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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Terrain
Thread: Terrain
SirDunco
SirDunco


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 29, 2001 05:11 AM
Edited By: SirDunco on 28 Sep 2001

Terrain

Here we are. Terrain.
Now I liked the terrain in Homm3, but it was imperfect.
Here are my ideas how to improve it.

First of all Forest should be passable and not only that for let's say preserve the could be used as Forts. Lets say that a asylum hero is persuing a guy from preserve and there is a forest nearby. The Preserve guy goes into the forest and hides there so when the Asylum hero comes to attack the Preserve hero will have a defese bonus , since it is their natural habitat. So also some forests could take up more then one space and have different creatures inhabit it. So U could enter a forest and ther would be a pack of Dendroinds in it waiting for u. Also once u would enter it the map would change into a very small forest map which would have many different exits. Preserve heroes could build outpost here which could store a small amount of creatures and scouts and serve as a little base.

Second part is Mountains. These could be passable well at least most of them, but they would require a special hero skill to climb(mountan climbing). This would take the amount of time depending on the level of the skill and the size of the mountain. Also some towns scould build outposts or lookout towers filled with archers here aslo. The look out tower would warn u when an enemy was withtin 2 turns of it and/or ur territory.

Next point is Snowland. Snowland can stay the same, but will have a some additions to it. Like a hero can't stay for more then three nights here or else some of his troops are going to loose hp because of the cold(after three night it would be the lv1 and so on)This has an exception on all snow and mostly snow maps. Academy could build outposts and lookout towers here.  Maybee a hero could dig her for things burried in the snow.

Grass land is the next point. Simple and would be kept the way it is. Any town could build outposts or lookout towers here.

Lava is another part of this thread. On here it would be the same as on snowland, after three nights some of ur troops lose hp because of the heat. Exception all lava and mostly lava maps. Asylum could build lookout towers and outposts here.

Dirt terrain is another point. Dirt is simple and will be kept the way it is. Any town can build outposts or lookout towers here.

Desert Will be similar to lava. Also after three nights some of ur troops will start to loose hp, becasue of the heat. Here u coudl dig for ancient artifacts burruied in the sand. Barbarians could build outposts and lookout towers here.

About Lookout towers and Outposts. Now the towns i have mentioned means they can build them/it without a penalty which means one turn. If u the town is not mentioned it means it builds it (if it wants to) with a penalty 3 days.
Technicaly that's all u need to know about these things.

Those are my terain ideas. I'll try to come up with more later.
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Lith-Maethor
Lith-Maethor


Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
posted September 29, 2001 05:17 AM

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes... I like it... just one question... shouldn't this be very unfair for non-Preserve heroes? ...not that I care anyway... I'm a childe of nature myself...
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SirDunco
SirDunco


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 29, 2001 05:21 AM

Okay a liitle correction

Yes it would be unfair, but it ids the easiest for the Preserve heroes to camuflage there.
Now heroes from different toens could try it, but there would be only a 50% chance that it would work. How about that(For Presrve it would be 100% all day, every day)
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thunderknight
thunderknight


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 29, 2001 06:04 AM

SirDunco, ya, the terrain idea is cool and would add more strategies in the game. I think there should be native terrain for every town type on which they can build lookout tower and outpost at reduced cost.

The lookout tower shouldn't be allowed to hold any troops. The only use of the tower is to keep the fog of war removed. If being attacked, the lookout tower got destroyed.

The outpost will cost more resources and have arrow towers with it. But again no garrison troops allowed. But this time the arrow towers would protect it.

Why no garrison troops allowed ? coz if allowed, ppl may abuse the outpost and lookout tower as some sort of ˇ§barrackˇ¨ to store the troops for easier invasion to enemy territories. Or maybe we can limit the total amount of lookout tower/outpost on the map at any given time.

The resource requirement for outpost/lookout tower in your native terrain will be half of that in other terrains.

Finally, I think preserve should have an edge regarding terrain e.g. like your forest idea and preserve heroes can summon dendroids to help them in forest.

Just some thoughts.

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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted September 29, 2001 02:43 PM
Edited By: Gerdash on 29 Sep 2001

very interesting ideas, imho

and trying to contribute to them:

the forest should be continous imho, so imho the effect similar to the tiny map could be achieved by limiting sight range to 1..2 squares while the hero is in the forest, and when the hero is outside the forest, the creatures in the forest would be hidden unless the hero is 1..2 hex from the creatures. also, the forest terrain should take some more movement and there could be impassables hidden under the trees that you cannot see from a distance, so forest would be difficult to pass unless you know the way. a lookout tower located in the forest would not show far away creatures under the trees of the forest. and the preserve town located in the forest would be nice.

the death of all level 1 creatures after three days on some terrains sounds bit cruel, maybe just some of them would die each day. the movement penalty should be more or less enough imho..

on the lava i would prefer some falling rocks or wandering invisible-on-the-map malicious volcanoe spirits who cast some meteor shower and fireball when they attack you.

maybe a look-out tower on a mountain would have somewhat different effects. or maybe standing on a mountain could just give you a scouting bonus.

i don't like the hill-climbing as a skill too much. imho the mountains should just have more movement penalty and more impassables than other terrains. there could be creatures that have more or less movement penalty on rough terrains, e.g. the ballista should have a heavy penalty in the forest and in the mountains, or an elf should be able to move without penalty in both the forest and on the snow. and maybe the barbarians would be ok on all rough terrains.
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SirDunco
SirDunco


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 29, 2001 02:48 PM
Edited By: SirDunco on 29 Sep 2001

Good Stuff

Gerdah I like ur idea about the falling rock. Maybee a volcano could erupt also.
Thunderkinght I think ur right the lookout towers shouldn't store anyhting.

