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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: George W. Bush: The right man, at the right time for the tough job!
Thread: George W. Bush: The right man, at the right time for the tough job! This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT»
Celfious
Celfious


Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
posted March 16, 2007 04:00 PM
Edited by Celfious at 16:15, 16 Mar 2007.

Quote:
You are forgetting that both Bush & Cheney are big oil men. They have big stakes in oil companies making big profits. To hell with everyone else, they don't give a damn about the lives of American men & women, put in harm's way in Iraq … just so their oil interests are protected! What's a few thousand American lives and several hundred thousand Iraqi citizens' lives? It is about oil … Bush even admited it himself in one of his many idiotic slips of the tongue.


I hope this is not true but it sounds reasonable. I hate people who would take 1mil from an innocent, so they may prosper 10 dollars.

Edit: Seriosuly? Can someone post a reliable source to proof of this information?
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HodgePodge
HodgePodge


Adventuring Hero
Bard Extraordinairé
posted March 17, 2007 02:39 AM
Edited by HodgePodge at 02:47, 17 Mar 2007.

Bush & Cheney - Long Time Traitors

Quote:
Quote:
You are forgetting that both Bush & Cheney are big oil men. They have big stakes in oil companies making big profits. To hell with everyone else, they don't give a damn about the lives of American men & women, put in harm's way in Iraq … just so their oil interests are protected! What's a few thousand American lives and several hundred thousand Iraqi citizens' lives? It is about oil … Bush even admited it himself in one of his many idiotic slips of the tongue.


I hope this is not true but it sounds reasonable. I hate people who would take 1mil from an innocent, so they may prosper 10 dollars.

Edit: Seriosuly? Can someone post a reliable source to proof of this information?

While every American knows that Dick Cheney was the CEO of Halliburton (the no-bid contractor now controling the oil in Iraq) the corruption of this company, still controlled by Cheney, is being brought to light. Not only that but the Bush Family Dynasty has been in the oil business for generations and that Dick Cheney is the real power behind Bungler Bush.

[url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2007/03/14/EDGC7N7B4Q1.DTL]Cheney Revealed - San Francisco Chronicle[/url]

[url=http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040607-644111,00.html]The Paper Trail - TIME & CNN[/url]

[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4121538/]Cheney & Halliburton - Newsweek-MSNBS[/url]

[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4121538/]Halliburton & Cheney, A Risk Factor - Newsweek/MSNBC[/url]

Furthermore, the Bush Family has a history of consorting with the enemy for profitable gain. During World War II, Prescot Bush (grandfather to George W.) had ties to Nazi industrial interests and attempted to conceal these dealings from US Government investigators.

[url=http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_2]Bush and the Nazis - The New Hampshire Gazette[/url]


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homam
homam


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted March 23, 2007 04:05 AM
Edited by pandora at 15:11, 23 Mar 2007.

Peace?I don't know this word..

One and only is the terrosrist and has a name:George W. Bush
One and only is the tromocracy organization and has a name:US government.
Open your eyes-open your mind there's no Alkaida there's no Bin Ladden.All these are lies of us government in order to have a strong reason to **** our world.
George W.Bush:
Attack Afganistan-reason:talibans
Attack Iraq-reason:Saddam
2 wars?I think he crossed the line.2 wars are too much for a president.
Next war?we 'll find it out after the elections in 2008.
So tell me.Many of us have addictions.I'm addicted to smoking,to homm and many others.Why all us governments are addicted to war. Because now after so wars i started to speak for an addiction.I blame the full of blood and wars past of americans.I blame the history.Americans are just europeans criminals.Yes afterall i can say that they have the blood and the war in their dna.Conclusion: as long as USA being one of the greatest military powers of our world peace would be a utopia..

edit by Pandora - censor your own words in the future or you will be penalized.

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pomo
pomo


Famous Hero
The lone peasant
posted March 23, 2007 04:37 AM
Edited by pomo at 05:14, 23 Mar 2007.

