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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Secrets of destruction revealed - playing Dungeon faction
Thread: Secrets of destruction revealed - playing Dungeon faction [ This thread is 61 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 (13) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 ]
PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted October 31, 2007 06:55 PM

I took a quick look at the skill wheel and I saw that the warlock can now get preparation...it might give you time to cut down the numbers of the enemy...but it requires defense(obviously) and attack->tactics.  Probably not a great option.

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted October 31, 2007 07:03 PM

Preparation no, its not good. i take attack tactics only to counter his tactics, but that's not so efficient 'cause even if he's not getting the bonus from tactics he has that perk that gives +x speed when fighting in the grass...

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ismail222
ismail222


Known Hero
The Cataclysm
posted October 31, 2007 07:15 PM

deffence =2% chance will prolly never happen,and prepration is a nice skill but lil explosives aka metnored heroes + aramageddon with last stand just sounds lovely ^.^
____________
Ppl griveing,Ppl
Deceving,Ppl lying,Ppl dying
One Word : Life

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 31, 2007 08:01 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 20:03, 31 Oct 2007.

I wish i could help you but i dont play warcloks on such maps(i generally dont like this kind of maps, 2 castle, long games maps). 2 castle maps support might factions like sylvan and its very difficult for warlocks who dont have any defense. Id only play warlocks on this kind of map is i get them being random. I guess that my best bet would be to get defense and some might skills. Destructive is prety pathetic after month or 2 when each player has 2 castles, so is summoning. Maybe id try to get dark magic and try to make use of that spell shop in the middle. Anyway, i wouldnt be very happy about that matchup on such map.

Mentoring + Armageddon is a viable strategy on such maps.
____________

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted October 31, 2007 08:07 PM

i break on lets fight and hourglass week 5... my destruction shouldnt be pathetic then... if i have the chance to cast once...
tried once with mentoring, still no good... my units are dead before they act or hero casts.

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted October 31, 2007 08:26 PM

no wonder.. sylvan is very strong in ToTe.. on pair with academy, I'd say. If you can't reach them quickly, dungeon isn't your best bet.I have really no advice, too.

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted October 31, 2007 08:41 PM

I was thinking about getting lethos. his ability + corrupted soil might do a little damage. But... how much damage can his ability + corrupted soil do at, lets say lvl 25? And, is his ability affected by luck in any way?

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted October 31, 2007 08:46 PM

nope its not affected by warlock's luck

you can eventually do 32+8* power damage per turn to all stacks, not too much if you ask me..

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted October 31, 2007 08:52 PM

Huh... interesting, it actually could work. At lvl 25 i have at least 25 spellpower, so its almost 300 damage at the start of combat. Should prevent those sprites to kill 2-3 stacks from the first strike.

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted October 31, 2007 09:03 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 21:04, 31 Oct 2007.

maybe you can try swift mind and several fodderstacks. Unless you're totally out of luck,you should be able to act before all of them are dead, implode the sprites or hunters to oblivion and run. They are fragile so you should do well without arties if you fear you may lose them. Furies work well here, since they have high init (better chance that you can run right after casting the spell)

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Arxur
Arxur


Adventuring Hero
posted October 31, 2007 09:52 PM

Is Sylvan really that good in ToE?

I can't wait buy it... That's a pity, that it isn't sold in our country yet...

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted October 31, 2007 10:05 PM

yes it is

I've faced their "first turn attack" once with haven and hardly anything  survived - and it wasn't a weak force. I had 20 paladins, for instance.

Lucky crystal drags killed half of my army at start, followed by arcane archers who ohkoed paladins (luck+force arrow..). There was hardly anything left when corns moved on.

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted November 01, 2007 11:46 AM

But dont all factions have the same problem against sylvan? I mean... Heaven is slow, powerful but slow... They might get to act, but they will be too crippled to do something... Inferno's troops are too fragile, maybe nightmares will act first, but that's not gonna save them. Plus, sylvan is much more better in rushing than inferno. Necro... goodbye. Wizards may stand a chance with + initiative mini artifcats. But they wont afford this artifact on most of their creatures. Dwarves have high defense and they seem the only ones that could withstand first attack and have chances to win. Orcs have great potential too, but i have to find a way to break those powerful guards with minimal losses.
I cant believe that in tote they actually added 1 point of init to that 2nd lvl indian. Now lvl 1 and lvl 2 units can actually finish off 6 stacks, cause they dont die during the creeping process.


