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| Thread: To kill or not to kill... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 16, 2007 10:07 PM |
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Edited by Ecoris at 22:09, 16 Jan 2007.
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I had forgotten about the gas chamber, but I was almost certain that the "old" methods like hanging, firing squads and electrocution were no longer used, especially hanging.
I took a look at the site of Death Penalty Information Center. Apparently only Washington and New Hampshire allow hanging, and no executions have been performed in NH since the penalty was re-introduced in 1976.
Firing squads are only used in two states (Idaho and Oklahoma).
Wikipedia can also clarify a bit:
Quote:
The use of lethal injection has become standard. From June 2000 to July 20, 2006, only 6 out of 387 executions have been by a different method. The last execution by any other method was the use of the electric chair on July 20, 2006 when Brandon Hedrick was executed in Virginia. The last use of the gas chamber occurred on March 3, 1999 when Walter LaGrand was executed in Arizona, the last use of hanging was on 25 January 1996 when Delaware hanged Billy Bailey and the firing squad was also last used in 1996 when John Albert Taylor was shot in Utah on January 26.
All states have lethal injection as an alternative except Nebraska that requires electrocution.
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 16, 2007 10:32 PM |
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You can also take a look at this.
It appears that I see man as a machine... rather arrogant I might say.
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frostwolf
Famous Hero
livin' in a bottle of vodka
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posted January 16, 2007 10:47 PM |
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You know, so many people shout out loud that death penalty is a barbaric thing, a hideous, inhuman thing to do to a fellow human.
A very simple (and painful) way to think about it is this: first, a question: how many years in jail is a rapist sentenced to? In your country at least? The reason I'm asking this is because death penalty is not permitted in my country.
Now imagine this. All of you here who have daughters, girlfriends, wifes, loving mothers, or otherwise any female relations that you truly love and care for. Can you picture your girfriend coming home from work one night, or your daughter returning from school, and beeing raped. You can? No, maybe you think you can. Try to imagine the act itself. try to imagine the stranger, his body, his twisted mind. Can you possibly even think about letting a man who does this get away with prison?
Would you let a man who forces himself upon your daughter/girlfriend live. And by that, know that when he gets out of jail, he might do it again? To some other innocent.
I'm a guy. I can think of myself put trough the most terrible of medieval tortures. I might survive, I might not. Pain, both physical and psychological, can be dealt with if you survive it.
But I tell you this. I could not live if I knew that something like this happened to my girlfriend. In truth, the only way I can talk about this now is because, subconsciously, I do not fully acknowlege the act in itself. If I was faced with this, I swear I would devote my life to finding and killing the man who did it. And honestly, as a man put in this situation, could you do less?
Death penalty should be allowed all over the world. Rapists do not deserve to live. Of course, there are other things, such as cold blooded murderers and so on. My opinion is that death penalty is the only way to go because of two things:
1. People who commit such acts should not be allowed to live: they may (escape and) do it again, and keeping them in prison requires resources of the state that could be pf better use in other places.
2. Prison does not scare people enough. Death does. Thus, death penalty might discourage others from commiting crimes.
Now you might argue it is better to keep them in prison because lack of freedom is worse than death. Or, on the other hand, because it is more humane. However, death sentence (in the case mentioned above, at least) is the only sure way to rid society of the danger.
You could of course argue that innocent people might get killed, because the omniprezent flaws in the lawsystem. I will reply saying that the lawsystem will always have flaws in it. The argument of weather it is better to deprive an innocent of his freedom or kill him
(considering of course that he is wrongly convicted but it cannot be proven) is for another time.
Support death penalty. Or don't support it, but don't dare call those who do barbarians. They are no less so than you.
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What can you expect from a world where everybody lives because they're too afraid to commit suicide?