Quote:
One and only is the terrosrist and has a name:George W. Bush
One and only is the tromocracy organization and has a name:US government.
Open your eyes-open your mind there's no Alkaida there's no Bin Ladden.All these are lies of us government in order to have a strong reason to **** our world.
George W.Bush:
Attack Afganistan-reason:talibans
Attack Iraq-reason:Saddam


Don't get me wrong, I have nothing good to say about Bush... but silly conspiracy theories like this are not helpful. 'Opening your mind' should probably include something along the lines of basing judgements on some kind of evidence. Bush has certainly been opportunistic (and in my view less than honest) in using Al'Qaeda and the WTC attack as grounds for many abhorent decisions, but it's plainly nonsense to suggest that they don't exist.

I'm not sure if you're suggesting also that the Taliban and Saddam don't exist? If so then um... LOL.

And what on earth is 'tromocracy' pray tell?

Quote:

2 wars?I think he crossed the line.2 wars are too much for a president.


You think these things should be run by some kind of quota system??

Quote:
Next war?we 'll find it out after the elections in 2008.


Well Bush can't run again because of the two-term limit on the presidency.

Quote:

So tell me.Many of us have addictions.I'm addicted to smoking,to homm and many others.Why all us governments are addicted to war. Because now after so wars i started to speak for an addiction.I blame the full of blood and wars past of americans.I blame the history.Americans are just europeans criminals.Yes afterall i can say that they have the blood and the war in their dna.


First of all you're anthropomorphising - governments are not living organisms and can't have addictions. Period.

Second you're essentialising - to suggest that 'war is in the blood of Americans' is such utter rubbish that I can't even begin to respond... Actually maybe I can ... Americans for a start are not a race (in fact there is no such thing as human races - none meet the biological criteria to be considered separate). War furthermore is not in anybody's DNA... LOL. As for 'Americans are just European criminals'... let's not forget Nazism, Colonialism, Fascism, the East India Company... yadayadayada, the list goes on and on.

The same logic is obviously applicable to equally non-sensical claims from the other end of the political spectrum (although I hesitate to regard positions like this as 'left' given how badly this would reflect on me) about Muslims for example.

Quote:
Conclusion: as long as USA being one of the greatest military powers of our world peace would be a utopia..


Conclusion: your post is nonsense. You think China would be some shining paragon or morality? Or India? Or Indonesia? The problems are not to do with some essential nature of a country - try reading some REAL history - not bull**** nationalist rants.

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted March 23, 2007 12:51 PM

I saw this on a wall as I was walking home:

'The war on terror is the terror we fear'
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homam
homam


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted March 24, 2007 08:40 PM

Was it for oil?Don't be so sure

Well i strongly believe that the war in Iraq wasn't for oil as many of u believe.How's that?Well i 'll tell u with simply words.I saw that in the news.
To efface the total cost of the war,US must have under their possesion 100% of oil production of Iraq for the next 80 years!
Quite a long time i think.And i 'm sure that Iraq's oil reserves can't exist for so long time.
But also we must no to forget that this search was refering with today standars of oil's world price.
For me?yes the oil was one of the reasons but not THE reason.

We must not to forget the geografical position of Iraq or the new state of USA...
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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


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Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted March 25, 2007 09:09 PM
Edited by The_Gootch at 21:12, 25 Mar 2007.

Proof we are winning the war on terror
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HodgePodge
HodgePodge


Adventuring Hero
Bard Extraordinairé
posted March 25, 2007 09:38 PM

Quote:
… To efface the total cost of the war,US must have under their possesion 100% of oil production of Iraq for the next 80 years!
Quite a long time i think.And i 'm sure that Iraq's oil reserves can't exist for so long time.
… For me?yes the oil was one of the reasons but not THE reason.

We must not to forget the geografical position of Iraq or the new state of USA...

It's not how much the United States has to spend on the Iraq Invasion that matters to Bush/Cheney, it's how much profit the two of them can squeeze out of this war in the time they have left in power. Read the article about Granddaddy Bush and the Nazis … then you may get an idea of where the Bush family really stands in regard to the safety and security of the United States. Their main concern isn't about their country, it's about the safety and security of the oil interests they own in Iraq and Kuwait.
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
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Of Ruby
posted March 25, 2007 10:43 PM

Dear God Let The Tears Flow

The_Gootch that was the funniest thing I've seen in a good long while! Thanks man! LoL, So funny . . . just LoL
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted July 02, 2007 08:30 PM


Quote:

The Imperiled Presidency Inside the Bunker

A President Besieged and Isolated, Yet at Ease
Bush, Grasping for Answers and Fixated on Iraq, Remains Resolute


By Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, July 2, 2007; Page A01

At the nadir of his presidency, George W. Bush is looking for answers. One at a time or in small groups, he summons leading authors, historians, philosophers and theologians to the White House to join him in the search.