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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted November 01, 2007 11:52 AM

you can still rush them easily to death within first 2-3 weeks.. Sylvan isn't a threat in first weeks, unless someone really good plays it (sq79? )

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted November 01, 2007 11:58 AM

Rush them? with such powerful guards??? its impossible. The player im having trouble with is buxyrs, if you know him. He's got 6-0 . He's impossible (for me) to defeat on those maps.

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted November 01, 2007 12:00 PM

IMO, to break something strong fast with warlocks it's best to:
1. Level up Yrwanna - that may mean taking exp summoning(depends on spells: fire trap, phoenix). So, her basic build would look like: empowered spells, enlightenment, exp summoning, exp destructive. Then maybe log for swift mind but most likely sorcery would be better.
2. Once Yrwanna is leveled up it's time to use mentoring on fresh warlocks so that they get exp destructive, enl -> intelligence.
3. Then use the whole band of warlocks to hit and run the block.

About late game haven vs sylvan.
1. As haven if possible don't fight a ranger main hero on grass.
2. It's crucial for haven to take exp defense. Vitality can't be wrong, stand your ground + preparation is very good for squires and conscripts guarding marksmen/xbows. Paladins' (not vulnerable champions) durability is very crucial too: more survive the hit(s) and they retaliate with counterstrike bonus.
3. Making a strong pala powerstack is the key: sylvan has to strike overgrowthed exp defense palas somehow. So, they won't be too happy about suffering strong retals.
4. Swift mind is great because it will most likely allow a knight to divine guidance xbows before arcane(11 init is annoying) archers shoot. Alternatively, fast(hero has starting 13.3(3)+ initiative) casting of mass endurance/RM/haste will help a lot - fighting sylvan is all about surviving the first strike.
5. -1 speed and -1 initiative from storm wind can be very evil vs sprites and emeralds.

So, a late game anti-sylvan knight should look like:
Klaus with storm wind, swift mind, preparation, retribution and enlightenment/divine guidance.

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted November 01, 2007 12:14 PM

You might be right with heaven (i dont play heaven, im too bored of them . i didnt play them in h3 either), but you're wrong with dungeon. Summoning  its useless vs sylvan. Its good for creeping of course and fighting those guards, but destruction does the job the same (or even better) in creeping. Swift mind and mentoring cannot be both taken with warlocks. Mentoring some heroes to get swift mind is very hard (exp enlightenment + eagle eye + logistics + swift mind, + exp destruction to make good use of those secondaries as you need to finish off a stack with every secondary. Plus, you may want some destruction perks too). Only if you're extremely lucky (i'm not) you can get all those with a secondary. And you need at least 4 secondaries

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted November 01, 2007 12:50 PM

I mean enl + destructive + summoning > enl + destructive + sorcery for creeping. Yes, exp summoning is useless vs sylvan but sorcery doesn't shine either - the 1st(most important cast) is not affected.

Those mentored warlocks with swift mind would be indeed very useful for hit and runs. Still, maybe a mentored barbarian would be interesting - he+his might stats+his might skills+main dungeon army could damage sylvan army much better than any warlock. It still looks hopeless but not that much

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted November 01, 2007 01:21 PM

Summoning is useless. Sorcery is a must. You dont need sorcery that much for creeping either, but you dont need anything besides destructive for that. stalkers mean 4 free spells. Summoning is not a viable choice anymore for warlocks in tote, only against barbarians who cant afford taking 2 shatter magic skills. Warlock's build should always be destructive enlightenment and sorcery. the 2 spots remaining are for luck, logistics, attack. i always pick logistics and luck. Warlocks troops cant stand much, so you have to destroy you're enemy as fast as you can. Summoning is not for that.

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Legendary_Hero
Legendary_Hero


Known Hero
Stronghold Warchief
posted November 02, 2007 07:13 AM

I think summoning is only for wizards and maybe necros(but i prefer to take destructive with cold death)

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