Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Secrets of destruction revealed - playing Dungeon faction
Thread: Secrets of destruction revealed - playing Dungeon faction This thread is 61 pages long: 1 10 20 ... 29 30 31 32 33 ... 40 50 60 61 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 01, 2008 05:05 AM

The basic idea is creep like crazy Build stalkers and start creeping, then chain furies with a secondary. Aim is expert destructive, then secrets of destruction->ignite(I get fireball pretty often) and enlightenment when it pops up. Have used this many times and I can creep hordes of tier 3/lots of tier 4 week 1 with some leveling. Of course the spell you get through secrets of destruction will determine how easy it will be for you just as how many stats will go to your spellpower and how many to your attack that you do not want.

Only advice I can offer is what samiekl told me, play let's fight until you manage to kill all hordes of tier 3 that guard the mines in the first week. By end of week 2 you can have lvl 17 though there are many units to fight.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jukeboxhero
Jukeboxhero


Adventuring Hero
posted January 01, 2008 07:23 AM

Quote:
The basic idea is creep like crazy Build stalkers and start creeping, then chain furies with a secondary. Aim is expert destructive, then secrets of destruction->ignite(I get fireball pretty often) and enlightenment when it pops up. Have used this many times and I can creep hordes of tier 3/lots of tier 4 week 1 with some leveling. Of course the spell you get through secrets of destruction will determine how easy it will be for you just as how many stats will go to your spellpower and how many to your attack that you do not want.

Only advice I can offer is what samiekl told me, play let's fight until you manage to kill all hordes of tier 3 that guard the mines in the first week. By end of week 2 you can have lvl 17 though there are many units to fight.



Yeah, you're right Elvin. I think I should do some practice in Single player until I can handle Warlocks better.
I was actually going to ask you about a good "Creeping" practice map, and I guess that would be it.
Also, that way I can do infinite reloads until I find a method that works for me, without bugging people with questions about what to do or asking someone for a reload because I screwed up day 1, week 1.


Overall, I think I like Dungeon quite a bit, as well as Sylvan and Fortress...but I think I'll focus on Stronghold in Multiplayer for now, they seem to be the easiest and definetly my favorite so far.


p.s. One last thing. When you said "Samiekl told me" do you mean what he told you to before you learned warlock? or what he told you about me and this particular game? I just found it ironic you mentioned Sami, because he's the one I'm playing agaisnt, who's 13 while I'm level 3.




 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted January 01, 2008 07:27 AM

Well Samiekl seems to be a terrific player (of about any faction).  So don't feel too bad, I am sure a lot of others have faced that situation (ie them low level and Samiekl high level).  Hehe need to practice with people like me who are just learning MP for Tote also.  My strategies may be pretty good most of the time, but mostly just commonsense things and thinking outside the box (still don't see a box, but people assure me it's there).  
____________
Message received.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Edwin_Yang
Edwin_Yang


Known Hero
posted January 01, 2008 07:32 AM
Edited by Edwin_Yang at 07:38, 01 Jan 2008.

er..for me I'd like to build scouts and maidens as soon as possible.(because I use Sinitar so I would not bothered about the magic).But with Yrwanna I sitll suggest bulid the magic guild after that you upgrade the scouts and maidens.as I said , if you found the swamill or the ore pit was garded by spirit or somthing dangerous.you can use the third hero in the tarven.then I will go for the townhall,market,trade guild.then the hydras...

for the hero buiding.I play a little differently with Elvin.most cases I will not take any perks of desructive magic unless I am in badly need of knowledge.you can put the skill points to socerer,logistics or enlightmet.I think Arcane training and Erratic Mana are much more useful.
and if you are intend to play a rush...dont forget Aecane Exellence which provide you 2 spellpower and 100 extra mana a time.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 01, 2008 12:35 PM

@Jukebox
No he's the one that helped me re-learn dungeon and that was one of his first advice. He knows that hints can take you far but the rest is up to personal experience.

@Edwin
You misunderstood, I will take those skills but only after enlightenment and secrets and it has made a major change in my earlygame strength.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
godlyatheist
godlyatheist


Adventuring Hero
posted January 18, 2008 05:52 AM bonus applied.
Edited by godlyatheist at 06:27, 18 Jan 2008.