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted January 17, 2007 11:55 AM |
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The whole thing all democratic countries (including mine although it's not the finest example) are wrong at is trying to make universal laws... Death sentence should not be abolished. But it should be used only for the most horrible and unrepentant of killers. If a man kills 25 babies and laughs throughout the trial, in a country with no death sentence he'll get about the same punishment as if he made a series of bank-robberies and perhaps only wounded one or two guards. Life sentence. That's why death penalty should exist, if nothing, then to frighten potential killers a little. There's no death sentence in my country, not even life sentence, as maximal is 43 (or 42, I don't remember) years in prison (plus the judges are thoroughly corrupt anyway so it's pretty impossible to sentence anyone with enough cash). 43 years? You can rape a priest, shoot a child, blow up a building and burn the whole town down and get crappy 43 years.
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 17, 2007 12:33 PM |
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Edited by Ecoris at 12:33, 17 Jan 2007.
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Let me try to respond, frostwolf:
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how many years in jail is a rapist sentenced to? In your country at least? The reason I'm asking this is because death penalty is not permitted in my country.
Usually 1.5 to 2.5 years, though they may be as high as 8 years or even 12 years under special circumstances (there has been much debate to increase the penalty). If it is feared that the rapist will commit the crime again he can be put into 'safe keeping' indefinitely (usually mentally ill persons).
In Denmark the culprit was 15-17 years old in 58.6% of the cases.
Now tell me how many of them do it again?
Quote:
Can you picture your girfriend coming home from work one night, or your daughter returning from school, and beeing raped. You can? No, maybe you think you can. Try to imagine the act itself. try to imagine the stranger, his body, his twisted mind. Can you possibly even think about letting a man who does this get away with prison?
No I can't imagine that, neither can I imagine how it would be to spend years behind bars.
I understand the anger one must feel, it is very natural, but what good will it bring?
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I can think of myself put trough the most terrible of medieval tortures.
I doubt that anyone who hasn't experienced it can.
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If I was faced with this, I swear I would devote my life to finding and killing the man who did it. And honestly, as a man put in this situation, could you do less?
What will you gain fom revenge? It will not undo the what has happened, and do you think that one crime deserves the other? And which crime would be the worst?
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My opinion is that death penalty is the only way to go because of two things:
1. People who commit such acts should not be allowed to live: they may (escape and) do it again, and keeping them in prison requires resources of the state that could be pf better use in other places.
Do you thereby imply that their lives can be estimated in money?
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You could of course argue that innocent people might get killed, because the omniprezent flaws in the lawsystem. I will reply saying that the lawsystem will always have flaws in it.
Oh, but that is no valid argument. That the judiacial system makes mistakes has to be considered. The basis for this discussion should not be the ideal but reality.
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Support death penalty. Or don't support it, but don't dare call those who do barbarians. They are no less so than you.
You are not to tell nor threaten me about what I think and say, frostwolf. And I haven't called those who support death penalty barbarians; I have called death penalty itself barbaric.
I respect your right to support death penalty, but look at Denmark. Apparently we let criminals 'get away' with prison, and a very short time in prison I might add. Is Denmark a country with a high crime rate? No. It's quite peaceful and secure up here. We need not go about and kill each other.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted January 18, 2007 07:48 PM |
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Edited by Consis at 19:52, 18 Jan 2007.
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Fear
I want you to understand that I live in fear of such criminals. Do you understand? I live in fear. The feelings that well up inside me are nothing short of paralyzing confusion, intense deep sadness for loss, and those feelings turn at some point to undeniable rage and hatred.
That is a very frightening aspect to consider within the confines of this discussion. I don't want to feel those things. Do I have a choice in the matter? Feelings are inescapable. Above all . . . the entire experience defines very clearly what it means to lose control of yourself. Losing control of one's self is a terrible thing to do. It is almost similar to losing your humanity in my opinion because once it happens (and you witness this) you will see a "person" decay very rapidly to nothing more than an incapable and unintelligible beast. From human to simple animal . . . the change and degredation is unmistakable.
