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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: What are the worst skills in game and how u would change them?
Thread: What are the worst skills in game and how u would change them? This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT»
Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted February 16, 2009 09:07 AM

@Lex:
Dark Ritual is very helpful especially in a map with limited number of wells, or one with many players. At some crossroads where you know you'd be facing enemies more than one within short period, wasting 75% movement to regain full mana is more effective than anything else. Don't forget it's also a prerequisite for Warlock's Luck, which is also important for warlocks.

As to Spoils of War, yeah, I agree you don't get much from it. But like Ash pointed out, it would depend on the map. In Duel of the Titans, the neutrals are mostly high tier. Also, when you take Resourcefulness, it's bound to happen that the next two perks offered will either be Spoils or Tear, your choice

Goblin Support is a similar issue. The path to Ultimate Rage maybe is worst of all with Brimstone as well on the way. I'd normally pick Triple Ballista + Tent playing any race. But if you face Wizard or friends with habitual Cold Death, you'd want to surprise them sometimes with different tactic. Goblin Support + Defend Us All combo can lead to a scary Horde's Anger.
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted February 16, 2009 09:12 AM

Quote:
Goblin Support is a similar issue. The path to Ultimate Rage maybe is worst of all with Brimstone as well on the way.

Well, if you have Lcuk, you don't actually need that third shot. I hits a blank spot in like 90% of the occasions (though I find it usefull to dispose of Gates and Turrets)


Quote:
I'd normally pick Triple Ballista + Tent playing any race.

D'uh, who doesn't?

Quote:
Goblin Support + Defend Us All combo can lead to a scary Horde's Anger
Defend us all - yes. Goblin Support is sucky anyway ( 1 Gobbo per day, will not make much difference, unless gotten early), tho I'll probably take it with Kilghan, undoubtably the best Horde's Anger abuser! ^^
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted February 16, 2009 09:28 AM
Edited by Azagal at 09:32, 16 Feb 2009.

Quote:
Quote:
Nothing beats Tear of Asha Vision imo, I mean wtf??

And What about Spoils of War, Resistance, Dark Ritual, Goblin Support??




All of these skills are Azagal's mom compared to soulfire.

Ahahaaahahahaaaa xD can't breath.... ahahaaaha. Wtf xD?


edit: I'm understanding this right? You mean to say that my mom is actually THE HOTNESS right?
Hmmm and Lexxan is argueing that... so he's actually saying she's ugly? You wana die punk?!?

EDIT:
Quote:
I could use that 75 gold from spoils of war to buy back the imp that dies when I soulfire and blow up my own units.

Aaahahahaa this is the most fun thread I've seen in forever xD thanks Blizzy aahahahahaa omg xD.

EDIT: And Soulfire IS the most useless perk in the history of Heroes of Might and Magic. Forget it Lex you won't win that argument. It simply is.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted February 16, 2009 09:32 AM

Nope. He's saying the perks I mentionned are AWESOME in comparrisson Soulfire - But I disagree, Spoils of War sucks, even more than Soulfire.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted February 16, 2009 09:37 AM

Will you please stop repeating that awesome joke again and again and again about me oO?

Apart from that I think he's talking more about THE HOTNESS since my mom is brasilian she was pretty damn attractive when she was young. But ehm yeah this isn't really about how hot my mom was when she was young... so ehm

SOULFIRE IS USELES! And seriously it's way more useless than spoils of war. The benefits have been already correctly described by Ash.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted February 16, 2009 09:51 AM

Quote:
Will you please stop repeating that awesome joke again and again and again about me oO?

Apart from that I think he's talking more about THE HOTNESS since my mom is brasilian she was pretty damn attractive when she was young. But ehm yeah this isn't really about how hot my mom was when she was young... so ehm

Quote:
SOULFIRE IS USELES!

hmpf I have to admit that yes I'll look it up.
Quote:
And seriously it's way more useless than spoils of war.


I doubt it. FOr Killing a PHOENIX (the most expensive creature ever), you get either 150 Gold, 2 Wood/ore or 1 Crystal/Gem/Suphur/mercury., and that's even the MAXIMUM. (you mostly will get less) It's so meh, that I cannot place it on the scale from Meh to Uber-meh.

I'll look into Souldfire tho.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted February 16, 2009 10:23 AM

Quote:
Quote:
I'd normally pick Triple Ballista + Tent playing any race.

D'uh, who doesn't?