Is it just me or that maiden upgrades are completely unnecessary? When I'm creeping slow walkers the initiative from maidens is enough for me to lame them. Against faster creeps I just go stealth and leave out the maidens. Maybe this doesn't work when it's against hero but to me maiden upgrade is a waste of crystals against creeps. I'd rather spend that crystal towards a lvl3 aoe spell.

Also, destructive perks are pretty much useless. Cold death is the only thing I use 99% of the time to siege utopias faster. Secrets of destruction used to be my staple skill but nowadays I just feel it's not a priority; perhaps I'm lucky with leveling.

My core build is now

Exp Destructive
Exp Sorcery
Adv Enlightment - Intelligence, Arcane Intuition
Adv Logistics - Scouting, Swift Mind
Empowered Spell

Thats a total of 15 skill points so theoretically you can get it by lvl 13, which isn't hard. The justification is the following. Exp DM is no brainer. Enlightment for stat and mana. Arcane Intuition is a great prereq for Swift mind because it allows you to learn spells like ice bolt, circle of winter, fireball, lightning bolt if you didn't get them. Just sacrifice one or two maiden when fighting against those casters. Also, it allows you to see what artifacts the enemy has so you know what protection he is using. Logistics allows you to creep more and set up hit n' runs from farther away. Scouting is an amazing combo w/ logistics since you can see more. This allows to spot artifacts and enemies earlier. Empowered spell is no brainer too. Swift Mind is too good to not have. You can increase your dmg output by a huge margin. Combined with stalkers it's possible to have 4-6 free casts against giant neutral stacks if you got exp sorcery.

Second tier perks and schools are:
Arcane training, erratic mana, Arcane Excellence
Master of ice, cold death
Wizards reward
A. training is always welcome, but not crucial. Just 1 point of knowledge will give more mana than that you save from most spell. Erratic mana is more cheap spells, which is certainly good; however you really shouldn't/want to cast many times to be able to win. Getting more sp to make each spell count more is way better. Arcane excellence is a great perk, +2 sp and 100 instant mana. Very good for creeping when you are low and you can get it at levelup. If the game keeps giving me sorcery perks then I'd take it. BUT, exp sorcery is better simply because more casts = more dmg while cheaper casts doesn't increase dmg. Cold death is situational and only if you got cold spells. This perk is strictly early game when ice bolt/circle does more dmg than lightning/fire. Wizards reward is good, but not crucial to the core build

Third tier perks and schools:
Soldier's luck and its requirements
Exp Luck - Soldier's luck, magic resistance, warlocks luck

It seems that TotE made the chance of warlocks luck showing up a lot lower or something. Every time i get all the prereq and have to wait till like 5 lvls til lvl 18-20 before it gives it to me. Luck on its own is pretty useless since the warlocks might depends almost exclusively on the hero.

Thoughts or comments? This is strictly used for faster creeping by focusing on maximazing dmg(invisibility is simply broken when used against ai logic). I dono how well it works against people since I never palyed against one(never found anyone to play with).

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ceres
Ceres


Supreme Hero
and sweetness
posted January 18, 2008 06:04 AM

Hmm... me neither.  Before I do use Maidens upgrade for creeping but not now.  I just use stalkers all the way.
____________
And when the stars fall, I
will lie awake. You're my
shooting star.


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted January 18, 2008 06:23 AM

You gotta be kidding. You couldn't find use of "no enemy retaliation" ability? Most slow walkers you can creep any way you like, but are you gonna go head to head maidens vs squires, given Dungeon's growth? I don't think you can always depend on stalkers' invisibility, especially early game with limited speel power and knowledge. Soon you'll run out of mana (wanna waste a day for Dark Ritual?), so at some points in the game you've to go might as well and that has to be done efficiently.
____________
But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
godlyatheist
godlyatheist


Adventuring Hero
posted January 18, 2008 06:34 AM

Quote:
You gotta be kidding. You couldn't find use of "no enemy retaliation" ability? Most slow walkers you can creep any way you like, but are you gonna go head to head maidens vs squires, given Dungeon's growth? I don't think you can always depend on stalkers' invisibility, especially early game with limited speel power and knowledge. Soon you'll run out of mana (wanna waste a day for Dark Ritual?), so at some points in the game you've to go might as well and that has to be done efficiently.


