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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Sylvan Heroes Review
Thread: Sylvan Heroes Review This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted February 17, 2007 11:44 AM
Edited by VokialBG at 14:46, 20 Feb 2007.

Sylvan Heroes Review

Weak Heroes:

Dirael

Specialty:

Wasp Swarm spell is more effective depending on hero level.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Summoning Magic
Master of Conjuration

Well, maybe one of the the weakest heroes in the game:

1. She start with Summoning magic, and as Sylvan hero she need Light and Destructive.
2. The Specialty is one of the weakest in the game too (maybe the weakest), even on level 15 the
Wasp Swarm spell deal only 135 deamage (hero with 8 Spell Power and Expert Summoning Magic), and cost 5 mana, just for example, the Lighting Bolt spell deal 153 Demage (the same hero).

Dariel start with the Wasp Swarm spell, and this can help in early game..... a little.

Gilraen

Specialty:

All Blade Dancers and War Dancers in hero's army gain +1 to their attack and defense for every two levels of the hero, starting on first level.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Defense
Protection

Gilraen is better than Dariel, but yes... he is weak, another one of the weakest heroes in the game...

He start with Defense and Protection, the Wood Elves Hero is always good in Defence and Spell Power, and the creatures are not bad in defence. Actually the defence skill in needless for Sylvan (well the defence skill is always useful, but this is whole slot, and you can use it for luck or something more needful for Sylvan)

The Blade/War Dancers are creatures with very, very, very good stats for Lv. 2, but they have very low % survival, and they are easy to kill with almost all creatures on Lv 3-7...


=> The specialty sucks

Average Heroes:

Vinrael

Specialty:

All experience that hero gains after battles is increased by 2% per hero level.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Enlightenment
Intelligence

Like Gilraen, Vinrael's starting skills (the Intelligence) skill is needless. This hero is weak in early game too.

He is good forbig maps, with many enemies and battles.

Wyngaal

Specialty:

Creature's in hero's army have a +0.5% per hero level bonus to their initiative on the start of combat.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Attack
Tactics

Well good hero, but weak in the game start... good skills and Specialty, all elves are strong in initiative, this hero can make them even stronge , on 15 Lv. he will get +7,5 initiative, and on Lv. 20 - 10 initiative, so not bad, but 10 initiative for 20 levels is not good enough, the mass light spells are better than the specialty...

Anwen

Specialty:

All Sylvan creatures under hero's command inflict +2% more damage to favoured enemy for every hero's level

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Defense
Protection

Another weak in the start hero... Defense and Protection are not the best skills for the elves too, in my opinion, the avanger skill is not one of the strongest skill in the game, actually, everything here is just luck...

Not bad hero in large maps with good amount of neutrals (and from different variations)

Talanar

Specialty:

Blade Dancer, War Dancer, Hunter, Master Hunter, Druid, Druid Elder get Enraged ability.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Leadership
Recruitment

Talanar is very good hero for early game, he start with skills:

Leadership - good for all races (without Necro) and Recruitment - not bad in the game start

The specialty is good for the game beginning, you can split the Pixies in 2 stacks (one of them with only 1 creature) and just send the 1 Pixies so certain death , your Dancers, Hunters and Druids will get Enraged ability, and this can help a lot in the start and in neutral battles.

but the specialty is not very good in final battles.

..., also Talanar start with ballista - another good thing for the beginning

Good Heroes:

Ossir

Specialty:

All Hunters and Master Hunters in hero's army gain +1 to their attack and defense for every two levels of the hero, starting on first level.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Luck
Magic Resistance

One of the best heroes in Sylvan, the Hunters are good shooters, not strong, but not weak too, in good amount, and with Ossir, they get very, very, very good creatures.

Ossir start with Luck and Magic Resistance, very good beginning, and very useful skills for all races! You can easily reach Evlen luck and Dead man curse, and the skill is needed for the Nature's Luck (Units in hero army always have luck rolled on attacks.).

