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| Thread: What are the worst skills in game and how u would change them? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
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posted February 08, 2007 02:46 PM |
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That's quite a list.
Could possibly someone give a short summary of how bad these are? Haven't tried all of them.
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supphanat
Hired Hero
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posted February 08, 2007 02:54 PM |
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- Scholar: It is only useful to avoid to go back to mage guild when you want to learn new spells but often your weaker heroes can't learn the spell they should transfer to the main hero, so it is not very useful.
Solution: Hero can still swap spells and additionally learns a spell for every 5 levelups (similar to enlightenment). if this spell should be random or the highest spell you can learn or depending on hero level must be balanced carefully, of course.
- Dark Ritual: Spending a whole day to regain mana is too much for the main hero in most cases.
Solution 1: Make it usable in combat, e.g. hero spends two turns to get 1/2 of his maximum mana back (he cannot have more than 1/2 of his max. mana after using this skill to prevent abuse)
Solution 2: Hero spends only 1/2 day
I agree with free spell addition. This also allows the strategy for each fraction to be more variety and of course, more fun. For example, you may create dark-magic warlocks and let them learn the spell from scholar. In this way, you don't have to be bored with destructive-magic warlock all the time.
For warlock, I also want to comment about their racial skill. It is too restricted to the destructive magic. Actually, the irresistible magic should be applied to every spell. So that amadragon can come back. First, use amagedon and then use resurruct to call back their own dragon. Of course, the spell power for resurrection is reduced accordingly but it opens the way to use amadragon again and it is still balanced because warlock needs two turn and the lost of the mana from two spells to do the process. Also warlock has less change to learn resurrection even from the modified scholar mentioned above.
This also opens the way for the warlock to be dark-light-magic warlock, not just only destructive-summon-magic warlock. Of course, the spell power reduce accordingly depending on irresistible ability and magic protection.
For dark ritual, I agree that the skill should be moved in the combat but I think 1/2 full mana is too much. Actually, warlock should spend 1/2 turn (like other mark skill for other fraction) and gain the mana equal to Mystic skill. This is balanced because Mystic skill requires no turn to restore the mana but this requires 1/2 turn. And the regained mana is not too much. Only 7 per turn at level 20.
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted February 08, 2007 02:58 PM |
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So let me do a summary of crappy skills:
those in blue are subjected to personal opinion
Elemental Balance
Master of Earthblood
corrupted soil
dark renewal
recruitment
soulfire
chilling bones
last stand
cold death
guardian angel
tear of asha vision
corrupted soil does 3 times hero level damage to the opponent creature every time it walks only. lvl 25 hero would yield damage of 75!?!?
dark renewal basically allows you to redeem *some* mana if your spells are resisted and not lose all your hero's intiative (depending on dark magic mastery) Like what the hell?!
soulfire's the worst of all. when a demon lord consumes corpse to gain mana, this stupid fireball cast with spellpower of 1 or 2 appears. Soooooo much damage and use...
chilling bones reflects 5 percentof enemy damage back to them.
last stand lets your last creature that will originally die from an enemy blow survive with 1 hp. and that certainly will turn the tide of battle.
cold death is a joke, makes icebolt or circle of winter powerful by making sure it killsat least a creature...
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Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
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posted February 08, 2007 03:02 PM |
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Edited by Darkeye at 15:05, 08 Feb 2007.
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Thanks for the answers:
I'll try to steer away from these in the future 
Scolar works great together with mentoring with the dwarves (but only them), since the secondary heroes level up togehter with the main hero. Runes are also transfered (Try Inga who learns runes spontanously and therefore can give the other runes without a runce guild)
Arcane Intuition is worse. Eagle eye was always the most crappy skill ever in H2 and H3. I can't think of once it has helped me. In H5, the only good thing about it is that you learn from creatures you are fighting.
Dark Ritual is only useful for those heroes who get more than max mana of using it.
How does Tear of Asha vision actually work???
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supphanat
Hired Hero
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posted February 08, 2007 03:19 PM |
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Quote:
So let me do a summary of crappy skills:
those in blue are subjected to personal opinion
Elemental Balance
Master of Earthblood
corrupted soil
dark renewal
recruitment
soulfire
chilling bones
last stand
cold death
guardian angel
tear of asha vision
Actually, Elemental Balance is the great anti-summon magic spell. With this skill, the enemys cannot use summon (elemental and pheonix) spell. Otherwise, meet their own power. Good for knights that they cannot use summon magic and don't want their enemys to use this magic.
For the Master of Earthblood skill, I think someone has mentioned about this. The Earthquake spell should have somehow related to the spell power.
recruitment and tear of asha vision are good but for the second hero.
corrupted soil
dark renewal
soulfire
chilling bones
last stand
cold death
guardian angel
They are good with the specific strategy.