Over sodas and sparkling water, he asks his questions: What is the nature of good and evil in the post-Sept. 11 world? What lessons does history have for a president facing the turmoil I'm facing? How will history judge what we've done? Why does the rest of the world seem to hate America? Or is it just me they hate?

These are the questions of a president who has endured the most drastic political collapse in a generation. Not generally known for intellectual curiosity, Bush is seeking out those who are, engaging in a philosophical exploration of the currents of history that have swept up his administration. For all the setbacks, he remains unflinching, rarely expressing doubt in his direction, yet trying to understand how he got off course.

These sessions, usually held in the Oval Office or the elegant living areas of the executive mansion, are never listed on the president's public schedule and remain largely unknown even to many on his staff. To some of those invited to talk, Bush seems alone, isolated by events beyond his control, with trusted advisers taking their leave and erstwhile friends turning on him.

"You think about prime ministers and presidents being surrounded by cabinet officials and aides and so forth," said Alistair Horne, a British historian who met with Bush recently. "But at the end of the day, they're alone. They're lonely. And that's what occurred to me as I was at the White House. It must be quite difficult for him to get out and about."

Friends worry about that as well. Burdened by an unrelenting war, challenged by an opposition Congress, defeated just last week on immigration, his last major domestic priority, Bush remains largely locked inside the fortress of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. in the seventh year of a presidency turned sour. He still travels, making speeches to friendly audiences and attending summit meetings, such as this weekend's Kennebunkport talks with President Vladimir Putin of Russia. But he rarely goes out to dinner, and he no longer plays golf, except occasionally chipping at Camp David, where, as at his Texas ranch, he can find refuge.

"I don't know how he copes with it," said Donald Burnham Ensenat, a friend for 43 years who just stepped down as State Department protocol officer. Rep. K. Michael Conaway (R-Tex.), another longtime friend who once worked for Bush, said he looks worn down. "It's a marked difference in his physical appearance," Conaway said. "It's an incredibly heavy load. When you ask men and women to take risks, to send them into war knowing they might not come home, that's got to be an incredible burden to have on your shoulders."

Bush is fixated on Iraq, according to friends and advisers. One former aide went to see him recently to discuss various matters, only to find Bush turning the conversation back to Iraq again and again. He recognizes that his presidency hinges on whether Iraq can be turned around in 18 months. "Nothing matters except the war," said one person close to Bush. "That's all that matters. The whole thing rides on that."

And yet Bush does not come across like a man lamenting his plight. In public and in private, according to intimates, he exhibits an inexorable upbeat energy that defies the political storms. Even when he convenes philosophical discussions with scholars, he avoids second-guessing his actions. He still acts as if he were master of the universe, even if the rest of Washington no longer sees him that way.

"You don't get any feeling of somebody crouching down in the bunker," said Irwin M. Stelzer, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute who was part of one group of scholars who met with Bush. "This is either extraordinary self-confidence or out of touch with reality. I can't tell you which."


A Parade of Setbacks

The reality has been daunting by any account. No modern president has experienced such a sustained rejection by the American public. Bush's approval rating slipped below 50 percent in Washington Post-ABC News polls in January 2005 and has not topped that level in the 30 months since. The last president mired under 50 percent so long was Harry S. Truman. Even Richard M. Nixon did not fall below 50 percent until April 1973, 16 months before he resigned.

The polls reflect the events of Bush's second term, an unyielding sequence of bad news. Social Security. Hurricane Katrina. Harriet E. Miers. Dubai Ports World. Vice President Cheney's hunting accident. Jack Abramoff, Tom DeLay and Mark Foley. The midterm elections. I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Alberto R. Gonzales and Paul D. Wolfowitz. Immigration. And overshadowing it all, the Iraq war, now longer than the U.S. fight in World War II.