Also he start with some hunters - very useful in early game.

The Best Hero (in my opinion):

Ylthin

Specialty:

All Unicorns and Silver Unicorns in hero's army gain +1 to their attack and defense for every two levels of the hero, starting on first level.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Light Magic
Master of Blessings

Maybe the best starting hero here (the best):

1. She start with a Unicorn (only 1 but it is Lv. 5 creature, very good start).
2. She start with with a First Aid Ten! You can attack the weak neutral armies with the Unicorn and heal it.
3. She start with Basic Light Magic --->>> Master of Blessings (Grants mass effects to Divine Strength and area effect to Cleansing spells, but doubles the casting cost of these spells. Hero wastes only half of his current initiative to cast these spells). LoL!

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted February 17, 2007 12:07 PM

Wasp swarm was never meant to do damage.. it's the best stopper in the game(0,6 - wow). Too bad dirael boosts it very poorly, like 5% more at level 20 or so.. that makes her sucky. Still, if you manage to get sorcery and get non-splitted creeps, you may kill, say, 40 titans or so with 30 master hunters, if only you have enough mana..

Talanar has the worst speciality in game, IMO. At least he starts with a quite rare leadership skill, so it's ok.

Wyngaal is bugged, and so, he is the best sylvan hero in late game.

The single unicorn of Ylthin can't do a damn thing, seriously.. unless you're afraid of conscripts, or..

Anwen has a decent speciality, but bad (common) starting skills.

Ossir is good, but I wouldn't depend on master hunters that much, they are very fragile.

Gilraen sucks. Just because.

Vinrael is just average.

Just my 2 cents

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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted February 17, 2007 12:41 PM

Sylvan town is good, but heroes just suck! And you made a mistake: Ossir WILL NEVER reach Dead man's curse, why? He starts with protection, and you need soldier's luck, Elven luck! and there already got 3 skills... So a mistake you made and to me that makes Ossir worse ! ... Those elves need Soldiers luck, elven luck and dead man's curse... so, their heroes suck, their town awesome

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 17, 2007 01:26 PM
Edited by Elvin at 15:15, 17 Feb 2007.

Quote:

Gilraen

Specialty:

All Blade Dancers and War Dancers in hero's army gain +1 to their attack and defense for every two levels of the hero, starting on first level.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Defense
Protection

Gilraen is better than Dariel, but yes... he is weak, another one of the weakest heroes in the game...

He start with Defense and Protection, the Wood Elves Hero is always good in Defence and Spell Power, and the creatures are not bad in defence. Actually the defence skill in needless for Sylvan (well the defence skill is always useful, but this is whole slot, and you can use it for luck or something more needful for Sylvan)

The Blade/War Dancers are creatures with very, very, very good stats for Lv. 2, but they have very low % survival, and they are easy to kill with almost all creatures on Lv 3-7...


Not really. If you have tried him you know that he boosts their survivability a lot and his starting army is pretty good. Given some time his wardancers get dangerous with their combo and the battle commander ability boosts his strength right out of the blue.(leadership is easy to get) He actually makes his dancers durable when you charge them to block enemy ranged fire and they can keep doing it even better with these stats and a favourable morale. Such a great initiative... His starting defense is a bonus since he can easily get evasion or vitality to help sylvan's frail units which die no matter how much defense you have. I just don't like protection that much which is why I think him average.

Quote:

Vinrael

Specialty:

All experience that hero gains after battles is increased by 2% per hero level.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Enlightenment
Intelligence

Like Gilraen, Vinrael's starting skills (the Intelligence) skill is needless. This hero is weak in early game too.

He is good forbig maps, with many enemies and battles.


He is average but can gain a good lvl advantage with his special stacking with enlightenment, even more if you get exp enlightenment fast. To exploit his mana you could go destructive and leave out defense since he gets extra defence from the enlightenment lvls. OR get over that you have a useless starting ability and choose your own path. I feel he disrupts my inner harmony!

