|
| Thread: Dungeon heroes overview! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
posted January 21, 2007 03:33 PM |
|
|
Maybe but in longer games it's better to attack for the defence reduction. And you cannot afford the time to use such tactics because you may get hit first.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
sdfx
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 21, 2007 04:01 PM |
|
|
Well, for me the path to take is always something between those 2 approaches:
-go might just to make furies and raiders reach units on the other side of battlefield(teleport assault counts too) and then go all magic.
-go all might + destructive
____________
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted January 21, 2007 05:54 PM |
|
|
Quote:
This is a bad analysis. He can be EXTREMELY dangerous with the lizard bite. In fact, I sometimes won't even attack with my lizards, but move them RIGHT up to a slower enemy. Then, having several stacks of furies, attack the slower enemy. The lizards get free bites over and over while the furies receive no retaliation. If you use him in this manner, he is one of the BEST heroes. Give it a try sometime...
that's perhaps for strategy masters.. that can keep the furies alive (small stacks - absolutely everything kills them, even peasants lol) and be able to keep the lizard stack big and healthy. It won't be much of use agains necro, haven (obvious), perhaps sylvan (bide + powerful ranged attackers) and inferno (too much fast, damaging stacks). It may be interesting to try vs. academy, though.
|
|
PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
|
|
posted January 21, 2007 05:57 PM |
|
|
Doomforge, maybe he means against neutrals? It might be a fast creep strategy. And then of course you bring the rest of the army to fight enemy heroes.
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
|
|
Dungeonian
Adventuring Hero
Supreme matriarch
|
|
posted January 21, 2007 06:11 PM |
|
|
There is a bug ( or feature , who knows ) with Sorgal in 2.0 His raiders do 100%+1%*lvl damage with lizard byte ability instead of 50%+1%*lvl as it being written . I understood this by some experiments . So he isn't worthless hero , at least in creeping . The weakest is Yrbeth I think.
However I prefer Eruina and even I play with Sylvan , Fortress or Inferno , which have high level destructive spells in their guilds I always buy her and make her my main if she appears in tavern . Of cause , when I playing with another faction I prefer standart perks in Attack skill - archery and battle frenzy instead of retribution because other faction creatures would never take a solid positive morale needed for retribution effectivness .
____________
The Darkness is the right hand of the Light , the Light is the left hand of the Darkness .
|
|
Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 21, 2007 06:12 PM |
|
Edited by Shauku83 at 18:13, 21 Jan 2007.
|
Sorgal isn't great.. no matter what way you put it. The Lizard Bite damage is normally 0.50 of the damage, and a level 15 Sorgal has it 0.675. Also the ability doesn't take Attack into consideration, which is high on Warlocks, neither it takes defence (which can be negated by the Rider Charge ability)
Of course there are situations when the ability is useful, but that really is an exception. Just my point of view of course.
Edit. With the bug(?) 2.0 involved, I change my mind!! 
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 21, 2007 06:17 PM |
|
|
Maybe it's not really a bug. These idiots like to toy with us and make unannounced changes. They are too bored to make a full list
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 21, 2007 06:35 PM |
|
|
Well it would be something good from their part if it was added, because that would make Sorgal actually an ok Hero. It sure would be nice to know these things though  And yes, I agree with Dungeonian, that would drop Yrbeth to the last position.
|
|
dfortae
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 21, 2007 08:16 PM |
|
|
Yeah, the lizard bite does much more than it claims. Kind of like how the puppet master claims the control will be lost if it is attacked. His lizard bite special is fantastic for creeping, that it what I was referring to. I can creep some very tough creatures.
Using haste by the hero on the blood furies, and positioning the raiders close to enemies takes them out quickly. Since the raiders take up 4 squares, you can usually get by 2 or 3 enemy groups and often taken most down within a turn or two. Having the tent and war machines (which is easy for this hero to get) makes the raiders stay alive much easier as well.
It's not the perfect strategy, but it is effective and fun to play (little variety).
|
|
Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 21, 2007 08:34 PM |
|
Edited by Shauku83 at 20:36, 21 Jan 2007.
|
Yep, I belive it's a more viable strategy now. I just remember trying it out long time ago, and I couldn't help my Raiders getting killed. Now, when they do normal damage with Lizard Bite, it's not only a good ability in creeping but will cause severe headache to the opponent in a full armies conflict! Still I dislike starting with Battle Frenzy, it helps Dungeon little.
