Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: To kill or not to kill...
Thread: To kill or not to kill... This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 14, 2007 04:35 PM

Quote:
there is a simple reason i disagree with you ...i believe that no matter what, all people are equal ...punishing someone for a crime is one thing ...putting aside all human rights to do so, is the beginning of a VERY dangerous path...


That reminds me of an idea I had: for certain serious crimes, we could take people's humanity away. They would have no protection under law. It would be legal to kill them, put them in a zoo, or other things that would be generally considered inhumane.
____________
Eccentric Opinion

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted January 14, 2007 04:37 PM

Now that is one of the stupidest things I have ever had to read, no offense, but that's just stupid.

Putting them in zoos, killing them, and any other inhuman things being done to them.

That is just not even good, and nor is it human to do stuff like that.

I am just lost for words with that comment, that idea is bad.


No offense meant here, and if I misunderstood your post then forgive me.
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 14, 2007 04:42 PM

But why is it inhumane, if they are not human any more? Treat them like you would any animal that you know has a record for vicious violence. Say you have a dog that has mauled several people. Where I live, animal control would come and kill it. Now imagine animal control didn't come, but everyone still knew about the viciousness. Eventually, someone would kill it. Same with a criminal who has been declared inhuman.
____________
Eccentric Opinion

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted January 14, 2007 04:44 PM

Criminal's are still human, but their actions may seem inhuman.

No human should be trated like an animal and put behind a cage or whatever.

That is wrong.
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 14, 2007 04:46 PM

The % of dogs killing a human being is so low it's rediculas.
Us humans train dogs to be killers.
Dogs are not born that way nor do they have a rivalry with cats.
Your watch too much tv Mvass.

____________
Dreaming of a Better World

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Lith-Maethor
Lith-Maethor


Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
posted January 14, 2007 04:46 PM

mvassilev

since satire doesn't work that well in written speech... please tell me you are joking... tell me you cannot possibly mean all the **** that you post...
____________
You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 14, 2007 04:50 PM

The same person who says mentally ill are not human.
I kind of doubt it Lith lol.
____________
Dreaming of a Better World

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted January 14, 2007 04:58 PM

Quote:

TitaniumAlloy:
exactly, but you will find i already quoted ghandi



Ah.

so you did.



ok I'll shut up now

I actually don't have much to say on the Death Penalty itself, as I think that's the least of the worlds problems atm.


But I don't see any reason for it anyway. Why can't you just keep them locked up for life, because otherwise theres no going back. But then you could say that theyre a drain on funds.
But it's better to have an innocent person put in jail for a while and freed when proven innocent (we all know the system doesn't always work) than killed and proven innocent after. However unlikely that situation might be.





I saw a movie about the Death Penalty. I tried googling it but I couldn't remember the name. So I tried googling the lead actor. But I couldn't remember his name either

But it's about this guy who is a political activist who has argued all his life against the death penalty, and then finds himself framed for a brutal murder which has put him on death row. His lawyer has the time until his execution to prove his innocence, and they investigate it until they solve it on the day of his scheduled execution. She discovers that the murder was staged by the murder victim (who gave her life) and the accused to prove that the system, and thereby the Death Penalty, does not work. She finds a tape of evidence, and gets it there only minutes after his execution, just as he wanted.

Good movie.
____________
John says to live above hell.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted January 14, 2007 05:56 PM

Quote:
But it's about this guy who is a political activist who has argued all his life against the death penalty, and then finds himself framed for a brutal murder which has put him on death row. His lawyer has the time until his execution to prove his innocence, and they investigate it until they solve it on the day of his scheduled execution. She discovers that the murder was staged by the murder victim (who gave her life) and the accused to prove that the system, and thereby the Death Penalty, does not work. She finds a tape of evidence, and gets it there only minutes after his execution, just as he wanted.

I believe you are thinking of Kevin Spacey in The Life of David Gale.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted January 14, 2007 07:13 PM

On bended knee beseeching with my God Mv is using some sort of illegal drug at any giving time that he is forcing us to swim about in this load of ****. You feel “persons” with mental illness are not considered humans. You have puked out that you feel we should treat those that have committed crimes as zoo animals. I feel like we need to put you in a round room, demand you piss in the corner, and then delouse your soul. Have you no clue what this babble sounds like? Are you aware that your fingers are typing at a much faster rate than your mind is willing to keep up with?
Just tell me that you are not serious and that this sarcasm stems from the inability to cope with life. I’m officially bashing your idea and due to the rules of HC I will not comment on your character as a “person”, as it does not deserve my time.  