Quote:
Wyngaal

Specialty:

Creature's in hero's army have a +0.5% per hero level bonus to their initiative on the start of combat.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Attack
Tactics

Well good hero, but weak in the game start... good skills and Specialty, all elves are strong in initiative, this hero can make them even stronge , on 15 Lv. he will get +7,5 initiative, and on Lv. 20 - 10 initiative, so not bad, but 10 initiative for 20 levels is not good enough, the mass light spells are better than the specialty...
Quote:


Hmm he now gets 2% per lvl and people have begun banning him from games...Too much of a percentage.
Regardless of unfavourable chances he will get you to play before your opponent with a greater frequency thus utilizing another way of defending his creatures! Since he starts with attack, defense is obsolete and he must prepare for a charge to end battles quickly. Attack is best with frenzy and nature's wrath instead of archery and luck->soldier's luck, leadership is a must for his ambushing tactics! This way he may attack with some creatures twice before enemy units get to play.

Quote:

Good Heroes:

Talanar

Specialty:

Blade Dancer, War Dancer, Hunter, Master Hunter, Druid, Druid Elder get Enraged ability.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Leadership
Recruitment

Talanar is very good hero for early game, he start with skills:

Leadership - good for all races (without Necro) and Recruitment - not bad in the game start

The specialty is good for the game beginning, you can split the Pixies in 2 stacks (one of them with only 1 creature) and just send the 1 Pixies so certain death , your Dancers, Hunters and Druids will get Enraged ability, and this can help a lot in the start and in neutral battles.

but the specialty is not very good in final battles.

..., also Talanar start with ballista - another good thing for the beginning


I wouldn't call him a good one. Ok his special is better than you may think as the more the creatures that die the more attack you'll gain with enraged. Not exceedingly high but a +2-3 is not hard to get. But wardancers and hunters are the first to die, before they get the bonus and the druids aren't reknowned for their crazy attack power. Not much of a difference though it will help. Ballista? If you get warmachines good for you, you just 'gained' 4500 gold you'd spend in the blacksmith. Leadership has 10% chance to get which is pretty high, though Talanar ensures it. And recruitment... Nah, average.

Quote:
Ossir

Specialty:

All Hunters and Master Hunters in hero's army gain +1 to their attack and defense for every two levels of the hero, starting on first level.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Luck
Magic Resistance

One of the best heroes in Sylvan, the Hunters are good shooters, not strong, but not weak too, in good amount, and with Ossir, they get very, very, very good creatures.

Ossir start with Luck and Magic Resistance, very good beginning, and very useful skills for all races! You can easily reach Evlen luck and Dead man curse, and the skill is needed for the Nature's Luck (Units in hero army always have luck rolled on attacks.).

Also he start with some hunters - very useful in early game.



Naturally the best. He once ambushed my Wyngaal and even though i shot first his master hunters remained...Most of them. And raped me shortly after. His resistance is his natural hunter protection from spells further augmented by the unicorns' aura. A warlock will still get to them but with half damage in all probablility. And if they play first they'll do enough damage. Luck is the way to go and I hate it that only he has it. Resistance you may feel prevents you from getting elven luck fast but how faster will the ones who don't have luck get it? Great starting army indeed, maybe more than he should

Quote:

Ylthin

Specialty:

All Unicorns and Silver Unicorns in hero's army gain +1 to their attack and defense for every two levels of the hero, starting on first level.

Skills:

Basic Avenger
Basic Light Magic
Master of Blessings

Maybe the best starting hero here (the best):

1. She start with a Unicorn (only 1 but it is Lv. 5 creature, very good start).
2. She start with with a First Aid Ten! You can attack the weak neutral armies with the Unicorn and heal it.
3. She start with Basic Light Magic --->>> Master of Blessings (Grants mass effects to Divine Strength and area effect to Cleansing spells, but doubles the casting cost of these spells. Hero wastes only half of his current initiative to cast these spells). LoL!



