of a few vets), this could make the game much more balanced (at the cost of towns’ individuality though). BtW, where the heck are Abandoned Mines on randoms?

About spells...

Maybe DD & Fly could be brought back to game if one could only travel to places where u already can move. Meaning, if a way to some other zone or a corner of a zone is still guarded by monsters you couldn’t jump/fly there.

The idea of “banning” them from Mage Guilds is great. There was alike file in the forums, but the link is dead now. Link to the post.

Maybe magic heroes could regenerate 1 spell point (or more) / knowledge (or level) each day…

Other...

What about halving Necromancery secondary skill and Amplifier?

A button with what you could trade all your creatures and artefacts at once would make chaining much faster….

A button with what you could fill the empty slots with your hero with single units would make things faster too. Like this:
0, 0, 0, 0, 15 Goblins, 50 Cents, 7 Grands -> pick Goblins and press the magic button ->
1G, 1G, 1G, 1G, 11G, 50C, 7GE

'nuff for 1 post.

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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted August 29, 2006 02:20 AM

1) reply to Ecoris: as far as in internet games >90% random maps are played with "no DD/Fly" rule. That means that you can't use Angel Wings and that this art is useless. I would prefer not to get it in Utopia

2) reply to Ruho: About Dungeon terrains - not sure, i will check a bit later;
About DD/Fly spells limited use - too difficult, perhaps it will require deep change of spell function...; don't understand idea about balancing magic heroes? do you wanna see level 15 magic hero on week2?
halving Necromancery secondary skill - not sure, i will check...currently i haven't found hero speciality modifiers and starting skills table. At the moment I can change only probability of skill level up. I can add little probability of Fire to Rangers for example - just to allow pick Fire in University; About buttons: this do require ERM scripts like in WOG, such buttons were introduced into TE version.

3) reply to Nevermind: i really will disable Summon boat/Scuttle boat, some other proposals are good, some are not. Too many level1 spells proposed Regarding Slow/Haste - perhaps move to level2, but increase probability of appearance? or no change for these favorite spells?
titan's bolt is spell of combo art that is cast at 0 mana, remember?
fireball /inferno - right, more power will be added.
Would be nice to allow bless in all towns even necro, not sure if it can be done.

3) i found that (knoledge+1) object can't appear on rough terrain, i think that should be changed to balance spellcasting of Stronghold heroes.

4) i will soon add voting page on each improvement requested

Best regards, Sergey (sag19330184)

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 29, 2006 03:48 AM

More balance between might heroes and magic heroes is needed. Might heroes are by far the best in H3 unlike H2. But simply changing casting costs and spell levels does not benefit the magic heroes enough IMO because the changes are the same for both hero types. It's like the magic heroes do not benefit enough from spell power.
A wisdom restriction for might heroes would be very interesting as long as the best 3rd, 4th and 5th level spells where changed.
Quote:
Would be nice to allow bless in all towns even necro, not sure if it can be done.
It can be done. Just change the odds values for the appropriate spell in the correct txt-file (just like odds values for secondary skills).

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted August 29, 2006 04:29 AM

First of all, i have to say "This is a great idea / improvement"!
Thanks to Sag for making a more balanced game possible.

But.....i recommend to NOT create a new WoG!

Don't change too much, otherwise u will get problems getting a game going because players can't agree on using the patch or not.

Do not create a whole new game, but change the "obvious" flaws, maybe the unneeded things and things which are always "banned" in online games.

I want to explain my ideas here, any comments later on are welcomed:

1. Nagabanks should give gems instead of sulfur. Nearly everybody knows about this "bug". Those resource buildings always give the resource refering to the town the guard belongs to:
Cache - Imp - Inferno - Mercury
Store - Medusa - Dungeon - Sulfur
Treasury - Dwarf - Rampart - Crystal
Bank - Naga - Tower - GEMS

2. Starting town should ALWAYS have level 1 and level 2 dwelling prebuilt, like it is on neutral towns.

3. Conservatories and dragonfly hives should give money, resources and / or artefacts instead of creatures. Additional creatures can unbalance a game pretty much. Also raise the value of those buildings in the rmg, so they won't appear that often.

4. External dwellings should not longer raise the growth in town aswell. You just get the extra units from the external dwelling. I always found it pretty funny to get 1 extra pikeman per week in town when u got an external pikeman dwelling....same as with external angel dwelling...

5. Crypts and stables should be available on every terrain

6. Make "dirt" as native terrain for dungeon aswell, like it is for necro.

7. Bann hillfort and cartographer

8. Movement penalty should be neutralized if a hero carries at least ONE native unit. It works that way for desert and nomads. Fortress and Tower (Stronghold to a certain degree aswell) have a big disadvantage early in the game coz of that. They would still have their "home" advantage if they get visited by another player, coz the "visitors" rarely have non natives troops and would still suffer the penalty that way.



More ideas later, have to leave for now.....
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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted August 29, 2006 05:26 AM

Quote:
Hello, heroes community.

1 year ago i was not aware that Jebus XL is one of the best random templates.


Sure is It's great to see ppl still making posts praising this template.

Anyways, pretty much all of Angelitos ideas are good and valid veteran level ideas. Those can be implemented without risk of reducing the quality of the mod.

As for many other ideas that will be posted remember there are lots of ppl out there who rarely play or mostly play wog single player that will post lots of crazy stuff that is not really needed.