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supphanat
Hired Hero
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posted February 08, 2007 03:30 PM |
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Quote:
Thanks for the answers:
I'll try to steer away from these in the future
Scolar works great together with mentoring with the dwarves (but only them), since the secondary heroes level up togehter with the main hero. Runes are also transfered (Try Inga who learns runes spontanously and therefore can give the other runes without a runce guild)
Arcane Intuition is worse. Eagle eye was always the most crappy skill ever in H2 and H3. I can't think of once it has helped me. In H5, the only good thing about it is that you learn from creatures you are fighting.
Dark Ritual is only useful for those heroes who get more than max mana of using it.
How does Tear of Asha vision actually work???
I think Arcane Intuition is good but it really depends on luck and this luck chance is very low. Some magics can really change the result of the combat so it is good to open another way to learn them while they don't exist in your own guild.
Tear of Asha vision allows you to get Tear of Asha from 5x5 area that you are standing, not necessary to be exactly the spot that you are standing.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 08, 2007 03:40 PM |
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Sorry to break this to you guys, but you just whine too much.
Maybe if instead of looking for the worst skill you would be looking for the best way to use this skill you wouldn't have so much trouble.
Seriously, while there are a few skills that look very crappy, most of the skills that are in the game can be used to your advantage and really help you in battle.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 08, 2007 03:47 PM |
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I see a massive misunderstanding here..
Cold death adds +1 killed creatures, not "confirms that it kills something", just like vorpal sword, so, it adds like 200 damage if you use it against level 7 creatures. Has its uses against summon phoenix, too.
Guardian Angel is a powerful skill. If the battle was equal and one side won with, say, 20 zombies remaining, guardian angel of level 20 hero can bring like 5 archangels back, which can ressurect 10 paladins.. Now tell me, is that a bad skill? Certainly not.
Corrupted soil, soulfire, chilling bones - these skills suck horribly, that's a fact. The damage is simply too low.
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted February 08, 2007 04:03 PM |
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Quote:
I see a massive misunderstanding here..
Cold death adds +1 killed creatures, not "confirms that it kills something", just like vorpal sword, so, it adds like 200 damage if you use it against level 7 creatures. Has its uses against summon phoenix, too.
True, and don't forget you can destroy a catapult with one frostring/circle of winter or ice bolt (and deleb's war machines, too )
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open source for an open mind
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supphanat
Hired Hero
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posted February 08, 2007 04:09 PM |
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Quote:
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I see a massive misunderstanding here..
Cold death adds +1 killed creatures, not "confirms that it kills something", just like vorpal sword, so, it adds like 200 damage if you use it against level 7 creatures. Has its uses against summon phoenix, too.
True, and don't forget you can destroy a catapult with one frostring/circle of winter or ice bolt (and deleb's war machines, too )
True as you said and don't forget if all that units that you said are lying in a circle. You can also kill all of them in one shot.
In Neco campaign, I used this ability to kill Titan and I found that with this ability, the ice bolt can do almost the same damage as implosion with addition freezing effect.
As I said every skill is good with the specific strategy.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted February 09, 2007 04:03 AM |
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I like most of the skills, though I miss tactics.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
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posted February 09, 2007 03:34 PM |
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Miss tactics? What do you mean?
I think they could have considered (maybe they did though ) that the Tactic ability let you put out the troops after the enemy, Would that be too powerful? Certainly more fun that way.
Thanks for the Cold death discussion. I see how great it is if you can kill a summoned phoenix with 1000 hp with one ice bolt. I will consider using destructive magic next time I play necros.
Regarding the warlocks and irr-magic, I think it is pretty balanced. If you recruit a warlock in a game without dungeons, the elemental vision is useless and dark ritual isn't much either, so you stay on basic irr-magic+empowered spells and "only" do 20% damage with you armageddon. Great for dwarwen towns where you can mentor a warlock, give her armageddon and a bunch of lavas/magmas.
And yes, making irr magic apply to other spells wouldn't hurt. Irr magic would have been better that way.
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Dungeonian
Adventuring Hero
Supreme matriarch
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posted February 10, 2007 06:20 PM |
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Dark ritual in current edition is almost worthless perk , it wasts a full daily move points of main hero for only refresh his/her normal mana pool . I think , if it would be improwed either for refreshing double mana or for only 50% wasting move points for refreshing normal mana , this ability becomes usefull , but not overpowered .
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The Darkness is the right hand of the Light , the Light is the left hand of the Darkness .
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blink
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 10, 2007 07:11 PM |
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I know this thread is a bit old but I had to bring it up when I realized no one had mentioned what I consider to be the worst ability of all time: Master of Earthblood.
This ability claims to increase spellpower of Fire Trap and Earthquake by +4.
