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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Rate Wake Of Gods!
Thread: Rate Wake Of Gods! This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 21, 2008 06:45 PM


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madshj
madshj


Famous Hero
Minotaur Lord
posted October 22, 2008 02:32 PM
Edited by madshj at 14:33, 22 Oct 2008.

(Outsatanding)

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted October 24, 2008 08:55 PM

Currently my rating still stands

(Because I even fail to procede in the Tutorial ....those pikemen placed besides the shrine don't change anything..)
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 24, 2008 09:09 PM
Edited by xerox at 21:09, 24 Oct 2008.

0/10
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 24, 2008 09:11 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 21:24, 24 Oct 2008.

Quote:
Currently my rating still stands

(Because I even fail to procede in the Tutorial ....those pikemen placed besides the shrine don't change anything..)



WoG tutorial? Why do you play this? The tutorial and the campaign are the worst thing in WoG, both made in 2002.
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted October 24, 2008 09:21 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Currently my rating still stands

(Because I even fail to procede in the Tutorial ....those pikemen placed besides the shrine don't change anything..)



What tutorial? Play the scenarios, not a tutorial made in 2002.
I need to get used to all that stuff first. I forgot about 90% of all features / creatures. I will fail badly if I play a "real" map from the very start. Shouldn't that tutorial help to get used to those things? It worked all fine...till this damn shrine wants a couple of pikemen placed besides....and then nothing happens..
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 24, 2008 09:26 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 21:28, 24 Oct 2008.

Angelito, there is no stuff to be used to. Just open "Alexander the Great" and burry deep all those IA heros. You know already 200% of what is to be done.

Don' touch at that tutorial or campaign, they are criticized badly even in the WoG community. Someone just wanted to show how brilliant he is at scripting.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 25, 2008 03:25 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 09:25, 25 Oct 2008.

Quote:
Currently my rating still stands

(Because I even fail to procede in the Tutorial ....those pikemen placed besides the shrine don't change anything..)



I played that tutorial today for the first time. It basically shows that wog is customizable at your wish. Those scripts are fun when doing it for the first time. I see no interest by doing 750 lines of code to demolish a town/reconstruct it/place pikemans/get bridge. There are much more challenging scripts to be done. And realistic.

Clicking right mouse on the inferno buildings will collapse them. Once you destroyed them all, you have to wait 7 days and then you can enter the town again. It will offer you the possibility to build again the town, but this time you can choose it being Castle alignment.

Once you built pikemens, put them on the square left from the shrine. That's all.

WoG is almost impossible to rate, because it offers infinite possibilities. One person could change Archangels HP to 50, give them 3 speed and you will dislike. Me too. Another could change them to be better than azure dragons and also we will dislike. Most of WoG mapmakers and programmers were interested by the ERM language more than the game itself. Indeed, it is an immersing adventure to study and master it. But the scripts must not be the ultimate goal. Does this tutorial show what is WOG? Yes, at a 1% rate. The 99% remaining are only produced by our fertile imagination. The 1% gave us the tool.

In what is fun for the player to put pikemens on a square to trigger a bridge? Well, isn't more interesting to receive for example increased damage for archangels after fighting some hundred battles with them? It is, and more realistic also. The fun factor come from the fact that every change from the original game should have a purpose, thus giving the feeling of an accomplishment after an exhausting task. With all strategies mastered after a while, HoMM single scenarios do not offer anymore a true challenge. Today maps as TEW I and II, Lord of War, Unleashing, are too easy.

WoG can offer new challenge. How? Up to us to decide a way. ERM allows everything.

Let's take an event from Alexander map which took me several weeks to polish. All related facts will occur in the game mechanics:

After a long and rude 13 years continuous conquest Alexander become sick and his move radius is diminished progressively . His army feel that the leader is going worse and worse and his moral droops, as well as its health. When Alexander dies, the event who kill him must be realistic and unavoidable by any exploit. So I create an army invincible which will be placed on the map at the right moment and take Alexander soul. His body will be lying on ground and one of his faithful generals will have to take care of it and bury it with honour in a sublime ceremony.

A king tomb will be constructed on the map, and when King's body is buried all his accomplishments will be related, as well as a map of his world conquest. The event may sound pompous as related here, but after 12  months of intense playing, battling, defending, exploring into the game,well, you will enjoy this ceremony as a reward. And feel proud also. It is human related.



