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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 06, 2007 06:49 PM |
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By the way, suprising how many of you find pit lords useless. Never heard of power of speed and teleport assault, ey?
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted March 06, 2007 07:41 PM |
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Quote:
By the way, suprising how many of you find pit lords useless. Never heard of power of speed and teleport assault, ey?
So they get their one turn and then the battle finishes up around them.
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted March 06, 2007 08:24 PM |
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Quote:
By the way, suprising how many of you find pit lords useless. Never heard of power of speed and teleport assault, ey?
For the beginning of the battle, they are excellent. Killing some shooters and casters with these powerful magics might be great. Vorpal Sword is nice ability, good against Wizards with Phoenixes.
Except of that, it's slow creature with low initiative that just costs too much.
Still, it's better then the Shadow Matriarch.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 06, 2007 09:34 PM |
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Personally I don't think Pit Lords are weak. Their initiative is not so low, I can't believe people find marksmen faster  Of course they are beat by Wraiths, but those have no spells -- which can be awesome especially Meteor Shower 
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted March 06, 2007 09:45 PM |
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And you forgot the fact that even though Vorpal Sword and Harm Touch abilities look similiar, Vorpal Sword is much stronger.
While Harm Touch kills one creature, Vorpal Sword kills atleast one creature.
It can do more damage and kill more then one creature, what the Harm Touch can't do.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 06, 2007 09:49 PM |
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But Harm touch gets No retaliation, and dispel all enemy buffs no matter what. In fact that's why i use it: to dispel enemy buffs 
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted March 06, 2007 09:52 PM |
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Quote:
But Harm touch gets No retaliation, and dispel all enemy buffs no matter what. In fact that's why i use it: to dispel enemy buffs
It mostly helps against Pheonixes, when you fight against creatures like Treants, and when you have very low number of creatures.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 06, 2007 10:31 PM |
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No, no, no. Vorpal sword kills 1 creature more, and that's why it's 100000x better than harm touch.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 06, 2007 10:35 PM |
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Quote:
No, no, no. Harm touch kills 1 creature more, and that's why it's 100000x better than harm touch.
Er.. I think you meant "Vorpal Sword kills 1 creature more..." 
Why don't y'all get it that Harm touch is used to dispel enemy buffs? 
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted March 07, 2007 12:08 AM |
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I think harmful touch can be just as useful as vorpal blades. Neither is better than the other.
The Death is right about dispelling buffs and no retaliation being great. Everyone else is right about vorpal blades killing MORE than 1.
If I were to choose just one, I would choose harmful touch because of the automatic debuff (can't be resisted) with no retaliation. If you have 20+ creatures in the stack, what use is it to kill ONE MORE creature???
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted March 07, 2007 09:11 AM |
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Edited by Sanyu at 09:15, 07 Mar 2007.
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In siege combat, pit lords are more than useful.
Should the opponent decide to let his creatures clump together for certain reasons: offensive/defensive formation so on, then meteor shower becomes devastating. Else, gate your pit lords immediately and you'll find that they become very useful. Then spend the rest of the turns whittling down the defense of the opponent's 6th/7th tier creature (vulnerability, 5 castings worth -25 to defense) whilst waiting for the enemy to advance beyond the castle walls.
Even in normal combat, there are other ways than just TA to exploit the pit lord's strengths and cover up their weaknesses. For me, I always procure tactics as soon as possible. I also find getting the swift boots artifact a breeze. These effectively give pit lord a speed of 6. Throw in a couple of initiative-boosting artifacts and you'll find pit lords' turns coming faster in no time.
This becomes easier to achieve should you start with Nebiros.
Another way is simply to stack on those common morale-boosting artifacts.(leadership is too difficult to get)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 07, 2007 10:11 AM |
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Quote:
Er.. I think you meant "Vorpal Sword kills 1 creature more..."
Why don't y'all get it that Harm touch is used to dispel enemy buffs?
Exactly  fixed.
Guys, you don't talk about that "dispelling buffs" seriously, do you? You want to waste the only necro near-200 dam per weeek creature to dispel a single buff? Especially after mass spell, which buffed 7 units? It's pointless! It gives you next to nothing. Ok, maybe de-buffing an overgrown stack of buffed to oblivion paladins may be worthwile, but those will thrash you anyway ( In case there's +13 palas per week)
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 07, 2007 01:21 PM |
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Well, sometimes I just don't kill even ONE tier 7 with the Wraiths (when they become ~10) because Necro lacks Attack. And Harm Touch then will:
- do more damage
- no retaliation
- dispel buff
Anyway, what's so strong, for example to kill 6 Paladins instead of 5? (Vorpal Sword). And what's so weak to dispel the buffs of the Paladins (even a single buff is ok) and kill 1 Paladin instead of 5? AND receive no retaliation. I mean, you kill 4 more Paladins, but you also lose, let's say, 3 Wraiths in the retaliation, and all this without dispelling the Righteous Might and all the other buffs from the Paladins.
If 100% Cleansing is not good, then why you WASTE a HERO TURN to use it? And it sometimes isn't even 100%.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 07, 2007 01:52 PM |
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geez, you really don't think that way, do you?  What's better, to kill 1 pala or 6 palas? What kind of question is that? So what if you dispel the, say, righteus might off 10 paladins and kill one if they will do much more damage in next round than righteousmighted 4 paladins after vorpalsword? Think about that, it's rather easy.
Harm touch sucks, especially due to low importancy of level 7 units in this game and the lack of one-unit killerbuffs. Buffs are effective when they are casted as mass spells, and harm touch won't do a damn thing about that.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 07, 2007 01:57 PM |
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Yes but you also receive the retaliation, therefore two attacks of the Paladins. If you don't kill at least half of them, you'll end up with the Paladins causing more damage to your Wraiths even if you waited (not to mention you kill 1 Paladin with Harm Touch and also dispel Righteous Might)
Anyway, you may not like Harm Touch, but some like me find it useful at times. And I'm not saying it's better than Vorpal Sword, but that they are both equally useful.
Anyway, if tier 7 creatures are not that important, then Vorpal Sword sucks right? Because it will add a pathetic damage, not to mention the Pit Lords have low initiative and speed and when they come into melee, the battle is already over.
And don't start with Teleport Assault, because you waste that ability on the Pit Lords and could have done something else with the hero. Pit Lords are low-damage dealers for their tier anyway, so only Vorpal Sword may save their 'melee-force'
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted March 07, 2007 03:25 PM |
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Wraith's damage: 25-30. Much better then the Bone Dragon's (15-30).
Pit Lord's damage: 13-31.
Pit Lord's does less damage, slower, less initiative, costs more, but have those powerful spells.
Anyway, I prefer the Wraith.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 07, 2007 05:13 PM |
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yeah, ofc, pitlords suck, I suck, everything sucks except what YOU think is right. Damned theorycrafters!!
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 07, 2007 05:16 PM |
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I think it's YOU who is highly subjective here. If Vorpal Sword was given to Wraith and Harm Touch to Pit Lord, I'm sure you, who loves Inferno, would have said that Harm Touch is 10000x times better than Vorpal Sword
Anyway, I'm not saying you suck, and neither the Pit Lords. Only that IMO Wraiths are a little bit better
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 07, 2007 05:17 PM |
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For me both are good. Pit Lords have spells, very useful IMO.
But if you're ignoring that fact of course he and the matriarch are the weakest 
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 07, 2007 05:19 PM |
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Ah yes, the spells... almost forgot about them
Yeah, Pit Lords are not that bad at all, but a little expensive
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