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| Thread: Weakest faction in the game? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 · «PREV |
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted September 26, 2007 05:55 AM |
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Quote:
I'd say weakest is sylvan. they just can't creep. any map where you can get to the other person w/in a week you can exert major pressure on the poor sylvan.
While I personally don't creep that well with Sylvan I have been outcreeped playing against skilled Sylvan players.
It all comes down to how well you can abuse the a.i. and that's really independent of faction because they all have some abilities that can be used for that purpose.
I've seen people do some things that I certainly wouldn't be able to do.
Take a look at the thread on ubi forums about disputed island on heroic. Zenithale kills several phoenixes with just a couple of treants, some hunters and a bunch of sprites.
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havenlover
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 26, 2007 07:40 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I'd say weakest is sylvan. they just can't creep. any map where you can get to the other person w/in a week you can exert major pressure on the poor sylvan.
While I personally don't creep that well with Sylvan I have been outcreeped playing against skilled Sylvan players.
It all comes down to how well you can abuse the a.i. and that's really independent of faction because they all have some abilities that can be used for that purpose.
I've seen people do some things that I certainly wouldn't be able to do.
Take a look at the thread on ubi forums about disputed island on heroic. Zenithale kills several phoenixes with just a couple of treants, some hunters and a bunch of sprites.
well there's fantastically absurd ways to abuse slow walkers, that can get very creative. the things sylvan has hard times w/ aren't as easy to trick. and I'm not so much talking about what ppl CAN do, like the olympics of sylvan creeping. but what happens game in n out in the trenches.
like what if its day 8 and there's "lots" of master hunters blocking you, thats some serious attrition to takeout if you don't get real lucky. or what if you have to get by 50 elder druids to open up the crystal mine(sylvan needs crystal).
sylvan just has LOTS of creeping issues. like all its units are low hp until level 5. and they have no ressurection ability unless they get expert light AND ressurection. anything ranged or magic, very well might suck, depending on initiative luck, luck with the luck skill, etc. I know w/ haven I have a badass first aid tent, a ballista that can allow me to not even put marksman in the fight, AND if all that fails I can train extra units if I suffer some attrition. sylvan has none of that.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted September 26, 2007 08:46 AM |
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Sylvan has no Warmachines? Imbued Ballista would beg do differ.
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havenlover
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 26, 2007 08:51 AM |
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Sylvan has no Warmachines? Imbued Ballista would beg do differ.
they have no hero w/ war machines and a 2% chance of acquiring it. best to differ w/ what I mean, keeps threads shorter .
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted September 26, 2007 12:00 PM |
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like what if its day 8 and there's "lots" of master hunters blocking you, thats some serious attrition to takeout if you don't get real lucky. or what if you have to get by 50 elder druids to open up the crystal mine(sylvan needs crystal).
Who doesn't have a problem with those guys this early?
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted September 26, 2007 12:13 PM |
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Sylvan is a very creep dependant town. Walkers/flyers are owned by Ossir's hunters but shooters/casters may not be easy.
Things to do vs casters:
1. Split 7 fodders, imbue arrow + a destructive spell.
2. Same as 1. but split 7 fodders are replaced by up to split 7 druid elders that cast lightning bolt. Generally, losing elders is not that bad as it looks because later they are mainly spellcasters.
One turn/spellpower less of endurance/lightning bolt won't be a big loss in the long run.
3. Split 4 stacks of unicorns, 2 elder stack, 1 master hunter stack. Placing:
UUDUUHUUUU
UU-UUDUUUU
1st turn move unicorns so that it's
---UU-UU--
---UU-UU--
--DUUHUU--
---UUDUU--
This is the "ideal" placement that is not always possible because of terrain obstacles. Each unicorn can save master hunters so (master)hunter's magic resistance equals:
1-(100%-30%)^4 + 15%(perk) = 91%
Elders have 1-(100%-30%)^2 + 15%(perk) = 66% but they are less attractive for AI so it probably won't matter anyway.
