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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: 86wyp and his MMR
Thread: 86wyp and his MMR This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV
Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 14, 2007 10:09 PM

But it's nice to learn something new right? Good that one has the courage to say he had been mistaken though It is very difficult to understand because one is really not used to playing like that before in any Heroes game.. Thinking out of the box, so to speak.

You got me craving for more screenshots and battlereports

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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted February 14, 2007 11:00 PM

I will add a positive report.

I tried Peninsula on hard as the wizard with a random hero.  I got Jhora.  I didn't have much of a problem securing resources and the sorcery was nice.  I went with dark/summoning.  I liked how my powers (SP and K) increased very rapidly.  I was able to withstand the assault of three different enemy heroes and managed to bring a couple of titans toward my final battle.  Unfortuantely I took a wrong turn and ended up losing a bunch of my army for no reason but I probably would have won the map.
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted February 14, 2007 11:13 PM

Seems like the only faction that can match the academy's speed is Inferno. And the endgame offered by inferno is also amazing. So, it's back to Deleb, I guess. -_-

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted February 15, 2007 01:53 AM

Well, what can I say. With Nur everything is possible
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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted February 15, 2007 10:53 AM

The mmr tactic can be good, but academy heroes seem to get screwed by poor hero development quite often.And 2% logistics really slows their creeping from week 2,3 onwards as they usually can't get it.

Just had a game where i was academy/havez versus sylvan vinrael.
I had really rare high attack 19 and defence 17, and knowledge 42, which= +11 attack,def and 42% initiative on the titans. Still they(20 titans) only managed to kill 2-3 dragons/shot 4-6 with luck, while 20dragons kill almost 20 titans with luck and f.enemy which really is sick to see. All academy troops had level 3 arties on at knowledge 42.

Academy still managed a hard win though but because opponent had no magical immunity/mass cleansing. But if it was available, fight will be different story.
The fight took place in a 2 town map at week 7.

What would the skills for academy advised to learn against sylvan in the end game? Any advices ??
That game, havez had war machine, dark, light, socery and englightment. Ahh.. no summoning, because there was phoenix in map, so deadeye shot will prolly kill phoenix easily.

On a side note.. i don't really understand what's so good about titans Even wearing full artifacts, they still can't seem to match up with the other level 7s because of range penalty in particular and poor att/def of hero.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted February 15, 2007 11:10 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 11:10, 15 Feb 2007.

Quote:

On a side note.. i don't really understand what's so good about titans Even wearing full artifacts, they still can't seem to match up with the other level 7s because of range penalty in particular and poor att/def of hero.



Range penalty makes their damage equal to nightmares (without horde building), so they are meant to fight at closer ranges, but the combat field is very small and its likely they will get blocked anyway, so think about them as a melee fighter with an ability to shot.Thankfully, mo penalty makes up for it a bit. Big shooters suck horribly, because you can't surround them with other units, which makes their ranged attack easy to stop by blocking them (and it's good to block them since ranged attack still grants no retaliation..)

By the way, just reached 15 ATT with Deleb in second week. It is sick x]

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted February 15, 2007 01:07 PM

The main point about Academy's wizards is that they don't need an army that much. Provided with right spells they are excellent creepers and one of them(Nur) is probably the best main hero for about every faction - for example as Necro's main she gets some nice Dark and Summoning spells from guild and she can combine them with MotW, infinite mana, Vamp Lords and many other goodies.

If a battle takes place at 7th week it's good to develop secondary heroes and give them some high level spells like Frenzy or Armageddon and then send them against opponent's main. Of course, it's quite lame so it's better to ask before doing so

Last but not least, there is no special need to use a wizard as main hero because he can artificer his troops and then give this whole artificered army to a nicely developed knight or some other good might hero.
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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted February 15, 2007 01:28 PM

She probably gives slightly easier creeping than other heroes except the war machine ones like havez, deleb or victorio.
But equal creeping from other levels, of course higher suicidal rate, will result in nur getting smashed in the late game.
If she doesn't have large army, she probably can't survive past her heroes turn.

