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| Thread: In-depth Acadmy review |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted February 02, 2007 05:27 PM |
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actually these chinese guys , are starting to grow on me ... the strategy(MMR) is probably the best one for academy. without a fast rush, academy really s u x
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supphanat
Hired Hero
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posted February 02, 2007 06:45 PM |
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Quote:
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Hamachi all the way  ... it even works better than the ubi place of meeting
That's cool! Then I think we will have games very soon. Tell the players you know and let them come to play with us.
Hi I would like to join as well.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted February 02, 2007 06:47 PM |
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ToH or what ?
Anyway , the hamachi network i'm on is ToHeroes20 / password:toh !
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supphanat
Hired Hero
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posted February 02, 2007 07:04 PM |
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ToH or what ?
Anyway , the hamachi network i'm on is ToHeroes20 / password:toh !
maybe hamachi because I have never played with human. I want to pratice for a few game first before goint to ToH. I think in ToH when you lose the game, you have to record the result, right? So I need to practice without recording first. By the way, can you teach me how to use hamachi?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 06, 2007 01:31 AM |
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I played with academy MMR after all this time and I have some observations to share. In the past I had used it several times yet according to the map and available resources the priority in my building would change. What I also disliked about it was its preconceived rushing ideology something which cannot be done in any map nor is enjoyable as taking your time, building your dwellings and enjoying a big final battle. I can't claim to have found the greatest combination but rather one that can be used in normal and bigger maps without losing on your total units and still having some potent spell combinations.
Week 1
As usually I begin by upgrading my gremlins and begin creeping with Jhora -motw my first priority. During week 1 I build gargoyles, mage guild 3 and town hall which is more important than it seems for MMR.
Meanwhile I get summoning and according to the spells I pick dark or destructive while taking lvls in sorcery and enlightenment(which can be overlooked in small maps). In sorcery I'll get counterspell and some abilities from the magic skills which vary from game to game -I generally pick the basic masteries. Should be around lvl 10 or lower. [If you face inferno you may want to take master of conjuration and banish -DO NOT overlook it, with dungeon magic mirror&sap magic etc]
If you are offered defense or logistics(forget teleport assault, 6 lvls can be spent better, also you'll be low on golems so the march...) feel free to ditch them, they won't be as needed unless in a really big map.
Week 2
In week 2 I continue creeping by sending the secondary hero with reinforcements and upgraded gargoyles as Jhora's regular ones will be very weakened. I focus on mine flagging so by the end of the week I will have built capitol, colossi, mages and probably djinns. Rakshasas will have to wait as they require library(which will also be built in this week hopefully) and the resources shouldn't be enough. Djinns are also important but in the beginning of the next week  Time to return to town, regroup and face some tough shooters as succubi mistresses or generally TOO big stacks. Lvl is around 13-15.
Week 3
Strangely money are enough to buy the units and you can opt for upgrading the djinns already boosted by the horde dwelling. At this time in the game they are not so frail so why not? You will notice that these mage guilds have drained your wood and ore so you'll find it hard to build castle. Citadel and rakshasas are more preferable anyway and at that time you can also build golems(the resources were needed earlier). Mini arties should be kinda inaccessible and if you haven't captured the mines you'll be facing problems from now on. An alternative to the djinn sultans is to build artifact merchants and buy an artie or two.
On the adventure map you can now attack mage vaults(maybe, use your secondary to determine the threat just in case ), pyramids and other objects that give spells/resources since you should have 1 or 2 magic skills in expert. You may consider getting a 3rd skill. Waiting to build mage guild 5 may hurt you in the meantime if you are ambushed, after all you can visit them again next month.
Week 4+
From then on you get the remaining mage guilds and build arties for your key units such as colossi and rakshasas, mostly those that make them tanky(resistance/defence) and lucky(you still need damage). The spells can do the rest and after all your opponent should have a little advantage in unit numbers. If you already haven't you'll face the dilemma of buying artifacts or upgrading the colossi(mmm!) but at any rate you'll have enough of an army to withstand a full-frontal assault such as an inferno one!  At one time I found it hard to repel a demonlord with full army in week 4 and I could easily have lost.
Basically what has transpired so far is a week's growth for rakshasas and golems sacrificed(but building colossi) for a higher lvl and a chance to fill up your magic skills, something you desperately need. A nice compensation in my book. If you had also taken enlightenment(just the base skill) you should have a pretty noticeable lvl advantage(and stats  ).
If you go for mage guild 5 in week 2 the clock starts ticking. If you don't get your opponent(s) in time you may be overwhelmed by their numbers later. Hopefully I will further improve this MMR version but at the time I'm kinda busy with the ratings.