Who am I talking to?  Seem I often forget where I am

Anyway, some races could actually abandon one of those three common Machine perks for something else. Ever heard a Wizard with DOUBLE triple flaming arrows?
____________
But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted February 16, 2009 03:54 PM

This beat everything

Okay, I tried some battles on Elvin's Duel Map, with Spoils of War, and this is what I got from resources:

FOr Defeating Dungeon: 4 Sulphur and 156 gold
FOr Defeating Sylvan: 5 Ore and 156 Gold
For Defeating Haven: 3 Crystal and 130 Gold
For defeating Academy: 4 gems and 170 Gold
For defeating Fortress: 4 Wood and 148 gold
For defeating Stronghold: 2 Mercury and 5 Wood
For Defeating Necropolis: 2 Mercury, 1 Wood and 96 gold.

Some treasure.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted February 16, 2009 03:58 PM
Edited by Asheera at 15:58, 16 Feb 2009.

Lex, can you end this already? Spoils of War sucks, but Soulfire sucks even more (to the point of being negative). Read my last post on the previous page, I'm not going to quote it.
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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted February 16, 2009 04:09 PM

About SoulFire

I've been looking up the "damage it does"

No Destructive: 22 Damage, 33 if Stack is upgraded
Basic: 28 Damage, 42 if Stack is upgraded
Advanced: 34 Damage, 51 if Stack is upgraded
Expert: 40 Damage, 60 if Stack is upgraded

Meh, it's useless (Common Knowledge)

It pops up often you say? Then I can understand it's a big Nuissance (I never pick Sorcery for Demon Lords tho, Soulfire or no Soulfire), and still, you can WAIT with picking Consume Corpse before you've maxed Sorcery up. Either Way, the big point about Soul Fire is that it replenishes your mana, and does, Little Damage. The damage however is too little to be of any effect (Maximum 60 Wtf??? That's killing one Grim Raider - and NO, that wasn't meant positively).

Well, I'm going to say that Soul Fire and Spoils are even on the Sucks Scale of Meh, but that's my highest offer
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted February 16, 2009 04:20 PM

Quote:
Spoils of War sucks

It's all the matter of scale. If game lasts longer than 2 months and involvs battles with huge neutral stacks, battle Loots can actually become the main source of income.

For sure it is useless in duels of all kind, but in a long run proves it's best.

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Thanatos_
Thanatos_


Bad-mannered
Hired Hero
HC Terror, badass Member
posted February 17, 2009 08:20 PM

I think it's stupid that Necromancers can learn Leadship for what is it good if a Necromancer have it .
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Dargor
Dargor


Adventuring Hero
posted February 18, 2009 01:48 PM

Sorry, but for me the worst skill is scouting (since Homm2)
But i think that Battle Lore /Schoolar is useless too
Hey soulfire can Kill a pesant or 2

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razor5
razor5


Famous Hero
Freezing...
posted February 18, 2009 02:57 PM

Quote:
(Maximum 60 Wtf??? That's killing one Grim Raider - and NO, that wasn't meant positively)


Agreed,the Soulfire is one of the weakest skills,but not the weakest.I somewhat agree with Dargor as the scouting is the weakest.C'mon that is simply useless

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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted February 18, 2009 03:03 PM

Hmm? why? It shows you the exact number of neutrals in a stack, and expands your viewing radius. Useless? Not. Weak? Most probably yes.

But with Scholar I agree, one of the useless perks as well. Arcane Intuition is pretty good though, not only is good in some situations to learn spells from your own creatures, but also allows you to view the enemy hero's properties (inventory, perks, etc) during a fight.
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razor5
razor5


Famous Hero
Freezing...
posted February 18, 2009 03:13 PM
Edited by razor5 at 15:13, 18 Feb 2009.

I don't need to have the exactly number of creatures,the few,horde,throng etc. are from beggining,and if you take a look on a H5 site,you'll find the number (not exactly) of creatures - few - 1-3 creaures

The Arcane Intuition is a very good one,agee with you,it simply helps you to learn (for example: Meteor Shower from the Pit Lord at the start of the game until you aquire Advanced Destructive Magic for being allowed to use it)

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted February 18, 2009 10:21 PM

Arcane Intuition's use is pretty occasional. It usually is crappy against Inferno or Fortress, but very powerfull against Sylvan and Academy. It depends on your opponent and magic skill mostly

Scouting is handy, as lots of Cavaliers can mean both "21" and "49". The Courage Level is very Handy to know when you have Diplomacy. Extra Vision is not nessecairy, but doesn't go astry either. Besides, Scouting Mostly leads to Swift Mind, and we all know what that does

Scholar: Yeah, Weak. It does have it's uses on Large, Void maps, where it takes ages to move from Mage Guild to Mage Guild. It also leads to Mentoring and Lord of the Undead, which aren't bad perks either.