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted February 15, 2007 01:35 PM

True, but with Blind/Resurrection all she needs is one surviving unit and she will resurect evertything ending up with full mana. That's not really fair..
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 15, 2007 01:50 PM

With units of 86% decreased health!
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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted February 15, 2007 02:04 PM

Quote:
True, but with Blind/Resurrection all she needs is one surviving unit and she will resurect evertything ending up with full mana. That's not really fair..


Bring ur troops and stand on the tile u have killed
She can't resurrect then

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted February 15, 2007 05:04 PM

I mean creeping not a main battle - she will easily win many fights with no losses and full mana that other heroes simply can't.
As a magic hero she is not the best main.. sure MotW + Frenzy or something else can be good but serious might stats shortage remains.
So, generally she will be owned by cleansing and/or other mass spells in final battle.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 15, 2007 05:39 PM

The main idea is that you will have more than one schools of magic so you can counter enemy dispelling. And this way you'll have a lvl superior to your opponent's to the point you can choose when the final battle takes place. The faster the better.
Of course with more than 2 players and long distances between then it's not as simple but there will always be things you can exploit. I once made the mistake to wait more than I should and I was attacked by a fully upgraded army of an inferno hero which would have defeated me easily if the player was human. Inferno has a crazy damage output and creatures with high speed-as a result your army may die long before you run out of mana. Banish does not dismiss a whole gated stack either.
I could say I have a doubt: Go for your enemies fast or flag all mines first? The latter has a failsafe should your rush fails yet the opponent could go straight to your castle when you flag mines. On the other hand you may guess wrong the opponent's direction which is a disaster if he has logistics.
In any case you can just attack something and flee, considering you'll almost never have much of an army. My exploration nature conflicts with the MMR ideals! Which will prevail?
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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grow
grow


Adventuring Hero
posted February 16, 2007 11:46 PM

was a good new thing to try out, never actually tried myself taking all magics before

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 17, 2007 12:02 AM

Well, all might create problems but 2 or 3 works fine. I usually go for sorcery, 2 schools and enlightenment for a bit of spellpower. If I get enlightenment early and I know the opponent is not near I'd invest in it first to give me a better lvl advantage. plus the extra knowledge makes for good arties later. In shorter face-offs I feel enlightenment is expendable so I focus on the others.
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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supphanat
supphanat


Hired Hero
posted February 17, 2007 12:20 AM

Quote:
was a good new thing to try out, never actually tried myself taking all magics before


No no the concept of this strategy is not taking all magic schools but to make your hero as powerful as possible, i.e. you give the priority to level up your hero more than developing your town and your creatures and try to kill your enermy with your magic power (in my understanding). About the magic school, you should choose according to what spell you have in your town.

As Evin said, I will develope enlightenment first and I will wait until I finish building mage guild first to decide what magic school I will learn. I might take all magic school if the spells that I want are in all magic schools or I may choose not to learn any magic school if the spell that I want is not available (this is quite rare though).
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baniaque1
baniaque1

Tavern Dweller
posted February 20, 2007 04:55 PM

I have played couple of games with MMR strategy and it attracts me more and more. I have tried about 15 - 20 games, different scenarios, some vs other player, some vs comp, i must admit, its getting better for me every next game i use it, really, no matter if its comp or human (vs comp is much more easier ofc) its very nice to play with it, easy to creep, and always option for fast win, you just have to be brave enough to attack with your mediocore army

I usually start with Havez, and then try to get any random good hero, like Jhora, Nur, Nathir or other (not many good left), only to give him all Havez`s gremlins and machines, and make him the main hero.