So, generally sylvan can handle shooters/casters but it's risky.. Also, sometimes it's good to take destructive(in a quick game) and then use magical immunity+hunters+arma combo for creeping or, if no magical immunity, use 4(maybe 5) stacks of unicorns, place them in a box formation and use arma - they should protect each other nicely.
Even destructive doesn't necesserily really suck for sylvan late game - master of fire + arma halfs the defense. So, even compared to other sylvan skills it may be far from useless if it meant better creeping/less loses/more troops.
About other races and killing MH and casters: necro laugh at everyting, academy with right spells too, 7 fodder + (empowered) warlock's spells should be enough too, fortress has ingvar and even if they somehow had problems they can take war machines, haven laughs at them with guardian angel and war machines, inferno just needs war machines.
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havenlover
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 26, 2007 12:15 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
like what if its day 8 and there's "lots" of master hunters blocking you, thats some serious attrition to takeout if you don't get real lucky. or what if you have to get by 50 elder druids to open up the crystal mine(sylvan needs crystal).
Who doesn't have a problem with those guys this early?
lotsa ppl handle them better. vittorio/haven, you have a first aid tent to ressurect the marksman, and the squires to block half the damage, and even if u stil get some attrition you can train marksman. as haven the only thing worth fearing are elder druids or large amts of archmages(more than your first aid tent can handle). elder druids are vicious.
necro, raise dead+block should work fine.
academy, depends on how badass ur hero is. etc blah blah.
but it all goes back to a similar point, there are numerous things that are advantageous in aggressive creeping: sylvan really don't get any of them. low hp units that can't be ressurected combined with a hero that can't deliver much damage unless you try to get destructive, whcih isn't fun because later you won't have the spellpower for it.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 26, 2007 01:33 PM |
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Come on now. How many factions can take on casters with few casualties? Academy and necro sure. Dwarves if they get rune of charge and are lucky too.
Which else? Suppose haven gets warmachines(not Vittorio) then what? Yay they got a mine a week faster and will have a minor advantage at the cost of a more useful skill. If haven could boost a ballista adequately I'd say it is worth but it does not.
And as for losses and training no you can't spare them. When sylvan come knocking with avenger you'll wish you had more units. What you describe can only be worth it in earlygame.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted September 26, 2007 04:50 PM |
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It just depends when will the main battle take place.
Week 1 and 2 - sylvan is in trouble: ballista is strong, "spellpower" spells are strong etc, tent resurrects relatively a lot, troops quantity is not high so might stats don't matter that much.
week 3 - probably a fair fight but it depends on artifacts, available dwellings, map richness.
week 4 - sylvan probably starts to dominate vs most factions. Might stats start to dominate, light magic(mass haste = bane of all magic heroes) starts to dominate. "Spellpower" spells becomes much weaker, tent ressurrects like nothing, ballista does weak damage.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted September 26, 2007 05:48 PM |
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Concerning 7 Fodders:
From my experience the druids/hunters in 4 stacks will kill all your fodder before the 4th turn, even if you kill 1 stack/turn.
I'd say simply pick an easier fight, unless it's really necessary.
Any faction will have losses in such a fight, powerfull hero or not.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted September 26, 2007 07:42 PM |
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A warlock can get stone spikes and it will hit 2 stacks out of 4.
For might heroes there won't be loses vs master hunters/casters if exp war machines -> tent, ballista are taken. For magic heroes there won't be loses if summon elemental spell is used.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted September 27, 2007 11:35 AM |
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Quote:
A warlock can get stone spikes and it will hit 2 stacks out of 4.
For might heroes there won't be loses vs master hunters/casters if exp war machines -> tent, ballista are taken. For magic heroes there won't be loses if summon elemental spell is used.
I think we've already discussed this 
You're probably right you will only loose 4/5 fodder with warlock vs hunters. War machine specialist might loose even less. Vs druids it's another story.
With Sylvan I'd just try to boost morale and split my blade dancers/sprites in a few stacks, giving them a high chance of getting to the hunters before they get to shoot. Vs druids it's a no go crystal mine or not.
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