Any feedback appreciated.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted March 06, 2007 08:52 AM |
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Edited by dschingi at 08:52, 06 Mar 2007.
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Hey, nice thoughts again Elvin. I mainly agree about the skills you mentioned. Just don't forget Light Magic, Resurrection itself can be worth it. I see Enlightenment as a bonus for later, but magic schools have priority to learn high lvl spells fast.
I don't have time to write more now...
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open source for an open mind
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 06, 2007 10:46 AM |
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Jhora totally sucks, use Nur for MMR.. really
and don't use it against Inferno, seriously. Works against other towns, though.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted March 06, 2007 11:38 AM |
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I find Nathir to be the best academy hero... and I don't use MMR, but I could depending on the map I play. In fact I don't build mage guilds at all ( except lvl1 which is prerequisite for money  ). My strategy is to gather magic from the map ... Mage Vaults , Utopias etc... The fireball becomes really powerfull in his hands, and also I try to get Armageddon asap , with the methods mentioned above . after that i build resistance artifacts for all my creatures ( so i can cast armageddon on them) and go for the kill . Fireball + Arma + Implosion can handle almost anything your opponent has in the 4th week. Also I use 2 schools of magic at most ( Destructive + Summoning or Destructive + Light Magic, but most of the times single Destructive might be best). Very important skills are Enlightment , Sorcery ... Defense could be a very nice solution too, making your troops take more punches until you finish your opponent . Also you could go for War Machines too , with the huge knoledge of the Wizard they really are good. Logistics is always nice to have, and you could boost your golems with March of the Golem !
On maps without magic places on them , things could be harder... and probably MMR might be a good idea . And if you get lvl5 guild very fast, you can choose the 2nd type of magic you want ... Phoenix & no Arma => Summoning, Ressurection & no Phoenix , Arma or Puppet => Light, Arma => nothing new ,Puppet & no Arma or Phoenix => Dark. Getting none of these 4 spells might hurts alot  , but there are also some great lvl4s : Meteor Shower , Frenzy , Chain Lightning... For Light and Summoning though , which are academy's main i don't see any gamewinning spell at lvl 4 though , which is not nice at all
Anyway Academy works alot better on maps with magic stuff on, cause you dont waste resources on mage guilds, and you can focus you attention on mini-arts very early.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 06, 2007 11:55 AM |
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mini-arties never were an option early, you need a LOT of knowledge to make them really useful.. a highly endgame-orientated ability.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted March 06, 2007 12:14 PM |
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lool ... by week 4 you should have at least 20 knowledge. and that is enough to make some nice & cheap resistance artifacts. they are a very valid option
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 06, 2007 01:01 PM |
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Elvin: nice strategy But I'd rather build up the Djinns and the Treasure Cave (more gold) before the Colossi but that's just me.
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baniaque1
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 06, 2007 01:41 PM |
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my experiences show that djiins are almost completely useless, even in the final battle every other unit is better... i usually just buid them to reach treasury, and then often even don`t recruit them till the end, or take 10 of them, give to secondary hero, who can creep his own way
playing MMR academy is dependant on resources you can get, i.e. when you are able to capture sulfur mine early, you go for mages on week 1, if you have gathered a little more mercury and gems than starting 5, you can go for first week golems, and still be able to build 3 lvls of magic, if you need cheap town point and its 7th day, you can build gargoyles... and so on... basically the goal is to have capitol and colossi on week 3 (sometimes with castle but it requires a bit of luck in getting much ore), if a map is heavy its week 4 latest, other units are not so obvious in my game style
and djins turn to be mostly unrecruited, and gold spend on upgrading and buying them would be almost always better spent, by upping collossi, rakshasa, or mages - when you have big units like colossi rakshasa and jinns, and you do the tactic before the final battle, its always better to place them the way that collossi and rakshasa would avoid the first opponent attack, than djins, we all know djinns are low HP, and that results in their dead before they take any action, still its a better option than having collossi or rakshasa being attacked at first round.