I don't think so. Light is good but not a priority and you may not get divine strength or cleansing thus potentially a wasted ability. It's not as if you'll have the resources to get mage guilds early and other skills are more important in the beginning. You can get light later as it's not that rare. The tent isn't that great either though I like her concept! I'd say better for normal, big maps.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted February 17, 2007 01:40 PM
Edited by ZombieLord at 13:41, 17 Feb 2007.

Quote:
The single unicorn of Ylthin can't do a damn thing, seriously.. unless you're afraid of conscripts, or..

Really? How about no losses for Assassins, Scouts, and other tier1-ranged creatures

Ylthin is great, and her speciality is awesome too. I mean, don't you realize the +1 ATT/DEF per 2 levels thingy is stronger for higher tier units, because they 'cheat' in growth? (I mean, ALL the Unicorns (3) are better than ALL the Druids (4), or, not to mention, ALL the Sprites (10)) The Unicorns' damage is higher so the attack (+x%) will have a higher effect. Don't you see there is no high level unit specialist with this kind of speciality (Klaus, Eruina)? You do imagine what will happen if there was a Dragon specialist with +1 ATT/DEF per 2 levels, don't you?

Ylthin has the highest tier specialist (5)

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted February 17, 2007 01:43 PM

Ylthin kinda annoys me with that Unicorn AND the First Aid Tent.. she can afford no losses easily, and it's also useful for 30% magic resistance.

Ossir doesn't start with "more army" than other tier 3 specialized heroes in case anyone asks

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted February 17, 2007 01:46 PM

Quote:
Ossir doesn't start with "more army" than other tier 3 specialized heroes in case anyone asks

Yeah but his hunters are MUCH more useful for early creeping than, let's say, Razzak's Golems (after all, the starting army is important for early creeping, as it won't have a huge difference in the end of the game)

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted February 17, 2007 01:48 PM

Quote:
Yeah but his hunters are MUCH more useful for early creeping than, let's say, Razzak's Golems (after all, the starting army is important for early creeping, as it won't have a huge difference in the end of the game)
If you say he's better...

Anyway, why should he start with poorer army than Razzak? When things like that happen, heroes like Ylthin take shape, which is bad

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted February 17, 2007 01:50 PM

Quote:
Anyway, why should he start with poorer army than Razzak?
Theoretically, yes, it'll be poorer. Practically, not

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted February 17, 2007 01:53 PM

Practically here means your style of play maybe...

but heroes is just a game, a computer game -- therefore only numeric data. Nival are not perfect so you can't say "practically" for everyone.. If you just happen to battle with some spellcasters (enemy hero for example), hunters=dead, golems will survive due to 50% magic protection if a map had 2 enemy towns close 1 day each other

Theory can be always put in what you call practice, if you want it

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted February 17, 2007 01:56 PM

Oh yeah man, the golems you start with are a MASSIVE army. It will matter in a player vs player battle!

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted February 17, 2007 01:59 PM

As I said, in day 1, probably yes.. hunters won't do much difference either. If you are referring to "creeps" then that's another story 'cause that's map specific -- you can also have maps which have enemy towns close to 1 day like I said (they need 1 day to reach each other ).. maps can be designed every way, and Nival are not perfect.

ps: the simplest example for your practical pleasure is vs sprites

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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted February 17, 2007 02:06 PM
Edited by sq79 at 14:14, 17 Feb 2007.

The generated damage from master hunter's growth/week is by far the largest for creature of any tier
14/week with average of 5-8 = 6.5 x 2 (double shot) = 13
13x14 = 182
On average Ossir makes 1 hunter = 1 inquistor's damage at level 20+
Master hunters double shot have always been the core to sylvan's army since early homm days, and a master of hunt simply makes them better.
Any battle against ossir, opponent will need to kill hunter's first, and that will usually mean they neglect the other high level fast creatures like dragons and unicorns which will be equally dangerous

I would rate
Wyngaal is bugged now, can't really compare. But blessed with attack/tactics which is imo .. the most important skill for sylvan in late game and only 2% chance to learn it

Best heroes = ylthin and ossir on par.