Squires count as slow walkers in my book. As long as there's 3 or less stack it's perfectly safe unless they get double morale(very very rare). Besides, you're screwed if they get double morale whether you have maiden or furies. Also, I do not engage hordes of squires the first few days cuz it's suicide(maybe im not good enough). Also, i have found absolute zero instances for using dark ritual.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted January 18, 2008 06:58 AM

They are, I didn't disagree. The point was, they're heavy damage dealers even slow walkers. So why the maidens should take their retaliation?

There are maps where you've to walk a looong way from home with no well around. In such a case you'll be forced to use Dark Ritual. But true, this is a rare occassion.

Empowered spell is not no brainer, please... I beg to differ  Maybe against creeps, since you have to preserve mana. But it's one of key victories for Warlocks.
____________
But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
godlyatheist
godlyatheist


Adventuring Hero
posted January 18, 2008 09:00 AM
Edited by godlyatheist at 09:04, 18 Jan 2008.

Since when does creeping with maiden requires them to take any dmg? I never buy any maiden except the 3 or 9(yrwanna) i start with. You just put down a single maiden and have the hero lame them to death.  There's a little risk with 3 stacks of enemy but it's doable 90% of the time. 4 stacks is a different story

Quote:
Empowered spell is not no brainer, please... I beg to differ   Maybe against creeps, since you have to preserve mana. But it's one of key victories for Warlocks.

You seem to have misunderstood me. I meant that empowered spells is part of the core build so it is a key to victory for warlock. There are some creeps that u just have to empower them before your invisibility is up(think 175 titans).

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted January 18, 2008 10:19 AM

I see. Seemed that we engaged in wrong direction of conversation  Ofc in scenarios like you described we might not need furies, I was considering more general situations like horde of squires or 3 stacks or when morale triggered. Having furies allows you to alternate between going might and magic in light of mana management. But yeah, crystal reqs are critical for dungeons.

Anyway, overall I like the core build you outlined in your 1st post. Nice insight for Arcane Intuition, never explored that though, as personally I prefer Intelligence + Scholar en route to Mentoring. Imagine you have several warlocks at high levels, no need for hit and run, just hit and die like suicide bombers before your main approaches
____________
But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 18, 2008 10:56 AM
Edited by Elvin at 11:23, 18 Jan 2008.

@godlyatheist
Agreed on the most part except a few things.
Who cares about cold death, I could win 35 emeralds week 2 on let's fight and that takes mana and secrets of destruction as a failsafe for getting a firespell if you guild does not oblige you. Btw I would not have won if not for ignite that also requires secrets.
Also in my last several games I get lvl3 spell from secrets if I have gotten exp destructive first and my hero is close to lvl 8. Not sure if it's a coincidence though.
Furies right after stalkers are a must. They are your cheap way for easy leveling against hordes of minotaurs, golems, squires, warmongers etc when your mana reserves are low in the first few days. Creatures with speed 5 and multiple morale can cause you casualties, but if they are with speed 4 nothing to worry about. I have killed 60 squires with 8 furies and they got often morale, sometimes two consecutive ones. Not sure about the new upgrades, I value the initiative. Sometimes moving and having one more attack before you flee to another spot can make or break your game.
I always get some of those stacks and if you don't get furies early you'll regret it later.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted January 18, 2008 11:20 AM

Quote:
Btw I would not have won if not for ignite that also requires cold death.


You mean Secrets
____________
But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 18, 2008 11:23 AM

Yes wouldn't make much sense otherwise Edited.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
godlyatheist
godlyatheist


Adventuring Hero
posted January 18, 2008 09:02 PM
Edited by godlyatheist at 21:09, 18 Jan 2008.

Advice taken. I will be trying furies + secrets again to see how much it improves my warlock in TotE. I'll also explore mentoring too. From the experience table a lvl20 warlock can mentor a pretty strong secondary while not needing a lot of fighting.