____________
Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 15, 2007 03:11 AM

Quote:
That is wrong.


Why? These criminals could not act human, so why should we treat them as humans?

Quote:
Dogs are not born that way nor do they have a rivalry with cats.
Your watch too much tv Mvass.


I was merely using an example. And I never watch TV, I hate the thing.

Quote:
since satire doesn't work that well in written speech... please tell me you are joking... tell me you cannot possibly mean all the **** that you post...


You may think that I am insane, and I would understand. But no, I'm not joking.

Quote:
The same person who says mentally ill are not human.


No, no. I said that the mentally ill are not "persons", but they are still humans.


____________
Eccentric Opinion

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted January 15, 2007 03:14 AM

Quote:

Why? These criminals could not act human, so why should we treat them as humans?


They did act human, because what they were doing is what they thought was the right thing to do, that doesnt mean that they are animals.

They can still think, reason and all that because they are humans.

No human should be treated like an animal and put in a zoo.


Quote:
The same person who says mentally ill are not human.


No, no. I said that the mentally ill are not "persons", but they are still humans.




All person's are Humans, therefore making the mentally ill humans, because they are person's.


____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 15, 2007 03:15 AM

Then you hear too many rumours.

You might as well say they are not human because you sure are insinuating it.
____________
Dreaming of a Better World

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 15, 2007 03:30 AM

Quote:
All person's are Humans, therefore making the mentally ill humans, because they are person's.



There is a difference between a person and a "person". Person = Human. "Person" = one who can reason logically and, perhaps, attempt to conquer instincts. Of course, persons may become "persons", and vice versa.

Quote:
I feel like we need to put you in a round room, demand you piss in the corner, and then delouse your soul


Forgive my ignorance, but what does "delouse" mean? And I don't believe in the existence of a soul. And just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean you have to express hostility towards me.
____________
Eccentric Opinion

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted January 15, 2007 04:04 AM

How can a person become a person?

All humans can think, reason and all that, even the mentally ill, they just cannot do it aswell becauuse they are obviously mentally ill.
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 15, 2007 09:59 AM
Edited by Ecoris at 10:00, 15 Jan 2007.

This is a thread about the moral aspects of the death penalty, and since you, mvasilev, are "not concerned about right and wrong [...]" and "don't care about morality." you will stop spamming this thread and start a new one if you wish to discuss alternative ways of organizing society.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted January 15, 2007 07:05 PM

Louse means parasite, it is what they do to prison inmates before they allow them in the “zoo”.

MV
Quote:
And I don't believe in the existence of a soul. And just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean you have to express hostility towards me.


This dear is not hostility nor have I even begun to get hostile on you! You have expressed ideas that are not even logical.

MV {quote}"Person" = one who can reason logically and, perhaps, attempt to conquer instincts.


So by this statement we can all assume that you are not a “person”. Which is why I was wondering when your mother ship would be here to gather you up? This is not a personal attack, this is an attempt to reason with crazy and as a famous math professor once said, “You can’t reason with crazy.” So therefore I guess I can now close my portion of this thread in relation to you..  

____________
Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 16, 2007 04:58 PM

There was program yesterday about the death penalty on the occasion of the recent hangings in Iraq (one of them was Saddam Hussein's half brother). It was not about the use of death penalty in Iraq but in the world in general.
China was mentioned as the country that executed most people each year. The official number is about 1000, but unofficially it's estimated to be 8000. To make matters worse, many of them are sentenced without due processes, no defence, and no right to appeal. Saudi Arabia is also known for its practice of the death penalty, so is the US. But I have confidence in the US judicial system (which I can't say about the other two countries). In China and Saudi Arabia it's not the use of the death penalty as much as the lack of fair trials that I condemn. The way the execution is carried out is secondary even though it can be horrible (the public ones and the recent examples from Iraq spring to mind). If I'm not mistaken the US only uses lethal injections nowadays.
During the program they interviewed a representative from Amnesty International (AI is against the death penalty in all cases). He had an interesting point: Many countries that use the capital punishment 'hide', so to speak, behind the US, using an argument like "if a democracy like the US can sentence people to death, why can't we?" He felt that if the US abolished the capital punishment it would put pressure on such countries (where due process is not a constitutional right), i.e. he thought that it was a hindrance towards the abolishment in other countries. It's hypothetical, he may be right, but after all I do not think that such a concern should play any role to whether or not a country chooses to use it.
Below is a map of that shows how the death penalty is used (or not used) worldwide.