Vinrael is slightly above average

And the rest are all average because they start with defense, and sylvan don't win much games learning defence as a skill since they already have high defence. They need attack/tactics very badly to do the all out charge in first turn for dragons,unicorns, sprites, dancers (if wind striders boots is available)  

Worst = dirael, don't understand why she starts with summoning


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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted February 17, 2007 02:12 PM

Quote:
As I said, in day 1, probably yes.. hunters won't do much difference either. If you are referring to "creeps" then that's another story 'cause that's map specific -- you can also have maps which have enemy towns close to 1 day like I said (they need 1 day to reach each other ).. maps can be designed every way, and Nival are not perfect.

Of course I'm referring to creeps, what else can you attack at week 1?
Come on man, stop talking such non-sense. There is no map that has enemy towns close to 1 day like.

It seems you hate practical things. Too bad the unit costs are practically set, as you can't say how expensive is a creature ability by theory.

Quote:
Any battle against ossir, opponent will need to kill hunter's first, and that will usually mean they neglect the other high level fast creatures like dragons and unicorns which will be equally dangerous


A perfect practically example

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted February 17, 2007 02:14 PM

Quote:
Of course I'm referring to creeps, what else can you attack at week 1?
Come on man, stop talking such non-sense. There is no map that has enemy towns close to 1 day like.
I can make one, wanna try it?

Quote:
It seems you hate practical things. Too bad the unit costs are practically set, as you can't say how expensive is a creature ability by theory.
Yes and no, Nival are still humans like you (or are you mindless zombie, can't know, sorry just joking no offense) who says their design and creeps they put are "practical"?

Quote:
A perfect practically example
I think duel hero Razzak is also practical, since you can play him with the right map and tier 3 dwellings, yeah

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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted February 17, 2007 02:19 PM

Quote:
A perfect practically example
I think duel hero Razzak is also practical, since you can play him with the right map and tier 3 dwellings, yeah


A level 26 raazak, with the mighty golems only kill 100 marksmen of a level 26 knight hero with 250 golems if we talked about realistic hero development. That is if they managed to escape the precise shot.

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted February 17, 2007 02:22 PM

Teleport spell can be got with ease (precise shot is always overestimated). and yeah, with March of the Golems, the speed is sensational.. anyway, is Teleport Assault available to Wizards? I know the duel Razzak cheats, but just wondering...

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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted February 17, 2007 02:28 PM
Edited by sq79 at 14:31, 17 Feb 2007.

Quote:
Teleport spell can be got with ease (precise shot is always overestimated). and yeah, with March of the Golems, the speed is sensational.. anyway, is Teleport Assault available to Wizards? I know the duel Razzak cheats, but just wondering...


2% chance only to get logs with wizards.
A blessed marksmen with precise shot can do around 20 damage to the golem, with retribution, and luck, its around 50/marksmen
Even in duel, raazak is smashed badly by ossir


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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted February 17, 2007 02:31 PM

Quote:
Yes and no, Nival are still humans like you (or are you mindless zombie, can't know, sorry just joking no offense) who says their design and creeps they put are "practical"?

THEY are practical, even though not perfectly balanced. What I'm saying is that you SHOULD consider things practical, from experience, so that it will be more balanced. If we would have followed the theoretical part, well, that leads us to version 1.0, no?

Oh yeah, Deleb was also theoretically created (her speciality is not THAT great), but experience tells she's overpowered (because she's good at creeping and because the 'Ballista' ability doubles her speciality). So yeah, some practical balances are needed here

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted February 17, 2007 02:34 PM

Quote:
Even in duel, raazak is smashed badly by ossir

And Ossir doesn't even use his high magic resistance in the duel, 'cause Razzak doesn't have any offensive spells

But Deirdre (even though she's not the best hero) sure kicks Ossir's butt.

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