Edit. Btw, it is not any easier for this hero to get Warmachines than to any other Warlock; the changes are the same. 
|
|
theluCas
Adventuring Hero
thiNk
|
|
posted January 21, 2007 09:06 PM |
|
|
|
Nice article, i read it all.
|
|
ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
|
|
posted January 23, 2007 09:42 AM |
|
|
Sometimes it's very handy. One time I had 3 Minotaurs and attacked 120 Steel Golems (not creeps!) and the Bite of the Lizard killed 40 Steel Golems! pretty much for 3 minotaurs, don't you think?
Also, the Blood Fury/Grim Raider combo is very effective, because even if you have only one Fury left, you still use the Lizard's bite with init 16 (you can split the furies to keep at least one alive). You just have to use it right
|
|
FreshHope
Adventuring Hero
Defender of Light
|
|
posted January 23, 2007 07:33 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Sometimes it's very handy. One time I had 3 Minotaurs and attacked 120 Steel Golems (not creeps!) and the Bite of the Lizard killed 40 Steel Golems! pretty much for 3 minotaurs, don't you think?
Also, the Blood Fury/Grim Raider combo is very effective, because even if you have only one Fury left, you still use the Lizard's bite with init 16 (you can split the furies to keep at least one alive). You just have to use it right
LOL that sure is a making full use of the lizard bite's ability to the fullest. Well done!  
____________
Where there is Faith, Hope arises.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 29, 2007 02:26 PM |
|
|
I played some more with Kythra and thought I'd post my mind.
She definitely is better than I thought but it depends on how you'll handle her. I went mostly might with attack/leadership/destructive.
I can't say I absolutely love estates though you may build caritol a day faster if things go wrong and minotaur special is rather moderate. I love the bonus to their defence though and they hit harder though I don't really use them early. Unless there this nasty stack of master hunters in a crucial mine that I can't take out with furies or grim raiders(don't have money) so I defend and cast away.
With just one lvl in leadeship you get 40% chance for good morale. That's sick when creeping with blood furies from day 2 and you will easily get to play again before archers can hit you. So you can tackle ranged fire early with even less casualties-usually none.
Add attack with power of speed and you'll hit MANY TIMES. And of course retribution for a nice bonus damage.
Since you go might you'll build just mage guild 1 early. So you can build altar of elements fast, then altar of elements. By then you should have retribution and elemental vision to boost your damage considerably. Also you get to build dragons a lot earlier this way. Just build mage guild 3 for summon creatures and an aoe, then feel free to go creeping. Naturally empower spells is of lesser importance this way.
The ice bolt isn't that good and it seems only fair it costs 6 mana. Why? Early you'll get to play more times to act with no retaliation so casting every other day kinda balances it out. Anyway soon you'll get secrets of destruction and hall of intrigue. Maybe even buy an artifact from trade guild. And you'll get freezing effects for sure which helps more with a might warlock.
BUT. I'm not entirely sure it's the best thing to do anytime. Against very defensive types you'd rather depend on magic. They'll hit you once with a powerful fast unit(paladin, warlord) and kick your butt with your pathetic defense in a few rounds even though they'll have bad casualties. Seems more fitting to use against magic factions such as academy.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted January 29, 2007 02:58 PM |
|
|
Hey, for creeping ore pit and sawmill you can get lvl1 mage guild and use a cheap level1 spell instead of expensive icebolt! The icebolt shines later, with master of Ice it will often save your units if casted on time.. The good point of having Icebolt at start is that you don't need to spend any resources on guilds and still get a moderately powerful destructive spell with secondary effect, not that you're gonna go ice-frenzy at start, cuz 10 mana kinda limits it. Sadly.
And leadership is a really GREAT perk, and with retribution even better.. A "might" warlock focuses on initiative, so Leadership+power of speed make his army act twice or thrice as often as normally, which makes up for a "non-might" hero.. and luck+elemental vision fill in naturally, making your army a very nasty damage dealer. The bad point is that they fall fast, yeah, but there is no invincible strategy at this game (let's forget training abuse now cuz tommorow it will be dead anyway ;p)
|
|
TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
|
|
posted January 29, 2007 03:57 PM |
|
|
Doomforge you should try Lethos! I really wonder why you haven't mentioned him. He is probably the best as a might hero. He starts with decay and he usess his big spellpower to poisson the enemies before the battle starts, and after that you can focus on knightish spells like mass slow, mass suffering , mass confusion , cause he starts with dark magic.
Anyway I think Dungeon should be a mix between might and magic.