The US is in its good right to use the capital punishment, but I have just as much right to criticise that use. My knowledge of its use is limited though; I've heard that 3 out of 4 support the use of the capital punishment, which is a large majority. Besides the stories of those on the death row that occasionally (but rarely) find their way to the newspapers over here, I've read "In Cold Blood" by Truman Capote (I can recommend it). It's very sober-minded so the reader is left alone to make up his own mind of the punishment. I guess the views readers could have of the persons could differ quite a lot because the author's view is not present anywhere. But the story is set in the sixties, at that time the death penalty had not formally been abolished for all crimes. However, leaving out the trials against those that had betrayed their country during the German occupation in Second World War, nobody has been executed for over a century in Denmark.
No EU country uses the capital punishment. Actually to become a member you must abolish it.

So why would you want to support the use of death penalty? As I see it lifetime imprisonment is always a better alternative.
They also interviewed a member of the youth organisation of the conservative party (we have parliamentarism in Denmark if you didn't know. There are currently seven parties represented in the parliament). He said that it was "irrational" not to use the capital punishment when the state had many other means of power available that could lead to other people’s death (e.g. aid to prevent famine in third world countries, military power).
While it is not unusual in Denmark to stumble upon people that support the idea of the capital punishment, it is unusual to find them among well-educated people and members of moderate parties. To add to my astonishment, this man made no sense at all. The police and the military are only armed because it is necessary (unfortunately), how should that justify the use of death penalty?? He also mentioned that penalties could be looked upon as some kind of (legalized) "revenge". To me that sounds like a very medieval view. If someone commits a crime it is a matter between him and the state, not between him and the victim (or the victim's relatives in case of murder). If you have confidence in the judicial system and the criminal is brought before the court, will revenge make you feel any better? Eye for an eye?
An argument that may also be put forth by those who support the capital punishment is that it will deter people from committing capital crimes. I don't if that is true, but somehow it assumes that murderers act in cold blood and think rationally when they commit their crime. From what I know that is usually not the case. And allow me to quote the EU memorandum on the death penalty:
Quote:
At the same time, there is insufficient justification on either criminal or criminological grounds for maintaining such a punishment. First of all, it is scientifically undemonstrated that the death penalty and its application deter criminality any more effectively than other forms of punishment. Indeed, crime rate and the death penalty are independent realities, capital punishment and its execution failing to have a deterrent effect and thus to produce less violent societies.

I have mentioned earlier I am against the death penalty for moral reasons. I don't believe that we as humans should have the right to take each others lives no matter what. To add to that the death penalty is irreversible. Lifetime imprisonment is much better in my opinion, and even though you can't give back the years an innocent person may have spent in prison, you have done what you could and acknowledged the mistake.

It would require very strong practical arguments for me to review my opinion on death penalty and outweigh my moral beliefs, and currently they are not present in any significant degree.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted January 16, 2007 06:22 PM

[quote}If I'm not mistaken the US only uses lethal injections nowadays.[/quot]

This would be incorrect. We use lethal injection, the gas chamber, and by way of hanging. We still might even use the firing squad as well. Good post…  

____________
Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted January 16, 2007 08:39 PM
Edited by Corribus at 20:52, 17 Jan 2007.

Violent flower is correct.  Lethal injection is not the only method of execution in the US.  Electrocution and gas chamber are also commonly used methods (though the former is in decline, with only 7 states still allowing it).  Idaho and Oklahoma still allow firing squad (and until 2004 so did Utah, although the law was not retroactive), but lethal injection is preferred method.  New Hampshire and Washington allow hanging, and so did, until recently, Delaware.  In most states I think inmates get to choose how they want to check out.  But it all depends on the respective states' laws regarding capital punishment.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0667 seconds