THAT is WoG.

Place pikemens near shrine? lol

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Pol
Pol


Known Hero
.^.
posted October 25, 2008 09:46 AM
Edited by Pol at 09:49, 25 Oct 2008.

I started with tutorial(good to introduce), followed by campaigns (but soon realized that in this show off it's not my taste) and enjoyed the infamous Cave of Gerfrex. Short, good and funny - that's the material. WoG in his full beauty, at least for me!

So, Angelito, I can heartily recommend you this one, Cave of Gerfrex. Best thing how to started WoG if you're experienced h3 player, and you are.

(it's already included in the WoG install, rpg-battle driven crossbreed)

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted October 25, 2008 10:32 AM

I did exactly what was described in the tutorial (placed pikemen left of that shrine), but nothing happened. I placed them with the hero standing 2 steps left of that shrine, and also when standing on the shrine itself. But still, nothing happened. And no, on the following days neither.
So I conceded it and left it for good.

I started the Alexander map afterwards. Didn't know I had to read a book before I can make my first steps.

But it took me several loads to realize what happened there. How the hell could a Non-WoG player know, there is some kind of "teleporter" hidden on this new kind of terrain obstacles? I ran around for 1 week left and right besides the oracle to make anything happen...
Just by coincidence my hero stepped onto that teleporter and stood in front of that new town. Annoying and frustrating..

Then I went to that "strange" hillfort just to realize my troops could be upgraded to strange named units. How could I know at this point of the game, which "upgrade" is good, and which is better not to be done? Better keep the rogues, or upgrade to centaur captains (or their unusual name there)? Keep the Enchanters, or change them into those red zealots?

I was glad to fight these ogres and behemots without any losses, even though I just found this living "blind" scroll AFTER that fight when I turned back home. When I ran to the north towards this guy having tons of wolf riders in his army, I was expecting another cool fight, but had to realize the game is already over because my time ran up. I decided to go south first when I entered this town, coz I saw these new buildings (found out they were mines) and flagged them. But the quest guard to the north then said: "Go learn playing WoG you noob, otherwise you will need around 12 years and 89 reloads to just finish the first month of this map!"

These things will never happen when you play a good old 200% random XL map on SoD..
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 25, 2008 10:43 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 10:53, 25 Oct 2008.

You started it and this does matter. Now expecting it being easy to navigate from the first try...

Sorry for the long text, there is a good move to do when it pops up, just press Enter key. But maybe you pressed Enter too fast when the mage told you to open the quest guard before day 7?

I sent you the tutorial. Green whirlpools are common objects in WoG. Basically they are monoliths two ways, nothing else. Difficult to spot on grass, I agree. But the horse icon can not betray.

Upgrades: they are explained in the shrine of the lost king (near your first town). Opening the abilities panel is explained in the walkthrough. An enchanter will do 500% more dalmage to effrets/devils while its upgrade, the zealot will do 500% to titans/nagas. That allows armies to be more versatile with different types of invasions. The upgrades are reversible. If you play well, you will never need to upgrade anything. Just ignore the hill forts. It is a script I made to help new players to keep their towns alive when being attacked by 15 different armies each week.

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted October 25, 2008 05:46 PM

Playing customized scenarios (such as Salamandre's), no matter how good they are, might be a bad way to get familiar with WoG. As for Fnord's maps (such as THUNK and the abovementioned Cave of Gerfrex), they offer unique RPG experience... But I suggest you try to wogify a random map. Go to "WoG Options" screen (in the upper right corner, next to the Random Map button). There are a lot of new features, but choose only those you are interested in (Commanders, WoG monsters, some skills enhancements). Don't forget to Save your options in the end (lower right corner).

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Hell_Wizard
Hell_Wizard


Famous Hero
posted October 27, 2008 03:31 PM
Edited by Hell_Wizard at 15:32, 27 Oct 2008.

@Angelito:

If you have WoG 3.58f, then download the WoG 3.58f script update, or else there will (not may) be errors
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 27, 2008 04:30 PM

I'm with Angelito here - he describes exactly my feelings -, however, I wouldn't rate WoG bad for this reasons - after all it IS for free, and it IS a tool, like Salamandre said.

However, I think that replayability is all the higher the LESS scripted things there are. The more extreme the situation and the more "features" a game has the tighter the control has to be to make sure that the game in general and a specific map will still be balanced and work the way they have to work.

