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| Thread: Advanced Classes |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 10, 2006 03:15 PM |
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Simbad > Poor thing ... find something better to say then.  No ... just kidding. Didn't wanna ignore you for personal reasons.
And @ GM > The skills and stats should progress normally in the system I proposed, the thing with changing the %'s should only be something additional, and a way to make your stats more reflecting the skills you choose - ie. if you choose lots of magics skills, you'll go higher in Spellpower and Knowledge, whereas if you choose a lot of might skills, you'll go higher in Attack and Defence on befalf of the other ones.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 11, 2006 02:53 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 09:39, 28 Oct 2006.
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Oh Alc, youre such a pal!
Edit: Alc, sorry for that green smiley... () Maybe it was rude, but that time I didnt know what it means.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 07, 2006 06:56 PM |
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Hmmm ... too bad this thread died, really. I still think there are some interesting thoughts here that might develop into something usefull on further discussion.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted October 07, 2006 07:31 PM |
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Yeah, I was wondering too. What happened?
Hey, Alc, lets resurrect it! Use your supreme magical powers...!
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted October 07, 2006 07:46 PM |
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Edited by Ted at 19:49, 07 Oct 2006.
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Aaaaaaaaaa my brain alc is saying make a post aaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Well alk did some jedi mind control on me, he got me on here, but it is interesting to see how complicated everyone in this thread got into this. But i say that there maybe some good in resurection of this thread.
All in all great job guys
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 08, 2006 05:15 AM |
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He he ... I know I'm all powerful  - but didn't wanna force anyone into it, I just sort of feel this thread got drowned in 'the way aof the ...' topics.
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted October 08, 2006 06:02 AM |
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This is a thread before I joined. Looks interesting. But I have no time now. I will read in detail when I'm back. Good ideas!!
By the way, I have been think, perhaps we can promote the heroes to higher levels too. I can't really remember the system in H IV though.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted October 08, 2006 09:25 AM |
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You dont have powers, Alc??? So then lets bind all our pwers together so we can resurrect it!!! Focus...
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted October 08, 2006 09:29 AM |
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hmm, few posts, dont think its working o well must of got a head ach
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted October 08, 2006 10:07 AM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 09:40, 28 Oct 2006.
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Guys, help me! Im running out of mana! Use mana feed!
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted October 08, 2006 12:24 PM |
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Now I have finished reading the entire post, I realised I did not know the system in Heroes IV very well!
In any case, I agree with Alc's system that your primary skill that you get should be related to the skills you learnt. It's not useful to learn light magic and only have 10 mana to cast a spell at spellpower of 1!
How about this:
At a certain level (perhaps level 5 or 10), the hero gets to choose an advance class of specialisation (rather than being determined by the skill that you get on level up, which is so random). With your choice of specialisation, certain skills will be made more accessible than the others, and depending on your skill lineup, you get a corresponding increment in the primary stats.
Furthermore, instead of having 1 ultimate ability for each race, each racial specialisation gets an ultimate skill. In this way, the skill trees can be more varied.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted October 08, 2006 12:28 PM |
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GREAT IDEA!
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted October 10, 2006 11:49 AM |
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There still isn't anyone providing their opinions here.
Actually, for those who has played the might and magic series, especially the later ones, each class of heroes have their unique promotional quests, be it the soul jar (for the lich) or something else. So, if you wish to promote your hero to an archmage (for example), you shall attempt a promotional quest for the archmage. Perhaps it will be possible to use similar ideas in Heroes? Or perhaps the ultimate skill can be quest based rather than skill based?
Any comments?
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted October 22, 2006 01:48 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 13:59, 22 Oct 2006.
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@ alci
Quote:
Hmmm ... too bad this thread died, really. I still think there are some interesting thoughts here that might develop into something usefull on further discussion.
I'd adjust my initial proposal to your suggestions:
The Dwarves are missing (Berserker and Elder, perhaps?). Again, I've tried to avoid creatures' names (thus no Druids, Champions, Death Knights, Zealots etc).
The system is more important than the titles, of course. I thought you had a point here:
Quote:
I think the present Ability system pretty much makes up for the Secondary classes. [...] Therefore, I think the idea of Secondary classes is more or less redundant in the form they existed in Heroes IV, because the bonuses you wish for become available through these specific combinations of abilities.
That being said, I think there would be some things that could well change. What I would especially like to see was some sort of linking between your skills/abilities and your primary stats (attack, deffence, spellpower, knowledge).
...so I gave up linking the advanced classes to additional bonuses. Instead, I loved your idea about primary skills chances (a post which surely deserved a QP, by the way).
In other words, a hero who gains the Expert level of two might or two magic skills gets an advanced class. I'd still add an appropriate message and a one-time bonus here.
I liked your more complex proposal as well ( each time you choose a secondary skill, that skill will be linked to your chance of progressing in the different Primary Skills at level-ups ), although it might need further thinking and testing...
@ cantaresg
I loved your idea of optional advanced classes. However, I'm afraid making it quest-based would be a mistake; Heroes is a TBS with RPG elements, not vice versa.