Luck is the best example for that : great might skill, but with warlocks luck it also is great for magic.
Also Attack, gives you power of speed.
And there is more : Enlightment , great magic skill, but it also gives you tons of attack !
So you can go for Luck,Attack, Enlightment and Destructive, and keep the last spot for Sorcery which will eventually come. Maybe develop more the knightish part of the hero (attack -> tactics -> power of speed -> retribution ) first, but in the end you have to get the magic too, cause without it, I think you cannot win.
Or you can try the unconventional Lethos way 
Also I consider Kythra a good secondary hero, but nothing more than that. Also you are underestimating Yrwanna ... yes the survivability is not increased very much, but you get to score a first powerfull hit with those Blood Furies, and if you also get luck, you might take out a whole stack.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted February 21, 2007 09:05 AM |
|
|
Ok guys, things changed a lot since I wrote the guide
I started to LOVE the magic focus... and I keep playing with Vayshan, going full destructive all the time.
Well, I have to admit that if dungeon player creeps correctly, he may do it as well as Deleb. Well, almost.
That was very easy.. empowered lucky circle of winter plus 10 spellpower and voila! I have to admit that I took some exp from chests to fasten the spellpower raising. :X Oh, and I got nice artie when starting the game and another +2 sp one next to my castle. Wand of beginner, or something like that No enlightment, though. That's not 86wyp's 40 titans ofc, but it's still not bad to kill those matriarchs so easily.
Last time I played with my friend, going sylvan.. Took Vayshan as usual. I like his easy access to warlock's luck and powerful starting army, so I tend to stick with him the most. The fun part was that I wasn't offered advanced destructive till level 15! Pathetic. I had to run through whole map with enemy scouts on my back, killng everything and even taking exp from chests early to reach it. Finally..
Who ever said archmages are tough enemies? Well, after that battle I got expert destructive. Finally. Too bad my army was in pathetic shape, compared to my rival's monstrous army. I had almost no gold, so all I could do was getting matriarchs, deep hydras, raiders and minotaurs (not all). THat's it.
The first battle turned out pretty good.. well, I had to run, but who cares? He got ossir, almost 100 master hunters(and a ton of other units ofc) and his favored enemy was: deep hydra, grim raider, mino guard. Zomg. and he totally outmassed me, he had WAY bigger army. I was 16, he was 14, but he had a lot of attack arties (and 12 ATT,12 DEF, wtf). Anyway, It was fun to watch his hunters dying to a simple empowered lucky circle of winter, though my forces were slaughtered quickly.
I ran, leaving almost nothing behind.. Well, 5 luck and 20 SP solves. Too bad that in my castle, I had almost no gold, and couldn't afford more than half of possible matriarchs, hydras, minos, and raiders. I also bought 4 furies and 5 scouts (I run out of gold), and it was a very good idea to buy those scouts, actually..
Too bad for him that he was dumb enough to put those druids so close to each other, so my lovely 1728 dam circle killed them all. ;p
And that's how it turned out.. 5 scouts remaining and my turn.. I was really afraid that I won't get luck this time and they resist the spell, which will result in my loss.. but fortunately.. They didn't. Bwahah. 
and here's my hero after the battle
So, in other words, I won with a pathetic army, and circle of winter as my best spell against endgame perfect sylvan army with half of my army being favored enemies.
I guess magic is the best way for dungeon after all.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted February 21, 2007 01:41 PM |
|
|
Well the naturally high spellpower and accessible +knowledge abilities plus the racial do give a hint!
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
sq79
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 21, 2007 04:33 PM |
|
|
Hehe quite impressive screenshot u got there doomforge , was wondering was the fight with the matriaches in peninsula ? Was that fought in week 1 ?
Because i remember deleb did it in week 1 day 4/5
Seems we have different view on dungeon heroes, For me, i think yrwanna and sinitar is the best. While those with skill slots dark magic or attack are 2nd fiddle.
They're kinda stuck to destructive. A game winner is lucky empowered meteor shower always.
Their level 5 and 7 troops are really good and value for money as what they need is lots of hp to stay on field so their dungeon hero can do lots of implosion and meteor shower
Kythra is good as 2nd imo, but because extra 250/day from estates.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted February 21, 2007 04:37 PM |
|
|
yes, the first screen is peninsula, but it's not the game I've played with the Sylvan player.
It was second week, if I remember correct. Deleb can do it in first week, but she has to take exp from chests to make her skills/level grow enough to take the matriarchs.
|
| |
|
|