Do any of us truly wish to lose the very things that make us human? I will vote for the death penalty . . . (in the very least!) . . . to maintain my hold over how I define myself in the infinitely beautiful spectrum of that which is humanity. I believe in God, reason & logic, and compassion.
And in the end . . . let not the fear take me from my belonging. I pray for strength of character and good judgment. I will also pray for the soul of the person whom (for whatever reason) tried to play God by murdering an innocent. When it is all said and done I will seek to forgive the individual who trespassed against me because that is what I believe God would want me to do.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 19, 2007 03:24 PM |
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Edited by Ecoris at 15:29, 19 Jan 2007.
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He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster
You live in Beaverton, Consis. That sounds quite peaceful, but I don't know if it is.
(Beaverton crime stats).
I live in one of the suburbs north of Copenhagen, it's quite peaceful here, the weather is good and the forest lies only a few hundred metres from here. So what do I know of such fear? Perhaps I will know more one day.
You speak of criminals as if they are a clear subset of all citizens. You fear the criminals, but would it not be more correct to say that you fear what they might do to you or to those you care for? After all who are the criminals?
Murderers: Are they cold-blooded killers, psychological ill people? Maybe some of them are, but many of them are people just like you and I that have "lost control" as you say. Or they may feel that it was what they had to do; but had they not been under a great pressure they would have seen that what they we're about to do was very wrong.
Have you heard about Tony Martin? Two burglars entered his house one night. He woke, took his rifle (for hunting) and went down, he was frightened and shot once killing one of them and injuring the other. At first he was found guilty of murder and sentenced to life in prison. In the appeal case it was changed to manslaughter.
A similar case happened this Tuesday in Copenhagen. A watchmaker that dealt with antique watches had been robbed several times (it happened as often as three times during two months). He suffered significant economic losses because his insurance in some cases only covered 15%. The police only solve less than 10% of such crimes in Denmark. He was frustrated and decided to take the law into his own hands since he felt the police were not doing their job. He gets himself a semi-automatic gun. This Tuesday three burglars enter his shop apparently armed (their guns turned out to be fake). He doesn't hesitate and shoots first injuring all three of them as he empties the magazine. The criminals escaped but did not get far as they needed medical treatment.
Ironically some would say the watchmaker may receive a harder punishment being accused of attempt to murder than those that tried to rob him.
So what are we to do with him? He might have killed one or more of them had his aim been better. Luckily that didn't happen, but then he would have been a murderer.
Well, Consis, death penalty is not mandatory in the US when one is found guilty of murder if I am not mistaken. There may be a few very brutal murderers and/or rapists among them, but tell me why you think we as society should execute them. Will it make you less afraid than if they were put behind bars? Or do you feel that the death penalty would be right and just?
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Nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted January 21, 2007 01:22 PM |
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Hmmm...
- Capital punishment costs more to the state than lifelong imprisonement (not implying I'm in favor of the latter)
- When a criminal is executed, he or she doesn't have the chance or opportunity to change, and can not spend time trying to repair the damage he or she has done (or devote time being benefical in some other way, to society)
- Capital punishment does not reduce the amount of heavy offenses or offenders
- Executing people, is against the universal declaration of human rights
Now, can someone compile me a list with the advantages of capital punishment? Please stick to facts... 
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted January 21, 2007 04:13 PM |
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I agree with you completely Nid. 
It goes against every decent guideline in history, be it law, religion or basic morality.
And not only does it not provide an opportunity for the person to redeem themselves or change, but it doesn't allow for mistakes or flaws in the system, as it's obviously irreversible.
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John says to live above hell.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted January 21, 2007 04:54 PM |
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I disagree some people deserve it.
ANimal murderes, people who kill thier own kids.
Screw them & give them the chair.
I have no sympothy for alot of criminals who would heartlesly hurt others.
Sorry Nidh but someone for the first time in your carrear here had to disagree with you 
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Dreaming of a Better World
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