In addition, alci's proposal could easily be implemented in an expansion pack.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted October 22, 2006 04:14 PM |
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How about having four alternative classes? It would somehow depend on your heros primary skills. Undersand what I mean? Not only Might or Magic hero, but Offensive, Defensive, Powerful or Wise hero!!!
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 22, 2006 05:42 PM |
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The idea of choosing an advanced class for experienced heroes sounds great, it could be a perfect replacement for the two heroes style that Nival discarded.
Making four advanced classes, however sounds extreme because you will probably never see a deffensive Demon Lord or a powerful Wizard.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 22, 2006 06:34 PM |
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Vlaad > I think you new proposal in all it's simplicity is an excellent solution - possibly couple with the Stat dependency on Skills as I proposed, but not necessarily - if that was too difficult to incorporate in the game, one could simply have one Stat increase probability with your basic class and switch to another with your advanced class. And I think the Class names are just fine - perhaps I would switch Sharpshooter with Sniper, to minimize confusion with units, but that's a detail.
I think a relevant question is, when you should gain your Advanced Class. I like the idea of saying that when you have Expert Level in two skills (either Might or Magic) you will (get the choice to?) advance to your Advanced Class. Question is whether the Class Specific skill should be included in this count or not. You can, however, be Expert in two classes as early as level 6, which is probably too soon to advance to Advanced Class. It might be better to say Expert Level in three skills of one type in order to qualify to Advanced Class - the catch would then be, that if you choose skills from both sides, you will only have Advanced Class in late game - but I don't think that's a bad thing, actually. With a three-skill requirement, you could reach Advanced classes probably at level 10-18, depending on how focused you are on reaching that goal, which I think is very reasonable (if you choose skills from both sides or if you choose abilities rather than skills, that'll delay the Advanced Class, which I think is perfectly fine for gameplay).
Also, I'm not positive whether the Class Skill should be included or not, but I think if the choice was three Expert Skills of one kind (Might or Magic), it would be reasonable to include the Class Skill - that would also make it easier for the Wizard to achive the Sage Class, and the Knight to achieve the Crusader class, which I think makes sense.
Any ideas as to what the bonuses should be? Stat increase probabilities should change (unless the depend directly on Skill choice). There should be some additional bonus, which I think should be more usefull that the ones you were granted with the Heroes IV system (most of them applied to Hero combat properties, which is more or less redundant with the new system). I'm thinking it could be really cool if the Hero got access to an Advanced Class specific Skill (with related abilities) and got a 7th skill slot reserved for this skill (Hero could simply gain Basic level in this skill on achieving the Advanced Class). Developing these skills would be a lot of work, but could also be lots of fun, and could add lots of extra gameplay to the game. Another problem is that as the game is now, you're unlikely to get all your skill slots filled, because Hero advancement is virtually stagnant after level 28. Therefore, introduction of more skill slots would require a change of the Experience Scale. However, I see that as more of a problem with the Experience system (which is very real, even in the present game) than as a problem with this idea. If any of you have better ideas for bonuses, put them forth. I think this bears developing.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted October 22, 2006 09:07 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 21:08, 22 Oct 2006.
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Furthermore, it seems Im ignored again here...
But I dont mind.
Here is my oppinion:
Forget it if you dont like to have 4 alternative classes, it was only an idea... And to the bonus after gaining an advanced class: I suggest a small bonus to primary stats (perhaps might: +2 att and def, magic: +2 pow and kno) and alternative ultimate ability, like it was mentioned before. Perhaps like this:
(Fury) Gatekeeper - Urgash call
Heretic - *
(Crusader) General - Unstoppable charge
(Cleric) Crusader - *
Reaper - *
(Mystic) Banshee - Howl of terror
(Sharpshooter) Hunter or Bard - *
(Warden) Druid or Oracle - Natures luck
(Overlord) Assassin or Fury - *
Sorcerer or Elementalist - Elemental rage
Alchemist - *
(Sage) Archmage - Arcane ominsence
* - you can still add here your ideas, or you can wait for my ideas, that I will post later, beacause I dont have time right now...
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vhilhu
Famous Hero
We are NOT schysophren
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posted October 22, 2006 09:15 PM |
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Edited by vhilhu at 21:20, 22 Oct 2006.
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* how can a male necromancer be a banshee 
* Archmage is already in use, tho i agree that sage sounds too grandpa
* Overlord is better than Fury/Assassin
* Gatekeeper sounds too guardish
IMO Prophet(Chaos Prophet?) would make a nice might Demon Lord advancement.
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Two little Gnoll boys sitting in the sun;
One got frizzled up and then there was one.
One little Gnoll boy left all alone;
He went and hung himself and then there were none.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 22, 2006 10:23 PM |
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Sindbad > I agree with Vlaad, names should not coincide with unit names, and too many of those you list do (Hunter, Mage, Druid).
Also, I'm not sure whether I agree with the idea of an alternate Ultimate Ability. But then, on second thought, there should probably be. After all, with the requirements for eg. Unstoppable Charge, you could never satisfy the demand of 3 Magic skills, which would meen you could never get the ultimate ability as Cleric. So yes, there should probably be an alternate Ultimate Ability with an alternate set of requirements. One should consider, however, whether this should be within the same Class Skill, or whether it should be in a separate (Advanced) Class specific ability.
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