Since winning reelection 2 1/2 years ago, Bush has had few days of good news, and what few he has had rarely lasted. Purple-fingered Iraqis went to the polls to establish a democracy but elected a dysfunctional government riven by sectarian strife. U.S. forces hunted down Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the al-Qaeda leader in Iraq, but the violence only worsened. Saddam Hussein was convicted, but his execution was marred by videotaped taunting. Perhaps the only unalloyed major second-term victory for Bush has been the confirmation of two Supreme Court justices who have begun to move the court to the right.

Other presidents have been crushed by the pressure. Lyndon B. Johnson was tormented by Vietnam War protesters outside his window shouting, "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?" Nixon swam in self-pity during Watergate, talking to paintings and once asking Henry Kissinger to pray with him. Bill Clinton fumed against enemies and nursed deep grievances during his impeachment battle.

But if Bush vents like that, no one is talking. Kissinger, who advises Bush, said the president has never asked him to kneel down with him in the Oval Office. "I find him serene," Kissinger said. "I know President Johnson was railing against his fate. That's not the case with Bush. He feels he's doing what he needs to do, and he seems to me at peace with himself."

Bush has virtually given up on winning converts while in office and instead is counting on vindication after he is dead. "He almost has . . . a sense of fatalism," said Rep. Peter T. King (R-N.Y.), who recently spent a day traveling with Bush. "All he can do is do his best, and 100 years from now people will decide if he was right or wrong. It doesn't seem to be a false, macho pride or living in your own world. I find him to be amazingly calm."

To an extent, Bush walls himself off from criticism. He does read newspapers, contrary to public impression, but watches little television news and does not linger in the media echo chamber. "He does a very good job of keeping out the extreme things in his life," Conaway, the congressman, said. "He doesn't watch Leno and Letterman. He doesn't spend a lot of time exposing himself to that sort of stuff. He has a terrific knack of not looking through the rearview mirror."

Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.), who attended a legislative meeting with Bush last month, said his impervious nature works both ways. "The things that make him unpopular also help him deal with all the pressure," Kingston said. "He's stubborn. He's loyal to his philosophy."


Reproached by His Own

The fabled loyalty of the Bush team, though, has frayed far more than might be apparent to him. The fight over whether Gonzales should remain attorney general has exposed a deep fault line. Bush remains convinced that his old friend did nothing wrong ethically in firing U.S. attorneys, and senior adviser Karl Rove angrily rejects what he sees as a Democratic witch hunt, according to White House officials. Yet beyond the inner circle, it is hard to find a current or former administration official who thinks Gonzales should stay.

"I don't understand for the life of me why Al Gonzales is still there," said one former top aide, who, like others, would speak only on the condition of anonymity. "It's not about him. It's about the office and who's able to lead the department." The ex-aide said that every time he runs into former Cabinet secretaries, "universally the first thing out of their mouths" is bafflement that Gonzales remains.

Some aides see it as Bush refusing to accept reality. "The president thinks cutting and running on his friends shows weakness," said an exasperated senior official. "Change shows weakness. Doing what everyone knows has to be done shows weakness." Another former aide said that no matter how many people Bush consults, he heeds only two or three.

Beyond Gonzales, the discontent with the Bush presidency is broader and deeper among Republican lawmakers, some of whom seethe with anger. "Our members just wish this thing would be over," said a senior House Republican who met with Bush recently. "People are tired of him." Bush's circle remains sealed tight, the lawmaker said. "There's nobody there who can stand up to him and tell him, 'Mr. President, you've got to do this. You're wrong on this.' There's no adult supervision. It's like he's oblivious. Maybe that's a defense mechanism."

Aides said they do challenge Bush. White House Chief of Staff Joshua B. Bolten had what one colleague called "a lot of hard discussions" with the president after the November midterm elections to shock him into recognizing that his approach to Iraq had failed. Bolten set up meetings so Bush could hear from critics of his policy and sent him written material to emphasize the need for change, the colleague said. That led to the decision to send more troops.

Even if he tries to avoid the media surround sound, Bush cannot help running into criticism. A group of moderate House Republicans bluntly told him during a recent White House meeting that he had become a drag on the party. And when the president invited conservative radio host Laura Ingraham for a bike ride last month, she upbraided him for his position on immigration.