Earthquake! EARTHQUAKE!!! What the hell is Nival talking about?! This spell is not affected by spell power. Its damage is entirely dependant on the level of summoning mastery you possess. It might as well say it increases the spellpower of earthquake by +10,000. While it's at it, it could increase the spell power of phantom forces too. Nival has improved several of the skills throughout the patches but this one's never been mentioned!
All the ability really does it increase the spellpower of Fire Trap by +4. While Fire Trap is not as useless as many people probably think, it's certainly not all that great of a spell. You will use it extremely rarely, and even then, usually only versus neutrals when you know the path they're going to take and you can lay 8 mines, and you can guarantee where most of them are going to show up (like if there are only 12 passable tiles in the 5 x 5 square). This skill is not only flat out terrible, but half of its alleged ability does absolutely NOTHING. Even the instruction book published by this site (which by the way I think is fantastic) seems to have overlooked this problem because it notes that earthquake's spellpower can be increased by +4 but it doesn't bother to say that this makes no sense.
To make this skill a little better, it should at least increase Firewall by +4 instead of earthquake. Not that this would make it a great skill, but at least it would make sense. In fact, the 3 basic abilities that go with so summoning are incredibly uncreative and they should probably all be changed just so they can be more interesting (and the only one that's good is master of conjuration anyway).
Earthquake does damage to creatures inside the castle(behind castle walls) if you have the special ability "tremors." The damage done is dependent on spellpower, so Master of Earthblood does enhance Earthquake's effect if you have that skill.
True, but the damage of tremors is 10 + 5(Spell Power). Thus, master of earthblood increases damage by 20, which is pathetic. The real use of tremors is its stunning ability, not its damage. This is also avoiding the fact that only 3 heroes can even get tremors and NONE are likely to actually do so since you'd have to give up both first aid tent and ballista abilities (unless you're a warlock in which case you'd only have to give up one of those, but that's still not so good). Who gets war machines and then decides they don't want first aid and ballista? Considering the extremely high numbers of factors that have to go a certain way and the fact that even if you do decide to get tremors AND summonging magic AND master of earthblood, the damage is changed by such a tiny amount shows how ridiculously useless this ability is.
I understand that most abilities can be used depending on certain strategies but this is one ability (or at least the half dealing with earthquake) that is absolutely useless (not that the half dealing with fire trap is that much better).
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Darksequence
Hired Hero
For great justice!
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posted February 10, 2007 10:06 PM |
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While we're at it can somebody tell what the use for dark revelation is?
It seems its only useful to get the necro ultimate ability, or to get an additional stat point when you reach an uneven level with enlightenment.
Otherwise it just makes your next level more difficult to obtain...
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supphanat
Hired Hero
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posted February 11, 2007 03:00 AM |
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Quote:
While we're at it can somebody tell what the use for dark revelation is?
It seems its only useful to get the necro ultimate ability, or to get an additional stat point when you reach an uneven level with enlightenment.
Otherwise it just makes your next level more difficult to obtain...
Hey free level up is not trivial. The best use of this skill is to wait until you have high level (Optimally, level 32) and then take this skill.
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Darksequence
Hired Hero
For great justice!
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posted February 11, 2007 04:36 AM |
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Quote:
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While we're at it can somebody tell what the use for dark revelation is?
It seems its only useful to get the necro ultimate ability, or to get an additional stat point when you reach an uneven level with enlightenment.
Otherwise it just makes your next level more difficult to obtain...
Hey free level up is not trivial. The best use of this skill is to wait until you have high level (Optimally, level 32) and then take this skill.
Sorry but I'm at a loss here, could you give an example?
Free lvl up will make the summon phoenix spell a bit better and give skills like corrupted soil a small bonus but choosing it over the far more useful intelligence (since you've already chosen scholar(!) and lord of undead) with a necromancer seems well... not so intelligent .
Also I've never reached lvl 32, might be possible in a campaign (I didnt play them) but not in most maps and even when you do reach a high lvl you must be lucky enough to get it.
Even If you do you will need additional xp for next lvl up, lets say you reach lvl 25 and choose dark revelation, lvl25->lvl26=44k lvl26->lvl27=64k of xp needed, lvl25->lvl26 would be 'free' you would then be lvl26 and choose a skill or perk as normal.
But to get the next skill upgrade or perk (lvl27) would then cost an additional 20k of xp since without dark rev you would need to advance from lvl25 to lvl26 only 44k of xp..
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supphanat
Hired Hero
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posted February 11, 2007 07:06 AM |
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Quote:
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While we're at it can somebody tell what the use for dark revelation is?
It seems its only useful to get the necro ultimate ability, or to get an additional stat point when you reach an uneven level with enlightenment.
Otherwise it just makes your next level more difficult to obtain...
Hey free level up is not trivial. The best use of this skill is to wait until you have high level (Optimally, level 32) and then take this skill.
Sorry but I'm at a loss here, could you give an example?