As I promised more terrain

Coast. A coast could be a new adittion of a terains. Here u could fight from a ship troops on the grounds(but only here)
U would be inside the ship and could move troops out. The other side would need a catapult to destroy the ship and defeat u. They could also move in, but there would be some restirctions. Like the water would act like a moat. Ther would be one arrow tower which would be on the top of the ship from where ur units could shoot.

Also another one Mountain range. This would be a long line of mountans on which u could climb and move along the top. The get down wherewer u feel like. It would consisit of at least 10 mountains and would have dvarwen develings there since it is their natural habibtat.Lookout towers and a outposts wcan be build here and the lookout tower would have a range bounus. Instead of 2 turns it would be 4 turns, since it is up so high and can see far away.

More ideas will come soon.
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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted September 29, 2001 03:00 PM

mountain ridges separated by small valleys sounds interesting.. so you would loose movement when you move from one level to another, e.g. climb a hill.

and i like the sea combat and maybe the coastal combat with ships, especially if you could move the ships around. might make it possible to include a giant octopus in the sea creatures, because the octopus would probably like to fight from the water. in the coastal case the moat like thing would work fine, but i guess at sea the ships should be able to collide, so that you could jump from one ship to another.
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Wyvern
Wyvern


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 29, 2001 04:30 PM

Maybe in the Desert terrain there should be Desert Storms which works like the Whirlpools? Or the caravans do the same? I also think that rivers have to be interactive - you can't go on a river square and nothing to happen! For example, it costs you more movement points to step on a river but after that you can walk along the river for less movement points... Something like the roads.

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Preserver
Preserver


Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
posted September 29, 2001 08:11 PM

About my heroes moving through the forest...

Yeah...
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted September 29, 2001 08:58 PM

Why not have the terrain give bonuses or penalties to health during battles? There was a similar bonus of +1 Attack, +1 Defence, and +1 Speed in Heros 3, but I was thinking on something more substantial.

For cretures native to the terrain:
+10% damage. +3 Speed. No movement penalty when traversing the terrain (in combat or on map).

Creatures neutral to the terrain (I guess some creatures would qualify here): Movement penalty.

Creature unused to the terrain:
-10% damage, -30% Health, -2 Speed, Movement penalty.

Depending on the creatures in a stack the likelihood of a hostile encounter could be increased as discussed in th Wild Animal thread. Native creatures would of course increase the likelihood of friendly encounters.
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Dajek
Dajek


Known Hero
Psychedelic Knight
posted September 29, 2001 11:24 PM

No! -30% health? Too bug penalty! If Your army is a little better, than the opponent, but You don`t belong to the terrain You loose? No!
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SirDunco
SirDunco


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 30, 2001 07:38 PM

30% health

well the 30% health is a bit too rough. maybee it should be something around 10% health. it is  unfair to have such a big penalty for hp.
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Dragonlord
Dragonlord


Adventuring Hero
The Head Dragon Master
posted September 30, 2001 07:46 PM

good stuff!

i like ur terrain ideas Sir Dunco.  But if the others only have a 50% chance and Preservers have 100% chance then it would still be a little unfair, but thats just my oppinion, otherwise its a very good idea
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted September 30, 2001 07:50 PM

I don't see why you are against a huge penalty.

How effective can a Unicorn defend itself on ice or a slippery surface?

How well can a human (say a Pikeman or Champion) defend itself in a dense forest/jungle? The Champion should have to dismount in order to move at all.

How effective is a Sprite who is near to feinting from heat-stroke on lava?

Remember that Health doesn't only represent your hitpoints but also how well you can protect yourself against attacks. (Since the Defence rating has been removed.)

Perhaps saying Health is altered is wrong. Would probably be better to say that you have "bad luck" in the area, since this would have the desired consequence.

The effectiveness of a creature varies a lot with terrain. I don't think a penalty equivalent with 30% health is unreasonable.

A penalty of this sort explains why guerilla warfare usually is very effective. It's very tough to beat someone on their own home turf.

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SirDunco
SirDunco


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted October 01, 2001 04:34 PM

I gues u are right

Well u do make a good point there so I guess uare sort of right. But a creture should have more then one surface it can fight on withput a penalty.
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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted October 01, 2001 05:06 PM

i would rather have a damage and movement penalty here. as you said, you cannot attack, but it may not necessarily mean you cannot defend. imagine two ppl fighting on slippery ice: neither can stand firmly enough to make a good hit.
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Darkspirit
Darkspirit


Famous Hero
aka Zutus
posted October 01, 2001 05:22 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 16:36, 19 Jan 2008.

Personnaly I don't like the special terrain on the adventure-map. As for special terrain during a battle, I think that would rock. (view my 'special terrain during a battle...'-thread)


Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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