That's what I don't like. A game have to retain a certain simplicity at the core to be a really good game - and that simplicity got lost in WoG. More isn't automatically better.

While I think that Wogifying a map is a great tool, I also think that it tends to destroy the balance on maps as well.

So, after a time of testing I went back to clean H3 SoD as well.

The verdict is, that I like H 3 SoD better than H3WoG.

I'd have liked the lost Forge town in Wog or at least another town, which would have been reason for me to play it.
Moreover I would have liked the idea of having more race specific skills like Necromancy - the way H5 went.

For me WoG is definitely not the right way they wen.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 27, 2008 04:45 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 17:03, 27 Oct 2008.

The wogifying process is similar to the random map generator in SoD. It use great tools but in a chaotic way so the result is disappointing. Have you noticed that a good WoG scenario prohibits always wogification?

Thats why people got used to play custom scenarios in SOD more than random maps, and only when random templates were made (the worse thing IMHO because they took away a lot of features which implied randomness and various strategies)they started to play random.

There always was a surprise for me that people continue to play SoD, and in the way they do it. SoD scenarios are now very easy to complete. Random templates took away every single features which could make this game a true challenge. So, what is played now and named SOD is not HoMM3 any more. You all talk about how WoG took away the simplicity of HoMM while playing a different game also, which took away the complexity of SoD. Less is not better, to quote you, JJ. No hit&run, no dimension door/fly, no necro, no logistic heros, no magic heroes, no open maps, no red rush, no diplomacy, no etc. etc. Is this HoMM3? No, it is a different game.

I see threads about mathematic issues in combat mechanics. Very interesting indeed. Nothing to do with HoMM anyway. Give me 2 serpent flies and I can kill your archangel with 250 HP. Give me one effret and I will put to dust your fortress army with the right spell. Just don't tell me there are "rules".

About more scripts making the game less random, I do not agree. It is only question of skill. Bad and numerous scripts will destroy a map anyway. The challenge is to hide a script, so the player will never feel locked in a unique will.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 27, 2008 05:02 PM

I'm not sure I know what you are talking about. Why would SoD now be easier than before? Why would a SoD map be easy to complete now?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 27, 2008 05:05 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 17:07, 27 Oct 2008.

because the game is old, and people got experienced. Every tactical situation was worked, explained and mastered. Maps which made us happy in the past because they were difficult back in time, now can be completed under 6 months at 200%.

So, what you still play then?
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 27, 2008 05:47 PM

I haven't played Homm3 for 2 years now - longer, actually, since before HoMM 5 I put in some Disciples 2 and AoW Shadow Magic plus the odd HoMM 2 game.

I actually was never a friend of these longish maps - the "epic" ones. In my opinion the game tends to get silly when troops are too plentiful, and too open to "exploits" or "trickery" (i.e. ways to beat the "system") which - for me - is no fun, while the maps with heavy role-playing elements tend to ignore the building element which I do not like either.
I mean, it's nice to take a town full of Hydras with a few Elves, an ammo cart, the Ballistics skill and a gate-blocker stack - but you can play this ONCE only. Once you figured the trick out, it becomes old and is just that - a trick. The game is different.

Moreover I like maps where each gold piece and each Goblin is important, not maps where you amass thousands of level 7 creatures.

I've made a couple of maps for SoD myself and they show my prorities.
Dawn of the (Walking) Dead is a small double layer single player map with a time limit of 3 months. You will have a lot of fun playing it ONCE. Maybe you'll want to try and do it better for a second time, but that's it. The map is unusual, but in the end it's not all too difficult - I made it for fun and reference (that you will understand if something clicks with the title).

Another one is Race to Power which is a double layer medium 8 player mp map available in a very interesting allied version as well. It features a couple of original ideas that all amount to the same thing: coupling a maximum of randomness with a multitude of ways to win and making sure that good play will be rewarded.

But I digress.

Actually, playing a Small MP map on Impossible is still pretty hard.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 27, 2008 05:52 PM

Quote:
In my opinion the game tends to get silly when troops are too plentiful, and too open to "exploits" or "trickery" (i.e. ways to beat the "system") which - for me - is no fun,




You are absolutely right! And do you realize that WOG can script a battle situation to prohibit those exploits and tricks? It can.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 27, 2008 06:14 PM

Like what, for example?

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