Bush's unpopularity appears to impose limits on where he goes. He turned down an invitation from the Washington Nationals to throw out the first pitch on Opening Day, pleading a busy schedule. The former baseball team owner instead hosted an invitation-only ceremony for a college football team in the East Room, where no one would boo. When commencement season rolled around, he stayed away from major universities, delivering addresses at a community college in Florida and a small religious school in Pennsylvania run by a former aide. And even then he was met by student and faculty protests.


Seeking History's Lessons

Amid the tumult, the president has sought refuge in history. He read three books last year on George Washington, read about the Algerian war of independence and the exploitation of Congo, and lately has been digging into "Troublesome Young Men," Lynne Olson's account of Conservative backbenchers who thrust Winston Churchill to power. Bush idolizes Churchill and keeps a bust of him in the Oval Office.
 
After reading Andrew Roberts's "A History of the English-Speaking Peoples Since 1900," Bush brought in the author and a dozen other scholars to talk about the lessons. "What can I learn from history?" Bush asked Roberts, according to Stelzer, the Hudson Institute scholar, who participated.

Stelzer said Bush seemed smarter than he expected. The conversation ranged from history to religion and touched on sensitive topics for a president wrestling with his legacy. "He asked me, 'Do you think our unpopularity abroad is a result of my personality?' And he laughed," Stelzer recalled. "I said, 'In part.' And he laughed again."

Much of the discussion focused on the nature of good and evil, a perennial theme for Bush, who casts the struggle against Islamic extremists in black-and-white terms. Michael Novak, a theologian who participated, said it was clear that Bush weathers his difficulties because he sees himself as doing the Lord's work.

"His faith is very strong," said Novak, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. "Faith is not enough by itself because there are a lot of people who have faith but weak hearts. But his faith is very strong. He seeks guidance, like every other president does, in prayer. And that means trying to be sure he's doing the right thing. And if you've got that set, all the criticism, it doesn't faze you very much. You're answering to God."

Horne, the British historian, found himself with Bush on another occasion after Kissinger gave the president "A Savage War of Peace," Horne's book on the French defeat in Algeria in the mid-20th century. Bush invited Horne to visit. They talked about the parallels and differences between Algeria and Iraq as Bush sought insight he could apply to his own situation.

Horne said he is not a Bush supporter but was nonetheless struck by the president's tranquility. "He was very friendly, very relaxed," Horne said. "My God, he looked well. He looked like he came off a cruise in the Caribbean. He looked like he hadn't a care in the world. It was amazing."


Loyalists Lost

As Bush heads toward the twilight of his presidency, the White House feels increasingly empty. One after another, aides who have stuck with him are heading out the door. Andrew H. Card Jr., his chief of staff for more than five years, stepped down last year. And now counselor Dan Bartlett, an aide for 14 years, is leaving.

Card and Bartlett were the aides who spent the most time at Bush's side. Bolten, Card's replacement, and Ed Gillespie, Bartlett's successor, each decided not to devote as much time to "body duty," leaving the president without their constant presence. Others who have left have publicly castigated the president. Bush was particularly hurt, friends said, when reelection strategist Matthew Dowd disavowed him.

Bush seeks solace in his oldest friends from Texas and Yale University, hosting an annual summer picnic and a Christmas party. He invites friends to the White House or the ranch in Crawford. But those experiences are strangely impersonal. "It can be kind of clinical," said a friend who spoke only on the condition of anonymity. "You're in there and in that event it's all very controlled -- you come in for drinks at 7, you have dinner at 7:30 and by 9 you're back at your hotel."

Bush rarely leaves the White House for social outings in Washington, though lately he has tried to get out more, attending dinners last month at the homes of two old friends, attorney Jim Langdon and budget aide Clay Johnson III. Bush avoids politics in such moments. He reaches out for signs of normalcy, asking about business or mutual friends. "He wants to know if we've caught any fish," said Robert McCleskey, a friend since grade school.

