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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Disecting the Conflux..
Thread: Disecting the Conflux.. This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
posted December 24, 2019 02:22 PM

Well, usually i saw that Conflux is either AI or neutral towns on custom maps, except Wings of Heaven(with Tower town you also start).

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted December 24, 2019 02:28 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 14:29, 24 Dec 2019.

@Monere Or you are being ironic or I don't get what you mean. I mentioned several other perks but that one wasn't pointed by anyone, so I started with it.
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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted December 24, 2019 02:49 PM

bloodsucker said:
@Monere Or you are being ironic or I don't get what you mean. I mentioned several other perks but that one wasn't pointed by anyone, so I started with it.
I wasn't being ironic. I do indeed agree that Conflux tiers 2 and 3 are overpowered. But that's the only thing I think that's overpowered from this atypical town (I say atypical because it has many non-living creatures, it's all shiny and slippery, even the name Conflux sounds surreal as phuck)
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted December 24, 2019 03:06 PM

monere said:
My username is monere (take a guess why!) ...


Yet, you are using the icon for the Naga's from Tower?
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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted December 24, 2019 03:27 PM

Maurice said:
Yet, you are using the icon for the Naga's from Tower?
"maurice, you filthy monkey... wave my hand for me! Wave it like you mean it!"

Couldn't help quoting... guess who!

Also, I wanted to have a magic elemental as avatar but I couldn't find one
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted December 24, 2019 03:51 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 15:54, 24 Dec 2019.

monere said:
@MonereI do indeed agree that Conflux tiers 2 and 3 are overpowered.


Overpowered is really thrown left and right these days...



Storms are obviously pretty damn good (decent damage combined with very nice survivability and shooting ability with no melee penalty + high speed) but does any of those perks particularly stand out? they are very solid, but I don't see anything remotely overpowered about this.

They are literally faster Lizard Warriors with +14% more bulk.

How OP Lizzies are?



Ice Elms are a hell lot less impressive and could be considered decent at best. They are Evil Eyes with +25% more bulk. That's it.

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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted December 24, 2019 04:05 PM

both air and water elementals have (roughly) 50% more HPs and damage than their archer counterparts (well, except for grand elves, but those are the exception to the rule).

When you are 2 archers with huge survivability and 50% more damage than other archers of the same tier you ARE overpowered. That's how I see it... and feel it on the battlefield, as well
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted December 24, 2019 04:27 PM

Doomforge said:
Overpowered is really thrown left and right these days...

I'm not saying Storm and Ice Elementals are overpowered (even if Storm definitely are). The thing is they both grow just six per week, like golems, if you get one more of each, you get about 15% growth of both from a single dwelling and that's what is overpowered.
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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted December 24, 2019 09:21 PM

maybe you meant to say sarcastic? or ironic? anyway...
bloodsucker said:
Doomforge said:
Overpowered is really thrown left and right these days...

I'm not saying Storm and Ice Elementals are overpowered (even if Storm definitely are). The thing is they both grow just six per week, like golems, if you get one more of each, you get about 15% growth of both from a single dwelling and that's what is overpowered.


Angel dwelling increase growth 50% too. so same problem happen?

unliss ofcourse in random map Storm dwelling occur too many times. if thats the case, then storm and ice should be considered tier 3 or even 4 units so it the dwelling doesnt occur that often.


also, when I thought about it, the pegasus and fire elementals are underpowered becuz dwelling give less than average.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted December 24, 2019 09:41 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 21:45, 24 Dec 2019.

monere said:
both air and water elementals have (roughly) 50% more HPs and damage than their archer counterparts (well, except for grand elves, but those are the exception to the rule).

When you are 2 archers with huge survivability and 50% more damage than other archers of the same tier you ARE overpowered. That's how I see it... and feel it on the battlefield, as well


Going by your logic Lizard Warriors and Evil Eyes are pretty damn OP too, they are only slighly worse then elementals.

Have you checked my charts? the storms are pretty decent in T2, but not outliers. Ice elems are quite average. Where's the +50% more damage you claim...?

yes they do have higher survivability then other shooters. But I'd gladly take damage over survivability for a low level shooter anyway. They are meant to assist you vs. the map, tanking with them really doesn't matter. You want damage, first and foremost..

and in that case, T2 Marksmen and T3 Grand Elves are more impressive.

bloodsucker said:
I'm not saying Storm and Ice Elementals are overpowered (even if Storm definitely are). The thing is they both grow just six per week, like golems, if you get one more of each, you get about 15% growth of both from a single dwelling and that's what is overpowered.


Well, that makes sense. I guess that the maps that give you multiple level 2 dwellings near your town really skew it in conflux' favor early in the game.

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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted December 25, 2019 01:33 AM

Quote:
Going by your logic Lizard Warriors and Evil Eyes are pretty damn OP too, they are only slighly worse then elementals
evil eyes are sturdy, but lizards aren't. None of them are as overpowered as the air / storm elementals, though.

Quote:
Have you checked my charts? the storms are pretty decent in T2, but not outliers. Ice elems are quite average. Where's the +50% more damage you claim...?
I have checked them. And the storms are not "pretty decent", they're a phucking cheat creature for their tier (more HPs than battle dwarves and zombbies + the biggest ATT, DEF and damage of all tier 2 creatures.

As for ice elementals... they're tanky, they're shooter and they also have good damage for a tanky shooter.

Ok, I exaggerated a bit with the 50% more damage part, but they still have increased damage and shooter normally have less damage than melee fighters. But not Conflux' shooters.

