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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Stupid AI
Thread: Stupid AI [ This thread is 6 pages long: (1) 2 3 4 5 6 ]
Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted March 19, 2007 07:33 AM

Stupid AI

I reckon a lot agree to the fact that the games AI isn't very good.
Even compared to Heroes II and III it is a dissapoinment to play against the computer.  It is often boring to play because of the stupid AI. Examples of this are such as:

- When the computer has the chance to conquer one of your castles, it doesn't and just walk past.

- When boarding a boat, it often just go back to land the next turn and then back to the boat again like it can't decide, and wastes a lot of time.

- When meeting a much stronger hero it might move closer to it rather than at least making an attempt to escape.

- Often the AI heroes do nothing, standing still on the map.

- Very often the AI locks itself inside a castle a large time of the game and just build armies, nothing more. It doesn't even send out scouts to recapture mines and such.

Also, why doesn't the AI flee anymore? In the manual it says that on Harder difficulties that it should do it very often.

What other examples do you have on bad gameplay from the computer?

Looks like Nival has put a minimal effort in intelligent programming in this game.

This is probably not moddable either. We just have to hope that they will make a patch with more intelligent AI, which is most unlikely

So what to do except for playing multiplayer?

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Darkeye

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Asheron
Asheron


Famous Hero
Ancient
posted March 19, 2007 07:45 AM

I played a game once where I intentionally let computer to take my castle(I wanted some chalenge).He just walked up and down,like he was confused or high
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alcibiades Online
alcibiades

Hero of Order
Really, Ubisoft?
posted March 19, 2007 07:54 AM

Quote:
This is probably not moddable either. We just have to hope that they will make a patch with more intelligent AI, which is most unlikely


It is, actually. I will not venture into a detailed description, but in the data/GameMechanics/RPGStats/DefaultStats.xdb file, you will actually be able to tweak a lot of these factors. I'm not sure exactly how it will affect game, but I think you can change priorities as how much value AI puts into gathering ressources, artificats, mines, towns, etc.; when AI retreats; whether AI attacks other AI players, etc.

You might wanna look into it and play around with the numbers, and see what it does to the game.
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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted March 19, 2007 07:55 AM

The original AI was broken and Nival hadn't kept a backup...But you know in 2.1 it seems a little better. It still is stupid as h*ll but it doesn't stand around, it comes for you when it has the advantage(or cowers in its region if not-but not in the castle) and heroes don't just move 2 tiles before stopping...They still do not retreat though which takes away any semblance of challenge.
As a side note you must have missed some dozens of AI complain threads from here and other forum hehe Yet for all this ubi does absolutely nothing. [insert indecent comment]
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Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted March 19, 2007 09:07 AM

I have noticed threads yes, but I though after 2.1 this should have been way better now. Do they actually do anything at Nival except for drinking vodka. Perhaps the AI reflects their own personality
OK, I am frustrated since they haven't been able to make a better AI since Heroes II which is increadible. I didn't know of the broken AI though, but for a company like Nival not to have backups Thats way beyond anything! Let the japanese take over next time.

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted March 19, 2007 09:14 AM

"Team selection in the side selection screen -- Very low probability" by Nival.

Which means, they either have no computer programmers there (but have vodka programmers) or simply they are too dumb to figure how such a feature can be implemented.

as for the programming side, yeah I'm a programmers myself and I know how hard this is.

excuse my sarcasm

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dschingi
dschingi


Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
posted March 19, 2007 09:36 AM

I have the impression that the AI in 2.1 is much better than before. Still there are some annoying things, but nearly all of them belong to the "adventure" part. The combat AI seems to be ok except sometimes the usage of heroes' skills is ... not very smart. Naturally there are and there always will be ways to trick the AI.
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open source for an open mind

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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted March 19, 2007 09:54 AM

Implicit in these discussions is the idea that A.I. in Heroes has been better before.  And yet I find playing the older games is that many of these same problems exist.  For example it is no surprise in Heroes 2 to watch enemy heroes shuffle back and forth or get on and off a boat wasting two turns.  Heroes 3 and 5 both open up the castle gates instead of turtling during castles siege...I haven't enough experience with 4 to say the problems...

So the answer, as you say in the first post, is to play against real people.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.

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executor
executor


Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
posted March 19, 2007 12:13 PM
Edited by executor at 14:07, 19 Mar 2007.

Another examples(very stupid):
1. I played against AI, which had mixed army. It's most powerful stack were Archliches, about 100(they were by far most powerful). I fought this AI hero, he did not bring them into battle(had 6 large units). The second most powerful stack were 9 archangels... And he placed 23 wraiths on the battlefield... As I defeated him, it occured, that he had the Unicorn Horn Bow. If he had placed the Archliches, I would have lost the battle, as I did not have much surviving army...
2. An enemy hero was heading towards my town. Then he stopped, waited 5-6 turns doing nothing, then attacked me. I was short of money, so he gave me chance of buying creatures... LOL

1. was on heroic, 2. on hard, both version 1.4
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Understanding is a three-edged sword.