Bush also deals with stress through discipline, routine and exercise. On a typical day, he wakes at 5 a.m., arrives at the Oval Office at 6:30, then leaves at 4:30 p.m. for a 60-minute workout. He returns to work for a while before retiring to the residence, where he turns in at 9:30. On weekends, he favors two-hour biking sessions at a Secret Service facility in Beltsville with companions such as Card or Alexander Ellis IV, a young cousin.

Friends say this does not make him ignorant of his troubles. "There isn't any doubt that he is totally and completely aware of all the existing circumstances around him," said a close friend. "There's not anything that he's not aware of -- how he's perceived, how his people are perceived, the problems his people have. He is the furthest thing from oblivious. . . . Somewhere in the back of his mind there's a pretty complete autopsy."

Yet Bush can seem disengaged. When he flew to New York to visit a Harlem school and promote his education program, he brought along New York congressmen on Air Force One, including Democrat Charles B. Rangel, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee. The White House was in the midst of tough negotiations with Rangel over trade pacts. But Bush did not try to cut a deal with Rangel, chatting instead about baseball. "He talked a lot about the Rangers," Rangel said. "I didn't know what the hell he was talking about."

Still, that trip demonstrated that Bush cannot escape his burdens. King, the GOP congressman, introduced him backstage to a soldier injured in one eye. Bush teared up and asked the young man to take off his dark glasses so he could see the wound, King recalled. "Human instinct is when someone has a serious injury to look the other way," King said. "He actually asked him to take them off. He actually touched the eye a little. It was almost as if he felt he had to confront it."

As they headed back to Washington a few hours later, with the televisions aboard Air Force One tuned to the New York Mets game, King mused that Bush must be feeling the weight of his office.

"My wife loves you, but she doesn't know how you don't wake up every morning and say, 'I've had it. I'm out of here,' " King told him.

"She thinks that?" Bush replied. "Get her on the phone."

King dialed but got voice mail. Bush left a message: "I'm doing okay. Don't worry about me."






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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted July 02, 2007 10:51 PM
Edited by The_Gootch at 22:51, 02 Jul 2007.

Garry Wills, one of the authorities I admire most, had this to say about the Bush presidency.


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Shadey
Shadey


Adventuring Hero
posted July 02, 2007 11:33 PM

Garry Wills is either intentionally lying, or has a terrible grasp of the history of the United States.  


Quoting Benjamin Franklin "
I've lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing Proofs I see of this Truth — That God governs in the Affairs of Men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that except the Lord build the House they labor in vain who build it. I firmly believe this, — and I also believe that without his concurring Aid, we shall succeed in this political Building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our Projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a Reproach and Bye word down to future Ages."

George Bush has never said anything like this.  Benjamin Franklin was probably the least religious of the founding fathers.  Get your facts straight.

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


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Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted July 02, 2007 11:46 PM
Edited by The_Gootch at 23:51, 02 Jul 2007.

Am I to take this one seriously?

Let me get this straight.  Garry Wills is a Pulizter Prize winning author.  He is a professor of American History at NorthWestern University and you say he's either ignorant of American History or libelous?

You're a real bright one.  Where the heck did you come from?
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Shadey
Shadey


Adventuring Hero
posted July 02, 2007 11:57 PM

Quote:
Let me get this straight.  Garry Wills is a Pulizter Prize winning author.  He is a professor of American History at NorthWestern University and you say he's either ignorant of American History or libelous?

You're a real bright one.  Where the heck did you come from?


Feel free to research the religions of our founding fathers yourself.  Obviously despite his "shining"  reputation his logic has grown so twisted and hatful against conservatives that he's blinded himself to the truth and real history.  

How can you say that he isn't libelous?  The shear number of religous quotes that you can find from the forefathers simply outweighs any arguement you or he could present to say otherwise.  

The bottomline is:  This countrys' government was founded using the ideals of Christianity and Jesus Christ.  

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


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Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted July 03, 2007 12:05 AM

This thread was created by Muerte to pay homage to president Bush.  I added an article that I thought was a fascinating look into the kind of government he is running.  That Wills is critical of evangelicals and their willful ignorance doesn't put him on the fringe of society.  