Magic Insight hasn't been mentionned yet to my surprise; it's biggest use is to learn spells like Phantom Forces, Righteous Might or Confusion. It's also a Prequisite to Warlock's Luck in most cases, and Quite Frankly, with Magic Insight, it simply becomes easier to take Exotic Magic Schools (if you have Righteous Might and Haste (for a Demon Lord), you might want to take Light Magic).

Master of Earthblood is also VERY weak. Fire Trap boost is okay, but it mostly leads to nothing (except Fog Veil, which imo can't match Elemental Balance or Fire Warriors), and hell, why boost Earthquake if there was nothing to boost anyway?

Estates... I already said it before: 250 gold per day, 1750 a week. Possibly good early, but WORTHLESS late-game (that Extra Treant or 17 Assassins will usually NOT make any difference). It doesn't lead to anything either, unlike the "weaker" Recruitement perk.

Apart from these, I think that every Basic Perk is powerfull (enough) to be taken, or leads to usefull stuff at least.






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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted February 18, 2009 10:30 PM

Quote:
Master of Earthblood is also VERY weak. Fire Trap boost is okay, but it mostly leads to nothing (except Fog Veil, which imo can't match Elemental Balance or Fire Warriors), and hell, why boost Earthquake if there was nothing to boost anyway?
Ever heard of Tremors? Not that it's useful though, nobody picks that perk anyway.

However, it also boosts Arcane Crystal and Blade Barrier. And I disagree completely regarding Fog Veil. In 3.1, it decreases the enemy shooter's initiative by 10% and damage by 25% Don't you see it as a lot better than Evasion? It's clear, the damage reduction is already better, yet it also has an initiative reduction as well. But Nival have a weird taste of balance

And don't tell me you find Evasion weak or worthless. Just because you think that Elemental Balance (which is situational, because not every enemy hero has summoning magic) and Fire Warriors are better, doesn't mean Fog Veil is weak.
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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted February 18, 2009 10:40 PM
Edited by Lexxan at 22:40, 18 Feb 2009.

Quote:
However, it also boosts Arcane Crystal and Blade Barrier.
It does? Well, that Changes stuff.

Quote:
And I disagree completely regarding Fog Veil. In 3.1, it decreases the enemy shooter's initiative by 10% and damage by 25%

Oh, I thought it was the other way round - -20% to In and -10% to dam... Well, not that I use it Summoning often, and when I do, I usually take MoC and MoL.



Quote:
And don't tell me you find Evasion weak or worthless.

Never said so, and I never will. I consider Evasion stronger than Protection (Unless I have Deflect Missile or I'm playing against Dungeon)

Quote:
Just because you think that Elemental Balance (which is situational, because not every enemy hero has summoning magic) and Fire Warriors are better, doesn't mean Fog Veil is weak
I never said I thought it was weak. Imo, it doesn't match EB or FW. But, yes, these two are situational, but Fog Veil is too actually: I wouldn't use it against Inferno or Dungeon - but that's just common sense
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Nebdar
Nebdar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
posted February 19, 2009 12:23 AM
Edited by Nebdar at 00:34, 19 Feb 2009.

This thread is not only about complaining about the worst skills but also an sloutions how to change them...

I was thinking about Scholar and :
*Allows you to change one spell in mage guild once per week

If you have Scholar + Advanced Enlightment = 1st level spell only
If you have Scholar + Expert Enlightment   = 1st & 2nd level spell only
If you have Scholar + Expert Enlightment + B. Magic School Skill(or Magic Insight) = 1st & 2nd level spell only and 3rd level spell of that Magic School(or if you have Magic Insight any kind of spell)


And so on to 5thlevel spells.

or

* you can Learn Witch in Witch Hut new skillearasing the old one)
Prerequesites: Scholar + Expert Enlightment + Expert Skill You want to learn her.

it could be used only once, and the Heroes who have visted this Witch earlier and learnt something can not benefit from the new skill.



Spoils of War - i always wanted to take clame of some portion of enemy resources and gold reserves it has when i won the siege and claim one of it's Town.

The resources gained by this skill should be slightly improved


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