I can say from my small experience, that when you have phoenix, nothing can stop you, if you dont... playing correctly you can win too, just you have to know how to use magic, its important:

- not to use magic when it is not necessary - i.e. when creeping, you can often rely only on your gremlins, and save mana, just keep shooting them with your physical attack, sometimes it will be enough dmg along with gremlins, this way you can do it "my way"  -  take ore and wood mines first two days, build some magic (1-2), then visit town, regain your mana (at that moment its gaining about 50 mana points, assuming you are level 3-4 after 2 days), upgrade gremlins and go creeping, come back when whole (almost whole) map is owned, and magic 5 is built, you can just go outside after having learned lvl-2 spells, and own all map without visiting your town. Its very useful when you fight neutrals, not to use mana every fight, because you can you just deliver some reinforcements to your main hero, and wander through almost whole map, if you meet some reckon, or even main hero of your opponent, you will probably win the duel due to your taking exps from chests just try to save mana in every 1 of 3 fights, and you will be able to conquer the map, get all free/almost free stuff, even from opp territory, without the need of coming back to town or well.
It is very useful creeping method, taking chests results in more chests, youre about 3 levels ahead of your opponent, so its no big problem to wander on enemy territory in week one, or two (im not saying i do it every time, only that it happens sometimes) - you dont need big army to feel safe, your golems&gargoyles are enough to defend, magic/gremlins is your weapon.

- when facing hordes of neutral marksmen/crossbowmen in early game - i rather place only gargoyles/golems at the battlefield and do the thing with magic, saving all gremlins for a really big stack, its no problem for me to lose even 10 or so golems/gargs, because i use them most of the time as shields for shooters, so small amount is ok also, usually my loses with shooters in week 1-2 are like 5 gargoyles or 4 golems (both unupped). It can also work with hunters and masterhunters, although its harder a bit , and sometimes you just have to lose some shooters too
in my last game on former friends i was able to learn ressurection in week 2 and went on the desert in day 10 or so, beating at the bridge horde of upped succubus with repairing golems and ressurecting gremlins, i lost 3 units from each stack

- summon magic - the most important - seems good to have all schools of magic in your skill tree, but summon is most important, its not only phoenix which is absolutely powerful ender, but also low level summon spells, which you can use in creeping, and you just have to use in creeping, in those cases when you dont have luck to get arrow, bolt, ice or fire early on. Watch for firetrap/wasp swarm - they can be incredibly effective in early game, just go for adv or expert summoning, and you can creep without destructive easily. Phantom forces are also very good.

This is very good strategy imo, i am not very familiar with all that magic tricks wizard can make (with motw, which i use mostly for destructive only), but when played by expert player it can be devastating, and very fast. I like it very much and want to improve it, because it can be useful in online multiplayer games, where most people prefer shorter games, on richer and smaller maps, which favorize MMR.

The main problem in my play is that somethimes when my lvl 1-2 spells are poor, i have to go back to town once more, just to learn high level spells which i need to beat some ugly neutrals, like hunters, druids and so on. Normally, i need lvl 4-5 spells mainly for the battle with the opponent, but in some cases i just have to go back for summon elementals or phantom forces, because neutrals are to strong and my low magic sucks. On some maps, that slows me very much, and when i play it with my friends, they know i play MMR, so they also creep very fast, and spare some chests on exp, and it turns out that i am creeping and leveling slower then they are, due to my comeback to town, and that results in autoloose.

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supphanat
supphanat


Hired Hero
posted February 20, 2007 05:34 PM
Edited by supphanat at 17:48, 20 Feb 2007.

Quote:
I have played couple of games with MMR strategy and it attracts me more and more. I have tried about 15 - 20 games, different scenarios, some vs other player, some vs comp, i must admit, its getting better for me every next game i use it, really, no matter if its comp or human (vs comp is much more easier ofc) its very nice to play with it, easy to creep, and always option for fast win, you just have to be brave enough to attack with your mediocore army

I usually start with Havez, and then try to get any random good hero, like Jhora, Nur, Nathir or other (not many good left), only to give him all Havez`s gremlins and machines, and make him the main hero.