Your parsing of a quote to try to destroy the credibility of the article is pathetic.  Your next attempt to bring up some nonsensical facts about the role of christianity in this country's birth has no bearing on this discussion.  Yes the founding fathers were Christian.  Yes there are elements of god sprinkled throughout the Declaration and the Constitution.  So what?  The country was also founded on slavery.

I'm still waiting for a valid contribution to the topic from you.

 
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Shadey
Shadey


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posted July 03, 2007 12:14 AM

Quote:
This thread was created by Muerte to pay homage to president Bush.  I added an article that I thought was a fascinating look into the kind of government he is running.  That Wills is critical of evangelicals and their willful ignorance doesn't put him on the fringe of society.  

Your parsing of a quote to try to destroy the credibility of the article is pathetic.  Your next attempt to bring up some nonsensical facts about the role of christianity in this country's birth has no bearing on this discussion.  Yes the founding fathers were Christian.  Yes there are elements of god sprinkled throughout the Declaration and the Constitution.  So what?  The country was also founded on slavery.

I'm still waiting for a valid contribution to the topic from you.

 


Pathetic?  The authors opening statement that the country was not founded upon religous principles whatsoever.  I don't see how he has any credibility at all...

As far as a valid contribution is concerned.  I don't think you're the judge of that, nor do I care about your opinion on that subject.

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


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Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted July 03, 2007 12:22 AM
Edited by The_Gootch at 00:23, 03 Jul 2007.

Quote:
The right wing in America likes to think that the United States government was, at its inception, highly religious, specifically highly Christian, and even more specifically highly biblical.


~Garry Wills

vs.

you

Quote:
The authors opening statement that the country was not founded upon religous principles whatsoever.


If I ever had any doubts about my own reading comprehension, you just confirmed I'm on the right track.

Quote:
Get your facts straight.


I have.  Where are yours?
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violent_flower
violent_flower


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Almost there.
posted July 03, 2007 02:09 AM

Um, I guess the proof is in the contradiction, it would be nice if people actually knew what they were talking about before spewing their ignorant words all over the threads.


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antipaladin
antipaladin


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of Ooohs and Aaahs
posted July 03, 2007 02:21 AM

Quote:
I don't think you're the judge of that, nor do I care about your opinion on that subject.

How is that democratical?
I dont really care on this subject,since i think that if it wasent bush it was someone else.not a problam to find war in our times.
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Consis
Consis


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posted July 03, 2007 03:25 AM
Edited by Consis at 03:27, 03 Jul 2007.

The_Gootch,

Quote:
This thread was created by Muerte to pay homage to president Bush.

My interpretation of the nature of this thread seems quite different. The title does not simply mention Mr. Bush but also the 'job'.  In fact the author chose to describe his job as a 'tough job'. I'm not exactly certain what your interpretation of the title might be, but mine seems clear in my mind: The author does not simply wish to talk about Mr. Bush but also his job as president. Under this premise one might indeed feel inclined to discuss this man's religious beliefs and how those beliefs might affect his job. It seems relevant to me.
Quote:
I added an article that I thought was a fascinating look into the kind of government he is running.

I read the article in question. I agree with Shadey's argument based on my own research.
Quote:
Your parsing of a quote to try to destroy the credibility of the article is pathetic.

It is one of many and quite factual, I can assure you. I also have many such quotes of the same nature from the founding fathers with which I could provide. Dare I share some?
Quote:
Your next attempt to bring up some nonsensical facts about the role of christianity in this country's birth has no bearing on this discussion.

I think it's relevant only because our current president has made it such an issue. A thread of this kind using any other president: then your comment would indeed be warranted. No other president in the history of our country has been as open about his christianity as Dubya Bush.
Quote:
Yes the founding fathers were Christian. Yes there are elements of god sprinkled throughout the Declaration and the Constitution. So what? The country was also founded on slavery.

This is a very good and valid point and question you have made. Part of Mr. Bush's job is in fact defined in the Constitution. Thus his job and its legal descriptions, limitations, and formal/implied parameters would be very relevant for this particular thread.

However, it is a fact that the country was indeed founded by the use of and on the literal backs of slavery and its victims. And I don't see how the founding of our nation and its history of human slavery are relevant to Mr. Bush and his job. If you could please elaborate on the connection of this to the thread then I'd be thankful for your time in helping me better understand where it is.
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