Sometimes less is more, and while most people usually agree on the core balance issues, the consensus grows thinner as people become more creative and suggest obscure changes that maybe 1 or 2 ppl think would be a good idea.

I think your tune up is great for H3. I don't really play it anymore, but I wont play h5 either because it ruins hard drives.

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 29, 2006 06:25 PM
Edited by maretti at 07:18, 30 Aug 2006.

Imho there are a few changes that could improve the game, but I dont find most of the suggestions allready mentioned a good idea. The focus should be on balancing the towns including their areas. Besides that leave some things out which are simply needless. Maybe 2 versions could be made. The 2nd one with much more changes in the magic system.

I find the game to be most balanced if there are alot of imbalances. Player 1 is ahead in 5 areas while player 2 is ahead in 5 others. This way the game is more balanced and more fun. (Also the reson why jebus with only standart rules is pretty balanced most times). If you leave to much out and have a bad map you will have no chance cause you have no possibilities.

What I would like to see:

1. Water wheels, crypts, tradeposts and stabels should be possible to get on all terrains.

2. Dungeon should start on native terrain.

3. Hillfots and cartos should be banned.

4. Necromanising should give half the skellies and the necroarts should be removed (or something similar).

5. Phoenix production should be halved.

6. 100% useless arts like seacaptains hat should be removed.

7. With these arts gone you should get a lower reward for taking topes. They are rewarding enough as it is.

8. Boots should be a lvl 3 art. Maybe some other arts should change lvl too.

9. Fire ball and inferno should give more damage and some useless spells could be removed. Maybe a few more changes but nothing drastic.

10. Ill think about it.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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LKru33
LKru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted August 30, 2006 09:24 AM

I am no Maretti, Angelito or Nevermindspy... however, I enjoy the game just as much as the top veterans.

I would like to see Week of the ________ taken out.  Stronghold vs Castle, Week of the Behemoth could really ruin a game.
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 30, 2006 11:32 AM

Quote:
I am no Maretti, Angelito or Nevermindspy... however, I enjoy the game just as much as the top veterans.

I would like to see Week of the ________ taken out.  Stronghold vs Castle, Week of the Behemoth could really ruin a game.


Try the other choice if he gets angels...
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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted September 02, 2006 11:06 AM

i updated site with "no Navigation/Diplo" skill patch.

http://randommaps.narod.ru/text.html
____________
I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted September 04, 2006 10:15 PM

Maybe u should take a look at that pic SAG:




Happened tonight in a game, where the host used your patch.
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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted September 05, 2006 07:07 AM

I am back from holiday and I am impressed with this thread. I can't help it but I want to say publicly "Thank you SAG" for the patches you have already released or any future patches you are bound to release. As for the "minor" problems that might occur while patching (see Angelito's post above), I believe that all of them will be deminished soon.
I have not much to add, just to say that I am totally with bjorn's view "less is more" and that veteran's should be the ones that will give directions for real improvements. Having said this, I am ruled out , but anyway, I agree with the propositions made by angelito and maretti on their posts above.
Moreover, a good proposition that could strengthen magic heroes would be nice possibly in the direction that Ecoris suggests, but perhaps this is an issue that will never be solved with this game no matter how many patches are released.
Anyway, I think that simply changing the core of the most annoying "bugs" (commonly ruled out in internet gaming) in this game is plain good for starters. This will result in a new game and experience through actual playing will give rise to any further improvements (or bugs as angelito's pic above).

Regards,
- dimis -
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The empty set

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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted September 06, 2006 04:09 AM

reply to Angelito
- perhaps not only host should have E1 patch, but all players. Not sure, i will test later. HOWEVER it should not crash the game, as far as i know it's just bug picture and nothing else...

reply to dimis about Magic heroes
- currently i think about "optional patch" converting all Magic heroes into Might heroes. Positive: that will increase number of "favorite" heroes. Negative: this is not "light tuning" and need to be tested. Starting skills seems to be impossible to change with just .txt patch, but it's easy to change Skill Tree probabilities.

other
please post here your ideas not to simply ban, but to balance Cons/Hives.

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted September 06, 2006 09:23 AM

2 questions refering to that pic:

1. Does this skill represent OFFENSE now, or LEARNING? (pic or text, what counts?)

2. This was the main hero of the HOSTER, who had your patch installed. No other player had the patch installed, but no other player had any similar glitch. So it seems a patch problem....
None had cons or hives in his area, that worked fine.
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gabislayer
gabislayer


Bad-mannered
Hired Hero
suffering
posted September 06, 2006 05:11 PM

Well I wouldn't call these exactly patches...they are more like plain text configuration files which are modified ...

I want to ask SAG a question though ... about the file Objects.txt ...
I've searched the .lod files of the game and I've tried to understand the numbers in this objects.txt, I see that there are the definitions for the objects in the game but I cant figure what the numbers mean ... and I dont have so much time lately so if you can help me out a little I would appreciate it ... thanks.

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GabyStan
GabyStan


Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
posted September 16, 2006 05:43 PM
Edited by GabyStan at 17:49, 16 Sep 2006.

First of all, nice job Sergey!

Then, I agree with Angelito, Maretti and Bjorn, less is more and keeps the Heroes 3 in its original path.

My belief is that magic heroes will come back to strenght if secondary skills they are prone to aquire like: Egle Eye, Learning, Mysticism etc. are removed. The main reason for their unpopularity is not their insuficient spellcasting abilities, but the way they grow in secondary skills.

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Your worst enemy is... yourself.

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