Quote:
They are meant to assist you vs. the map, tanking with them really doesn't matter
the thing is - and it's happened to me before - in an evenly matched game the storm and ice elementals are usually the last to die while the magic elementals and phoenixes are the first.

Quote:
You want damage, first and foremost
nope. YOU want damage first and foremost, I want defense... the more the better. I just can't get enough of watching 100 Archangels deal 16 damage to Tazar's mighty gorgons. It's just... climatic

Quote:
and in that case, T2 Marksmen and T3 Grand Elves are more impressive
the GEs yes, the marksmen not so much. I have always considered marksmen to be weak creatures (weak = squishy), but it's true that I almost never play Castle since I'm a passionate hater of that town, so maybe I don't know how to use the marksmen properly
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted December 25, 2019 11:12 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 13:54, 25 Dec 2019.

Orc said:
Angel dwelling increase growth 50% too.

But you have to beat 3 angels not 12 EE. A human can take it day 1 with any hero, any number of Sprites and no losses, computer may have to lose some but it is still an easy fight. Now, 6 AE, 6 WE, 5 FE and 4 EE plus a growth of one each in town is a tremendous reward for it. The Elemental Conflux guard was ok for RoE, where the elementals weren't upgradable nor mixable with the troops coming from any town but when you can get +50% growth of more then half of your creatures from a single dwelling is completely unbalanced.
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Ghost
Ghost


Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
posted December 26, 2019 08:48 AM

Conflux means/= confluence! That's why a lot of armies go to Conflux. But you can't resurrection them, only you can resurrect Pixies, Sprites, Firebirds, Phoenixes also Psychic Elementals by strategy like Skeletons or Warrior Skeletons. Conflux has strength: Sprites, Sprites with Storm Elementals or Storm Elementals with Phoenixes like Harpy Hags, Vampire Lords or Arch Devils, etc. Otherwise weak team. Ok Elementalist gets easier Combat than Advanture, it makes slow traveller, but powerful magic and spells. So Inteus has less strength than Luna on advanture land?! But Homm doesn't allow Conflux becomes extra power with Bloodlust. But you can hire him, if you're other alliance, so why he's existence. Then Planeswalker gets Combat and Adventure than Magic, but Magic University helps him also Elementalist, because he/she gains experience to update level, so he/she will update advanced skill, and to fill skills by fast. And then easier to look for Logistics, Pathfinding or artifacts. Not must forget that Elementalist has Air skill. Ok Conflux "guessed" Armageddon about Xeron. But strategy, example of Elementalist has the highest Power and Knowledge, and low Attack and Defence. Maybe Planeswalker is better hero/heroine. Their second skills are Combat and Advanture. So Conflux culture. When you understand surely, what I said ready or Estates means dwellings or legion artifacts. It needs extra income. Artillery for defence or hit and run with your Sprites. Ok etc

What JVC wanted to create fantasy team. Later on H4 Haven (ex-Castle) got a three Catapults like four Phoenixes in H3. Mathematician & strategy beats thought & idea.

Other, some map, you get a lot of armies from dwellings. Your team is Conflux. He or she thinks it doesn't enough?! And it showed how weak is. Ok map, walkthrough style. When how you beat the map with your weak team. Sorry I can't remember map's name.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted December 26, 2019 05:41 PM

Quote:
Angel dwelling increase growth 50% too.


Angels are also imbalanced to the point that even the ORIGINAL game (which contains nearly no balance changes and lets imbalance run rampant normally) nerfed them in the expansions.

But we didn't get another H3 expansion so Firebirds and Conflux stayed imba forever (well, until HotA, which possibly over-nerfed it)


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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted December 26, 2019 11:14 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 23:15, 26 Dec 2019.

NimoStar said:
Angels are also imbalanced to the point that even the ORIGINAL game  nerfed them in the expansions.

It wasn't the angels that were nerfed but the Griffins Conservatory.


NimoStar said:
until HotA, which possibly over-nerfed it

I think so, in my opinion they should have gone in a different direction, nerfing the creature parameters and not their growth.

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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted December 27, 2019 04:25 AM
Edited by Orc at 04:25, 27 Dec 2019.

wait how was griffin conservatory?

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monere
monere


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted December 27, 2019 07:07 AM

Orc said:
wait how was griffin conservatory?
grey, with rocky corners (always happy to help )
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted December 27, 2019 08:38 AM

Orc said:
wait how was griffin conservatory?

Just try it. The guard was multiples of 8 not 10, I think.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted December 27, 2019 09:48 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 09:49, 27 Dec 2019.

It is suprising for me to see players paying in hotA to play conflux, since almost everything that made this town great was nerfed.

I mean, 2 growth phoenix + a small fortune to pay for a building to get 3rd one... down from guaranteed 4. How is this not a crippling nerf

Sprites requiring magic university... yes, they can still defeat infinite amount of golems and zombies, but the price is pretty damn hefty for a tier 1 upgrade.

Luna got nerfed, IIRC? The AI was modified not to charge through firewalls if possible? Unsure on that one, because I've seen AI still doing that. And sometimes NOT doing that at all (just skipping turns while firewall-protected Storms kicked their butts - sort like a cheaper forcefield you start with).

Any explanation what makes HotA players still attracted to conflux, since I'm not 100% in the meta and I don't quite understand this, tbh?

I can see why you may want to play nerfed Necro (if you can get a 2nd necro city especially, or at least vamp's external dwelling) but Conflux?
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
posted December 27, 2019 10:11 AM

@Doom

You're right. Conflux is the absolute worst town in Hota to me.
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