so the conclusion is better not to get them at all, and develop other units, sometimes i take 3 or 4 to cast confusion (luckily), when i face hard shooters
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 06, 2007 01:44 PM |
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Well, if you don't recruit Djinns, one of your creatures will still be the first target of the enemy... probably the precious Titans
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baniaque1
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 06, 2007 02:00 PM |
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thats correct, but when you place units before the final battle, you cah protect one, maybe two stacks of big creatures from being hit before they act (ofc its also luck and sometimes its different, but generally thats the rule imo)
so its better to protect titans and rakshasa, thus your djiins are most of times close enough to be hit at first
they are weak... they would probably all die from the first shot
if you don`t have them, titans are not always first target, as 7lvl unit they have good stats, and stack of enemy`s shooters (or furies, dancers, sprites etc) would rather choose gremlins instead, to do more dmg, and thats good for you, cause gremlins are not so important in the final battle as a dmg dealer, but rather as mechanics, and they do repair all golems even when outnumbered
i dont like them (djinns), the one more reason is they have not only low HP but also high dmg, thats why they are selected to be hit at first
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 06, 2007 02:06 PM |
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I have to say I disagree about the Gremlin thing. The Master Gremlin is very durable and low damage dealer so it's best to avoid attacking it unless the Golems cause you trouble. The Titans are a good first-target, especially for things that ignore defense (like Rider Charge or spells). Anyway, why most say that when attacking Titans you do less damage? If you look at my calculations here you'll realize the high level creatures do sooo pathetic damage and die sooo easily without their high attack and defense (even with the high defense, they still have very low HP compared to low tier units)
Low level creatures do more damage and have much more HP, but they have low attack and defense. So I'd really target the Titans first, even if they have high defense value.
EDIT: of course, the Djinns are better as first-targets because they're fragile and high-damage dealers
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 06, 2007 02:18 PM |
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Quote:
thats correct, but when you place units before the final battle, you cah protect one, maybe two stacks of big creatures from being hit before they act (ofc its also luck and sometimes its different, but generally thats the rule imo)
so its better to protect titans and rakshasa, thus your djiins are most of times close enough to be hit at first
they are weak... they would probably all die from the first shot
if you don`t have them, titans are not always first target, as 7lvl unit they have good stats, and stack of enemy`s shooters (or furies, dancers, sprites etc) would rather choose gremlins instead, to do more dmg, and thats good for you, cause gremlins are not so important in the final battle as a dmg dealer, but rather as mechanics, and they do repair all golems even when outnumbered
i dont like them (djinns), the one more reason is they have not only low HP but also high dmg, thats why they are selected to be hit at first
With horde building, they are tougher than Imperial Griffins by themselves, actually. The "weakness" feeling comes from wizard's pathetic def. Giving them def arties and buying some neat ones at artie merchant, plus visiting a few arenas and marletto towers should do the trick. Ah, and there's mass endurance, if you can get it.
Your last sentence is without sense. Would you like them more if they had pitiful damage instead of high?
TowerLord: 20 knowledge on week 4? Don't make ma laugh. What kinds of maps you've started to play? 
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 06, 2007 02:35 PM |
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Well, TowerLord plays maps with two towns and I dislike them. I mean, why you need so high armies? Is it to prove that Magic is better than Might or that Light and Dark magic schools should be better than Destructive? Or that Light and Dark are underpowered and need big armies to actually be like Destructive?
I think those maps are just for Might-lovers and want to make Light and Dark magic schools even more powerful than they are now
Quote:
Your last sentence is without sense. Would you like them more if they had pitiful damage instead of high?
He probably meant that the Djinns are targeted first because of their high damage Why don't people get it that does not mean the creatures are weak - but rather, too strong to actually let them live!
Anyway, if it wasn't for high damage-dealers (like Furies and Djinns and Sprites etc), the others would have been targeted and you'd say they are fragile and completely useless.
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baniaque1
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 06, 2007 02:38 PM |
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I will surely change my style of developing (at least for some test games: )), and try to give them some def arti, and recruit them all for the last battle, and not to upgrade colossi if needed
usually when my game ends on normal map (week 5 to 7), i have 6-8 titans and over 30 djinns
i play 2-3 multi games every night (in most of them I suck with this MMR ), so i will post my impressions soon
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 06, 2007 02:39 PM |
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Quote:
Well, TowerLord plays maps with two towns and I dislike them. I mean, why you need so high armies? Is it to prove that Magic is better than Might or that Light and Dark magic schools should be better than Destructive? Or that Light and Dark are underpowered and need big armies to actually be like Destructive?
I still don't see how 2 towns influence knowledge (except for warlocks). I presume the side-effect of that is the map being extremely rich.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 06, 2007 02:41 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Well, TowerLord plays maps with two towns and I dislike them. I mean, why you need so high armies? Is it to prove that Magic is better than Might or that Light and Dark magic schools should be better than Destructive? Or that Light and Dark are underpowered and need big armies to actually be like Destructive?
I still don't see how 2 towns influence knowledge (except for warlocks). I presume the side-effect of that is the map being extremely rich.
Of course, if the map has two towns it IS rich
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