I can say from my small experience, that when you have phoenix, nothing can stop you, if you dont... playing correctly you can win too, just you have to know how to use magic, its important:

- not to use magic when it is not necessary - i.e. when creeping, you can often rely only on your gremlins, and save mana, just keep shooting them with your physical attack, sometimes it will be enough dmg along with gremlins, this way you can do it "my way"  -  take ore and wood mines first two days, build some magic (1-2), then visit town, regain your mana (at that moment its gaining about 50 mana points, assuming you are level 3-4 after 2 days), upgrade gremlins and go creeping, come back when whole (almost whole) map is owned, and magic 5 is built, you can just go outside after having learned lvl-2 spells, and own all map without visiting your town. Its very useful when you fight neutrals, not to use mana every fight, because you can you just deliver some reinforcements to your main hero, and wander through almost whole map, if you meet some reckon, or even main hero of your opponent, you will probably win the duel due to your taking exps from chests just try to save mana in every 1 of 3 fights, and you will be able to conquer the map, get all free/almost free stuff, even from opp territory, without the need of coming back to town or well.
It is very useful creeping method, taking chests results in more chests, youre about 3 levels ahead of your opponent, so its no big problem to wander on enemy territory in week one, or two (im not saying i do it every time, only that it happens sometimes) - you dont need big army to feel safe, your golems&gargoyles are enough to defend, magic/gremlins is your weapon.

- when facing hordes of neutral marksmen/crossbowmen in early game - i rather place only gargoyles/golems at the battlefield and do the thing with magic, saving all gremlins for a really big stack, its no problem for me to lose even 10 or so golems/gargs, because i use them most of the time as shields for shooters, so small amount is ok also, usually my loses with shooters in week 1-2 are like 5 gargoyles or 4 golems (both unupped). It can also work with hunters and masterhunters, although its harder a bit , and sometimes you just have to lose some shooters too
in my last game on former friends i was able to learn ressurection in week 2 and went on the desert in day 10 or so, beating at the bridge horde of upped succubus with repairing golems and ressurecting gremlins, i lost 3 units from each stack

- summon magic - the most important - seems good to have all schools of magic in your skill tree, but summon is most important, its not only phoenix which is absolutely powerful ender, but also low level summon spells, which you can use in creeping, and you just have to use in creeping, in those cases when you dont have luck to get arrow, bolt, ice or fire early on. Watch for firetrap/wasp swarm - they can be incredibly effective in early game, just go for adv or expert summoning, and you can creep without destructive easily. Phantom forces are also very good.

This is very good strategy imo, i am not very familiar with all that magic tricks wizard can make (with motw, which i use mostly for destructive only), but when played by expert player it can be devastating, and very fast. I like it very much and want to improve it, because it can be useful in online multiplayer games, where most people prefer shorter games, on richer and smaller maps, which favorize MMR.

The main problem in my play is that somethimes when my lvl 1-2 spells are poor, i have to go back to town once more, just to learn high level spells which i need to beat some ugly neutrals, like hunters, druids and so on. Normally, i need lvl 4-5 spells mainly for the battle with the opponent, but in some cases i just have to go back for summon elementals or phantom forces, because neutrals are to strong and my low magic sucks. On some maps, that slows me very much, and when i play it with my friends, they know i play MMR, so they also creep very fast, and spare some chests on exp, and it turns out that i am creeping and leveling slower then they are, due to my comeback to town, and that results in autoloose.



Actually, with this strategy, you can beat high level creatures like (lots) mages or hunters within the first week as well. In my game, I used only motw+arrow spell. This comes with the cost of all my golems&gargoyles though. However, my hero is Nur so I have unlimited mana to cast the spell. Maybe this is the different.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 20, 2007 05:41 PM

Yeah, not having an icebold/lightning in mage guild 2 may halt you for a while.
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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