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted March 19, 2007 12:17 PM

Actually, AI is so pathetic that I never consider playing vs. CPU. Geez, if I had only the possiblity to play vs AI, I would rather play vs. myself

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Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted March 19, 2007 12:48 PM
Edited by Darkeye at 12:48, 19 Mar 2007.

It's simply a tragedy Like building a house with no structure.
Can't really understand what Ubisoft has done. Bought 3DO with the Heroes series, let Nival develop a game were it seem they've only been thinking graphics and 3D modelling, and let the most important aspect of the game - the strategy and game itself been underdeveloped. No to mention all the bugs It's sad.

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HoMaM
HoMaM


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted March 22, 2007 10:32 AM

Well yes i guess that all of us we play homm and not only,we want a better AI so it's be more difficult and in order to have our game a meaning.But this is only one side of AI.
The other side and most important i think of AI is the unclaimed war between AI and human intelligence.That's a very good example that we can win machines.So keep your heads up and yell ALL:NO WE WON'T BE SLAVES OF THE F*CKIN MACHINES.WE ARE BETTER WE ARE CLEVERER THAN THEM!
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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted March 22, 2007 11:05 AM

Well, Casparov found it hard and he was pretty damn smart!
You are probably joking but I'd rather the AI was a bit superior than me compared to what it is now and no cheating. At least it would provide a good challenge and I'd strive to become a better player. Well, I'd strive more anyway
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Hellwitch
Hellwitch


Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
posted March 23, 2007 04:36 AM

Quote:
Well yes i guess that all of us we play homm and not only,we want a better AI so it's be more difficult and in order to have our game a meaning.But this is only one side of AI.
The other side and most important i think of AI is the unclaimed war between AI and human intelligence.That's a very good example that we can win machines.So keep your heads up and yell ALL:NO WE WON'T BE SLAVES OF THE F*CKIN MACHINES.WE ARE BETTER WE ARE CLEVERER THAN THEM!



. Well there is no such thing as A.I. It is only only abstract. The "intellect" of the machine is the real intellect of the programmer who wrote the decision taking algorithms. If the program has better algorithms it will have better Artificial "intelegence".

And for the Homm5 AI. IMO it is very bad. And even more bad when compared to Civilization 4, and it is looking even more ugly and stupid compared to Galactic Civilization 2 .
So Ubi and Nival must take the AI as a serious task or this title(homm5) will be blown by it's compatitors in TBS ganre.

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dschingi
dschingi


Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
posted March 23, 2007 06:06 AM

Quote:
The "intellect" of the machine is the real intellect of the programmer who wrote the decision taking algorithms.

In case of H5 and most other games this is true, but once the programmer gives an AI the ability to learn, to make decisions out of experience, the AI can easily be smarter than the programmer...
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open source for an open mind

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ZeroXcuses
ZeroXcuses


Known Hero
posted March 26, 2007 11:26 AM

As you can see, I put H5 down because of the AI

Yeah, as you can see by my account stats, I gave up on Heroes 5 until they improve the AI. I never played multiplayer except for hotseat, and if the AI is stupid, there's no reason for someone like me to play the game at all.

If they don't fix it, H5 will continue to be a coaster around my house.

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted March 26, 2007 11:36 AM

But the game was always meant for MP... geeez, it's like playing quake or CS solo.. it's just wrong

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Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted March 26, 2007 12:16 PM

That's still no excuse for shafting those who prefer singe-player.

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executor
executor


Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
posted March 26, 2007 01:30 PM

I agree, most games designed especially for multiplayer have good single with decent bots(shooters)/CPU players(strategies), UT for instance. And since HoMM 5 is not a multi-only-designed game, It should have better AI. Good CPU players are an interesteing addition to multiplayer, when you get bored of duels/XvX. Players may play cooperative vs CPU(moderately empowered) as well, that's fun if AI is OK.
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Understanding is a three-edged sword.

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Beowolf
Beowolf


Adventuring Hero
posted March 26, 2007 01:54 PM
Edited by Beowolf at 14:01, 26 Mar 2007.

I dont know, if it is the stupidity of AI, but creeps seem to "favour" some units while attacking, meaning they will go after certain creatures no matter what. Here's an example - I play Inferno quite a lot and I find it funny, when creeps attack gated imps while having "real" troops (like horned demons) within walking range. I usualy pick Grok so I tend to abuse it to minimalize losses during early creeping. I'm quite sure that with other castles this looks similar. There seems to be also something wrong with the blood maidens/ furies. When there is only one stack of those to kill, and it has some ranged stack in range, they will go forward and block it instead of attacking.
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