About ignite: I have a very hard time getting fireball so thats why i skipped it. Also, I'm pretty lucky with stats so most of the time I have enough mana.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 19, 2008 01:21 AM

Yes but ignite also works with firewall, chances are you'll get a fire spell in your guild two out of three times.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted January 19, 2008 03:37 AM

The strongest argument for Cold Death is when you know you're going up against a War Machinist.  Otherwise, 11 times out of 10 you're better off going the Ignite route with your Lock.  Secrets is so damn precious to this town it isn't even funny.  That +2 to knowledge, coupled with the +1 that you build makes all the difference in the world.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 26, 2008 09:49 PM

uhhh. ToTe sure changed things.

First of all, I'm very sad to say it's not good to aim for warlock's luck anymore. As much as I love this skill, you need 7 completely worthless (for a standard magical killer) pre-requisites to get it!! By taking them, you'll probably end up not having enlightment or logistics, both of which are extremely important.

Logistics may not be very good combat-wise, but it gives you aditional creeping speed, improves the number of visited objects per game and is simply THE skill to pick asap when facing rough terrain. Without logistics+pathfinding, you will be very very slow everywhere but on grass or roads.

There are certain skills related to logistics that can help. Pathfinding is situational - but useful most of the time (helps underground, too). Warpath is great when rushing - you creep AND advance at the same time. Against inferno or sylvan, you WILL want to take swift mind - with that skill you will most likely act before familiars and prevent at least 50% of enemy's mana drain (if he was clever enough to split them - most player don't even bother.). It will also enable you to safely get rid of arcane archers.

Most of the time you don't need all of those - when rushing, pick warpath. When the game takes longer, you may want swift mind instead.

The enlightment is as important as always - an interesting point is to pick graduate right after intelligence for a free +2 knowledge. Works as another secrets of destruction and more mana is always welcome. +1000 exp is not bad too, especially with yrwanna, since she can take this skill very early in the game. Later on, after finishing your "main" build, you can pick wizard's reward too - extra spellpower is always handy.

As for sorcery, you no longer need the worthless mana regen to get erratic mana - great. Along with arcane training, they are great perks to prolong your casting.

Finally, destructive - well, master of storms is pretty worthless, master of ice - good only if you plan to use cold death, and master of fire - generally worthless, but ignite and secrets are great skills to have. Up to you.

It takes "only" a sinitar level 18 to have all the necessary skills to become a great hero. A shame you no longer can get warlock's luck fast, though. But there is simply no room for extra 8 levelups to get it. Sorry.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 26, 2008 10:36 PM

I just had an online game of dungeon(Sinitar) vs inferno(Grok) on battle for honor. First thing I got was enlightenment and then logistics. My creeping was not that fast considering secrets of destruction gave circle of winter instead of a fire spell but on week 3 I was back to town to learn fireball that actually won the game. For the first time I was glad to get dark revelation as it gave me the chance to get swift mind just before I broke through the titans - I tend to assume that my opponent will break as fast as possible and I even was a few days late - but also scouting because when you break with a few stalkers you want to know if the enemy is in sight.

First thing I did was get the armour of forgotten hero, summon the units that I had sent with caravan to my second town and upgrade. Then I broke through his archdevils and we fought on week 4 day 6.
Swift mind got me the chance to fireball the familiars first - nice suggestion to split btw! - and after some time only my 8 acidic hydras and his 11 succubi mistresses remained on the battlefield at which time he fled.

With 14 power he kept casting CotN He had the cloak of sylanna and bearhilde wraps but ignite and the phoenix cape was enough. Also I used the split stalkers as a goblin's trap to avoid my hydras being hit by the hellhounds. I was surprised to see he had defense with luck but no warmachines, I guess it helped against my grim raiders. As a comment this **** armor only resisted a mass slow on my furies, all the rest hit me.

Eventually I charged towards his town stopping only a few steps away from it. He attacked me with next week's army that I obliterated with an empowered armageddon along with my remaining hydras And that was all I needed, he could not rehire.

That game was made much easier with logistics and by breaking faster I got sorcery in the middle Intelligence and secrets of destruction/ignite are all you need in creeping and logistics complements them nicely, you need it to attack as soon as you can. Of course if I was not lucky enough to get it the right moment the final battle would be a lot closer, that's where sorcery pays off.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 61 pages long: 1 10 20 ... 29 30 31 32 33 ... 40 50 60 61 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0660 seconds