Free lvl up will make the summon phoenix spell a bit better and give skills like corrupted soil a small bonus but choosing it over the far more useful intelligence (since you've already chosen scholar(!) and lord of undead) with a necromancer seems well... not so intelligent.
Also I've never reached lvl 32, might be possible in a campaign (I didnt play them) but not in most maps and even when you do reach a high lvl you must be lucky enough to get it.
Even If you do you will need additional xp for next lvl up, lets say you reach lvl 25 and choose dark revelation, lvl25->lvl26=44k lvl26->lvl27=64k of xp needed, lvl25->lvl26 would be 'free' you would then be lvl26 and choose a skill or perk as normal.
But to get the next skill upgrade or perk (lvl27) would then cost an additional 20k of xp since without dark rev you would need to advance from lvl25 to lvl26 only 44k of xp..
Well, you have mentioned about ultimate skill in the first question so I thought you meant playing campaign. If you think you cannot reach ultimate skill anyway, maybe dark revelation would not be a good choice unless you cannot find somewhere else better to put the point. However, I will never choose intelligence when I am playing undead anyway.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted October 29, 2007 09:52 AM |
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With Memory Mentors now out most skills can have their uses. Take the level up skill. Take it, forget it, and get something else. Thus you have a free level up, and a now useful skill. However, some skills do need serious tweaking. Like Leadership with Necromancers. As for earthquake, if you play a town that gets a 2% chance at warmachines, it can be very useful. So adding tremors and the +4 spellpower could be very useful. However, I agree that the skill is not very useful generally. Still if you have to get it or something like say leadership...at least you can forget it later at the MM. 
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Message received.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted October 29, 2007 10:42 AM |
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This has probably been talked already but I cannot manage to cope with the fact that after 2 expansions this game still has worthless skills and weird skill paths.I believe all skills should be useful to an extent. But there still exist some of them which are simply pathetic. They should be either removed from the game or reworked.
A few examples of skills I find useless:
Tremors: you get an earthquake at no proficiency, which does minor damage to all creeps inside. Why would you waste a skill on something like this completely escapes me. Not to mention you have much better skill choices in the war machines departement.
Soulfire: what a crap. a fireball with 1 spellpower that damages your troops too in the remote event you need to eat a corpse. What the hell is that?
Scolar: could have some uses for a secondary hero... but so little... It should be combined with Arcane Intuition, which is not that great neither since they removed the possibility of learning spells from your own creatures.
Plague Tent: this is pure gold. Not to mention that a tent with only 3 heals rapidly loses its efficiency.
Leadership for Necro: here's an everyday pick...
Anyway these are only a few examples...Another thing that's been bugging me is the weird skill paths in order to obtain some perks. And I won't even go into the requirements for the ultimate abilities.
It is a shame when for a good ability like Cold Steel you now have to have Master of Ice and implicitly Destructive Magic.
Also in Destructive, for Inferno, I notices Fiery Wrath. A good addition to them. Unfortunately, you must get Secrets of Destruction which boosts your knowledge... your best stat I might add...
Searing Fires being left out. A better skill path would have been M of Fire -> Searing Fires -> Fiery Wrath. And remove the god damn secrets of destruction, because I doubt anyone will take it with Inferno.
Another example: For warlocks in the Attack tree: P of Speed and Retribution both now require Battle Frenzy. Man, I miss the days when I could've had Tactics, Power of speed and Retribution. I mean, it was perfect. Dungeon's low numbers means that Battle Frenzy bring little bonus, whereas the other two were just great.
I could continue but I think you get the picture. I think the skill wheel still needs work. What do you think? Should we make a mod. Provide feedback about what you believe should change, and I'll make a little mod, just for fun.
continuing from the thread I created:
First of all in my post I meant Cold Steel and not Cold Death which is just fine.
What bothers me is that there isn't a balance between the req for different races.
I mean, for example now P. of Speed requires Battle Frenzy, for everyone. Of course a necro or Demon Lord would love this pick as it boosts their high growth low tier stacks by a good amont, whereas Dungeon is not that happy. Dungeon Loves Tactics(everyone knows it was a great must in creeping with furies before 3.0).
This brings an imbalance to the game imo. Nonetheless, the game can be played as it is, but, I believe that opening several favorite paths for a hero to follow could prove to be more interesting overall.
For example, with the Knight in the Logistics skill:
If I were dev, I would have build 3 separate paths:
Pathfinding -> Warpath -> Snatch (focusing thus on high movement on the adventure map)
Pathfinding -> Death March -> Familiar Ground (focus on high speed in combat)
Scouting -> Silent Stalker -> Swift Mind (focusing on scouting)(even though Swift Mind belongs better in Englightment)
In my opinion this type of purpose oriented build brings better options to the game than placing the skills with random requirements and hoping people would like them.
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